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Secondary Archtypes!

JindoshiJindoshi Member
in General Discussion
I was just looking at the new classes page on here and saw the secondary archtypes.
This is really awesome, I didn't know that was a feature in this game.
It will be so fun to combine your primary class with another class to create a whole new type of class! The options seem endless and will add a lot of fun variety to the game. Are secondary archtypes going to be available in Alpha 2?

Thanks,
Jindoshi

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I think you should study this site, considering you've been on the forums since over a year ago :)
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes

    And classes will be somewhere in Phase 3 of A2.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 21
    In addition to the insightful reply above mine, the intent of the devs is for secondary archetypes to merely “add flavor”.

    In other words, there aren’t going to be 64 distinct classes in Ashes of Creation.

    On the bright side, Intrepid has been able to under-promise and over-deliver in other areas of the game.

    So, it’s a wait and see approach when we get into the rollout of the secondary archetypes (Phase III of Alpha-2 is next summer 2025).
  • AlmostDeadAlmostDead Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 21
    Taleof2Cities wrote: »
    In addition to the insightful reply above mine, the intent of the devs is for secondary archetypes to merely “add flavor”.

    In other words, there aren’t going to be 64 distinct classes in Ashes of Creation.

    On the bright side, Intrepid has been able to under-promise and over-deliver in other areas of the game.

    So, it’s a wait and see approach when we get into the rollout of the secondary archetypes (Phase III of Alpha-2 is next summer 2025).

    I don't know why so many long time supporters of Ashes of Creation keep repeating this well debunked line of nonsense that the secondary archetypes "merely add flavor." It has been refuted many times over the years, including multiple times by Steven himself.

    In fact, here is a quote from Steven, just 8 days ago:
    "It's not just flavor. The potential is that some of these abilities fundamentally change. However, it's also capable that some of it is flavor changes. But that is left in the hands of the player. How do they want to either stray away from their original archetype, or how do they want to change the flavor of it."

    "Our intent is to execute on it where it doesn't just feel like 8 achetypes."

    8 days ago. From Steven.

    And yet this is just too hard to accept from so many people. When it domes to how Ashes is being developed, Steven probably has more credibility than these naysayers.

    f9bynlyxe9mg.png
  • Wizard085Wizard085 Member, Alpha Two
    Secondary archetypes will most likely be one of the last things implemented into the game before launch. My only comparison to go off of would be ESO, but there was a lot of flavor change when choosing secondary options for already existing abilities.
    ZAdp89w.png[/center]
  • CarlisleCarlisle Member, Alpha Two
    Taleof2Cities wrote: »
    In addition to the insightful reply above mine, the intent of the devs is for secondary archetypes to merely “add flavor”.

    In other words, there aren’t going to be 64 distinct classes in Ashes of Creation.

    On the bright side, Intrepid has been able to under-promise and over-deliver in other areas of the game.

    So, it’s a wait and see approach when we get into the rollout of the secondary archetypes (Phase III of Alpha-2 is next summer 2025).

    Thats not true. Steven just said some skills will literally completely change. (Some days ago)
  • warlordthetankwarlordthetank Member
    I think they are first working on getting the other classes done before starting with the secondary class so it's all wait and see.
  • crusaduruscrusadurus Member, Alpha Two
    I wish we would get some more info what what we will gain from the secondary class, but i agree making the base classes work has to come first. The classes look so fun that picking a main class will already be hard, and then all the sub class options...
  • BackgroundDustBackgroundDust Member, Alpha Two
    AlmostDead wrote: »
    why so many long time supporters of Ashes of Creation keep repeating this well debunked line of nonsense that the secondary archetypes "merely add flavor."

    Because what Arche Age's secondary archetype gives you is a way to truly make you character they way you like. What AoC offers is a 'flavor' by most definitions.

    Has to be said that maybe over a month ago Steve said their testers report that there is enough choice between weapon and skills augments and other stuff that overall it feels like you can shape your character to your playstyle enough.

    We have to play the game to know how we feel about the current system.
  • CarlisleCarlisle Member, Alpha Two
    BackgroundDust wrote: »
    AlmostDead wrote: »
    why so many long time supporters of Ashes of Creation keep repeating this well debunked line of nonsense that the secondary archetypes "merely add flavor."

    Because what Arche Age's secondary archetype gives you is a way to truly make you character they way you like. What AoC offers is a 'flavor' by most definitions.

    Has to be said that maybe over a month ago Steve said their testers report that there is enough choice between weapon and skills augments and other stuff that overall it feels like you can shape your character to your playstyle enough.

    We have to play the game to know how we feel about the current system.

    Its not just flavor, Steven is constantly telling us that some skills will change 90% of the base skill, some others 50% or less. do not spread information without check it out first
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    Carlisle wrote: »
    Thats not true. Steven just said some skills will literally completely change. (Some days ago)

    OK, I stand corrected, thank you. ;)
  • crusaduruscrusadurus Member, Alpha Two
    Carlisle wrote: »
    BackgroundDust wrote: »
    AlmostDead wrote: »
    why so many long time supporters of Ashes of Creation keep repeating this well debunked line of nonsense that the secondary archetypes "merely add flavor."

    Because what Arche Age's secondary archetype gives you is a way to truly make you character they way you like. What AoC offers is a 'flavor' by most definitions.

    Has to be said that maybe over a month ago Steve said their testers report that there is enough choice between weapon and skills augments and other stuff that overall it feels like you can shape your character to your playstyle enough.

    We have to play the game to know how we feel about the current system.

    Its not just flavor, Steven is constantly telling us that some skills will change 90% of the base skill, some others 50% or less. do not spread information without check it out first

    Wow some will change 90%? Unless this is like only a couple total thats wild. I totally thought it was just partly flavor but mostly just do your skill and 1 extra thing like another type of damage or a buff.
    Dont blame people for assuming this as imagine how much freaking work it will be to do MORE than just adding X considering the total skill combinations in this game. Each class prob has like 20 ish skills so if theres 4 options per skill and 8 classes so 640 combinations to consider per class so 5120 total (aprox) skill combos to consider. I assume not all skills can be modified and not all will accept every type of option from each class but even if my math was double thats still alot.
    Kinda makes sense its not ingame yet lol.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The concept of "just flavor" is way too subjective.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    AlmostDead wrote: »
    Taleof2Cities wrote: »
    In addition to the insightful reply above mine, the intent of the devs is for secondary archetypes to merely “add flavor”.

    In other words, there aren’t going to be 64 distinct classes in Ashes of Creation.

    On the bright side, Intrepid has been able to under-promise and over-deliver in other areas of the game.

    So, it’s a wait and see approach when we get into the rollout of the secondary archetypes (Phase III of Alpha-2 is next summer 2025).

    I don't know why so many long time supporters of Ashes of Creation keep repeating this well debunked line of nonsense that the secondary archetypes "merely add flavor." It has been refuted many times over the years, including multiple times by Steven himself.

    In fact, here is a quote from Steven, just 8 days ago:
    "It's not just flavor. The potential is that some of these abilities fundamentally change. However, it's also capable that some of it is flavor changes. But that is left in the hands of the player. How do they want to either stray away from their original archetype, or how do they want to change the flavor of it."

    "Our intent is to execute on it where it doesn't just feel like 8 achetypes."

    8 days ago. From Steven.

    And yet this is just too hard to accept from so many people. When it domes to how Ashes is being developed, Steven probably has more credibility than these naysayers.

    f9bynlyxe9mg.png

    That's what I've been saying for years... People have gotten pretty mad about it.

    I'm still holding out hope that the secondary system can be strong enough to shift the roles of your character.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    crusadurus wrote: »
    Carlisle wrote: »
    BackgroundDust wrote: »
    AlmostDead wrote: »
    why so many long time supporters of Ashes of Creation keep repeating this well debunked line of nonsense that the secondary archetypes "merely add flavor."

    Because what Arche Age's secondary archetype gives you is a way to truly make you character they way you like. What AoC offers is a 'flavor' by most definitions.

    Has to be said that maybe over a month ago Steve said their testers report that there is enough choice between weapon and skills augments and other stuff that overall it feels like you can shape your character to your playstyle enough.

    We have to play the game to know how we feel about the current system.

    Its not just flavor, Steven is constantly telling us that some skills will change 90% of the base skill, some others 50% or less. do not spread information without check it out first

    Wow some will change 90%? Unless this is like only a couple total thats wild. I totally thought it was just partly flavor but mostly just do your skill and 1 extra thing like another type of damage or a buff.
    Dont blame people for assuming this as imagine how much freaking work it will be to do MORE than just adding X considering the total skill combinations in this game. Each class prob has like 20 ish skills so if theres 4 options per skill and 8 classes so 640 combinations to consider per class so 5120 total (aprox) skill combos to consider. I assume not all skills can be modified and not all will accept every type of option from each class but even if my math was double thats still alot.
    Kinda makes sense its not ingame yet lol.

    That's not new, Steven said that years ago too that "some augments may completely change and ability"
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Jindoshi wrote: »
    It will be so fun to combine your primary class with another class to create a whole new type of class !

    Regarding this completely new type of Class-thingy.


    Yes - and No.


    You will definitely be somewhat different when You are for Example a Fighter and you put a Mage or a Cleric or Ranger into your base/original Archetype.

    But you will be truly just your original Archetype who has learned to be a little bit more like another Archetype. In Case You don't want to double down on your already existing Archetype and make all of your original Traits as such stronger.
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Here to blow the OP's mind. Each Arch type gives you 4 sets of Augments to pick from. There is really 256 options. Before you get to things like religion Augments and the like.
  • LodrigLodrig Member
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    Here to blow the OP's mind. Each Arch type gives you 4 sets of Augments to pick from. There is really 256 options. Before you get to things like religion Augments and the like.

    This is part of the problem actually. That many combinations naturally leads to an expectation of insignificant and trivial 'flavor' type effects from augments because people know that is the only way that many nuggets of content can be created in a reasonable time frame.

    If Steven's core commitment is meaningfully distinct class gameplay (which it should be) then he WILL have to downscope and the 4 schools of augments are the most obvious place to do so.
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