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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Big Guilds Take Over
Belluccii
Member, Alpha Two
Hello everyone!
i've been having this one thing in mind for long while now and since we're close to Alpha 2 and later on the launch of the game i think it's fair to see people's opinions and POVs regarding this particular matter.
What do you think about mega guilds/streamer/youtuber guilds doing a complete take over on a server? baring in mind the possibly for ruining the node or the general experience like some other games that released over the recent years
with all honesty this may or may not ruin the experience for people. since these guilds tend to sometimes be toxic or just a bunch of in game trolls or just because they're "celebs" they get away from most things.
even smaller guilds end up being over shadowed in all events and they get nothing for participation or winning until they either join the bigger ones or quit playing.
so yeah. i can't help but wonder about such thing. am i the only one thinking about these things here?
i also have a few possible solutions for such thing if the devs ever want to know or have already an implemented system for such thing
i've been having this one thing in mind for long while now and since we're close to Alpha 2 and later on the launch of the game i think it's fair to see people's opinions and POVs regarding this particular matter.
What do you think about mega guilds/streamer/youtuber guilds doing a complete take over on a server? baring in mind the possibly for ruining the node or the general experience like some other games that released over the recent years
with all honesty this may or may not ruin the experience for people. since these guilds tend to sometimes be toxic or just a bunch of in game trolls or just because they're "celebs" they get away from most things.
even smaller guilds end up being over shadowed in all events and they get nothing for participation or winning until they either join the bigger ones or quit playing.
so yeah. i can't help but wonder about such thing. am i the only one thinking about these things here?
i also have a few possible solutions for such thing if the devs ever want to know or have already an implemented system for such thing
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Comments
And by the sounds of it, current player culture is passive as fuck.
Well its kinda big turn off for me to spam in chats, discord groups and whatever looking for ANY player to join my zerg group. Since the only thing that will matter when inviting people will be the count, and nothing else.
In the end if Zergs dominate everything everywhere, and you cant do anything if not in zerg group. I will just end up quitting the game, same as i did with T&L. Since this is not my thing, and not what i search for in my MMO experience
I'm gonna be giving all the feedback I can about guild wars and their pricings, because those should be the main tool we use to fight against megaguilds. Small guilds should have an easier way of wardeccing big guilds and get good rewards if they manage to win the objectives. While big guilds should have huge costs and smaller rewards.
You don't need a zerg guild to fight a zerg guild, but you can always create a zerg to fight their zerg. And if you approach the fight smartly enough - you'll win in the long run.
Obviously the game's design should support that smart fight and imo that should come from proper content distribution and competiting content spawning. A ton of content will already be prime-time centered, so megaguilds will have to split their forces to try and control all of that. And split forces are easier to fight, cause, considering how loot works in Ashes - those split forces will not have good gear on them.
In other words, people just need to be willing to fight. If everyone gives up as soon as they lose once - of course megaguilds will win.
This will apply if there is 1 mega guild in the server.
But if Zerging is the easy way around, You may end up seeing 4-5-6 mega guilds per server, which total will have more than half the total server population. In the end you may end up with 1 mega guild per ZOI, and in this particular ZOI the total number of players outside the Mega guild would be much less than the guild itself.
And you will have the option to either join 1 of the existing mega guilds, or quit. Which i would choose the second option if Intrepid does not implement anti zerg mechanics. And "Soft pushes" will be Far from enough to deal with the zerg problem. There need to be drastic measures.
If they control most of the map spawns you wont have good gear also, since everything will be going to the zerg. So even if only 10% of their members are good geared, Your gear wont be better than the bad geared members, because those guild will form from day 1. They wont wait you to get geared first and then dominate the map.
It is not inevitable. Just needs Control from Intrepid. If they leave the solution in players hands - then yes, its inevitable. But there are enough measures Intrepid can put in order to make sure zerg guilds dont exist at all.
And even if this was implemented, this would just mean that those megaguilds will be running around with full raid groups and would still farm every spot, get all the loot and snowball from there. Because literally no one would be able to bring more people to fight them.
If you have some other idea of how to stop zergs - do provide it, cause there's a small chance that Intrepid simply haven't thought of it yet.
That whould be HUGE for me too! Marking "non-streaming Servers" or letting me somehow choose clearly if I want to participate with them.
Maybe Intrepid should put all the "streamer guilds" on their own servers, so their audience can enjoy the spectacle of those Top-Tier-Streamer mega guilds battling each other and the streamers can have their commercial success there with each other...
Well if the zerg split on groups of x40 players to farm spots. This is no longer against my beliefs.
40 vs 40 is something i am good with. This is no longer contest of who brings more players, but contest of skill.
And yes i agree that even with this implemented, you will still see multiple groups from the zerg guild near each other. trying to fight on multiple fronts and other tactics. But i do believe that you wont see more than 3-4 groups in the same place since they will start killing eachother. so 160 players in 1 place is much different from 800. And even with those 160 you can catch 1 of the groups off guard. Divide the rest with the Tank Wall and stuff like this.
Other solutions are: scaling aoe spells (that i know you are against), But as long as small group can kill zerg group, then its worth it
The streamers and their communities will complain if this is the case.
In the end they didnt form those massive guilds to fight equal battles. The whole idea behind forming them was that they want easy win without any resistance. Players that have skill dont join zergs, Only those who cant win in equal fights join zergs. Most of the time those same players are the P2W in games that this is allowed.
All guilds are subject to a passive tax that is either weekly, bi-weekly or monthly. Up to the dev to decide. These taxes are gold sinks.
The tax are broken into brackets. For every X amount of guild members, the more tax you pay as a whole.
Then there is also an alliance tax, for every X amount of alliances you have, there is a multiplier that affects your guild tax.
example:
A guild of 10 players will pay 100g in tax (10g per person basically)
A guild of 200 players will pay 20,000g in tax (or 100g per person basically)
A guild of 50 players will pay 2,000g in tax (or 50g per person)
4 guilds of 50 players in alliance will pay 7,500g per guild for a total of 30,000g
every alliance is a multipler. 2,500x3 alliance = 7500 per guild in that alliance contributing for a total of 30,000 or 150g per person.
If they are able to maintain that, through city taxes or whatnot, fair play. But it is going to require a great deal of teamwork and grind from everyone to pull their weight. This will cause stress/frictions for the non organized guilds and headaches for the organized ones.
This will also benefits the normal guilds who can sustain themselves due to their sizes.
Obviously the math formula can be adjust accordingly, as I am giving a framework solution.
I'm not sure if thats realistic, just as I am unsure that there will be servers that block streaming tools. Which is why I hope for something that at least if not anything else gives me the information on which places to avoid, because I really don't want to be the involuntary, unpaid participant in some streamers entertainment show.
But this won't stop all mega guilds. Some are in it for the domination, not the clicks. However, there shouldn't be zerg specific taxes or anything like that. Just don't make any special rules helping high pop guilds. Force guilds and nodes to spend resources on larger pop limits. We already don't have personal drops. When good rewards for an event go to the top 3 contributors, that feels ok when you have 20. Feels a lot worse when you have 100.
Another thing we talked about before is to not have zerg-wide buffs. Keep it in the group. Tag certain heal skills with group only too. This makes zerg group management tougher
You underestimate Zergs, And you underestimate the bad consequences a Zerg can bring.
It doesnt matter if only top 3 contributers get rewards if they own most spawn locations.
And the consequences of zergs can be dead servers with mass quits of players. (or transfers if they are allowed)
I honestly don't worry too much about mega guilds, I am optimistic enough about the balancing process through Alpha & Beta that I don't have to worry about every server being overtaken by some mega guild. If a huge guild decides that they want to play the game for domination, thats completely fine with me, that is an INGAME motivation and thats all I care about. I want the people I play alongside with to be motivated by the game and by the game only.
But thats me personally.
As for zerg buffing - Is there anything bigger than a Bard melody at this point? And do they even apply to people outside your own group (even if they are in the same raid)?
I honestly like this solution the best. I personally think it should be seasonal, every season change you get taxed. It forces large guilds to have active players and not just soldiers that log on when they need an extra sword. This is healthy in my opinion
This solution is half as*ed solution.
If taxes are too high you will just see how zergs split in many small guilds, which eventually will lead to my solution where every small guild of lets say 50 people is threated as enemy in the open world with the other small guilds.
Or if taxes are too small it wont do anything.
And if by any chance the taxes are just right, you will see Some zerg guilds that dominate the full server. And there wont by any other zerg guild to stand in their way, coz taxes.
In the end. instead implementing this thing with uncertain outcome. just put the certain outcome.
We WANT to break up the zergs into smaller guilds (higher chance of discourse in the long run). Any and every group has the potential to be an enemy and thats healthy. It will cause conflicts right out the gate but as players tire of fighting they will either choose diplomacy or avoidance. Scaling AoEs doesnt guarantee anything but destroy the PvE experience and Buff exp grinders. Players will eventually learn to play around it, the solution to deny zergs lays within system mechanics. How specifically, idk but taxes are a start. Adding elements where each member has to contribute will slowly widdle down these mega guilds or atleast hinder them.
Thats the whole point, And there is no reason to involve taxes in this. Since this solution can be implemented directly.
Just make every group (max 40 players per raid group) be threated as enemies to any other group of players, even if the 2 groups are with players in the same guild.
This is the direct approach. It doesnt matter of funds the guilds have or anything. It just makes guilds not being able to zerg content
The other way around is to cap guilds size to 50 players max with no option to increase this. Make no alliances possible.
I think this will lead to long periods of mega guilds controlling a node, but I don’t think a single mega guild will control a server - because humans.
Ye no one thinks 1 guild will control the server. The Map is too big for this.
The problem at hand is multiple zergs controlling the server.
From everything I’ve heard & seen during development - multiple massive guilds controlling nodes and duking it out is a desired, designed outcome by Intrepid.
100%, power will change hands as players experience burnout, ADHD brain to other games, etc. I do believe Node conflict will become a Factions game. Individual guilds should have impact, and I hope Intrepid insures they do. But I have experienced in numerous times once a faction is formed, the only way to compete is to make a stronger, smarter faction but then who stops them? Hence, calling it a factions game.
This game places a heavy emphasis on socialization. Solo play may be possible but is not the intended route. If you hang out in smaller groups you'll need to make deals, use diplomacy, or rise in power. It's apart of the core game play loop it seems.
I personally do both, build up my own faction starting small. enjoying the slow growth. Become a sizable threat on the server, and then advertise the guild, powerspike, and take claim to something for a time. after I've had my fill managing everything I go back to casual game play
Make a mercenary clan of good pvpers that can be hired to show up and help other clans fight Zerg’s as well.
You can do that on any server, Slipree … regardless of whether the server is controlled by a mega-guild, zerg guild, or no guild at all.
The topic of the thread is the detriment that a mega-guild would place (if any) on smaller guilds and solo players … such as node politics and events.
This would fall into the risk vs reward category.
You have no idea what you are talking about right? Never played vs zerg group?
In AOC especially, you will try to draw the zerg, and you will find out there are 150 rogues behind you that will oneshot your whole group before you even react. There is the Tank class Pull ability that the moment you get in range and he pull you into the zerg you are dead.
But guess people should experience it first before they come to my opinion that zerg should be removed from the game. The result of lack of vision is talking bs...
If you want to feel what playing vs zerg is- go play Throne and liberty. Dont join zerg group and try to get ANY objective with a small group. (Hint: after dozens of unsuccessful attempts you will end up farming daily quests and pvp disabled events only till you quit the game after few days)