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The dodge/block function seems off. Not a fan of the block mechanic. Dodge roll seems okay?

BriggsBriggs Member, Alpha Two
edited November 7 in General Discussion
Whats everyone's thoughts on those? The block just feels meh most of the time vs casting spells or attacking. The dodge roll feels super clunky but maybe its just server lag. Usually not a fan of a block function in MMOs.

Comments

  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    In my experience today, the dodge roll is exclusively for avoiding projectiles. It didn't do anything to mitigate melee attacks, beyond the benefits of having a bit more space between you and a mob to have a bit more time before they start an attack.

    Rather than block, I'd rather it be a three-option system based on weapon type equipped. Block (shield offhand), Parry (melee 1h offhand), and Brace (2h + all magical weapons).

    Block - significant mitigation boost while held, draining stam

    Parry - a short 'buff' that significantly mitigates the damage of the next melee attack, timing reliant and costs a flat amount of stam.

    Brace - slight mitigation boost while held, higher draining stam cost than block


    If the key one prompt gonna be visible on the UI no matter what weapon is equipped, as it seems to be functioning right now, then it should always do something
  • wakkytabbakywakkytabbaky Member, Alpha Two
    you are meant to time your blocks according to the enemies big hits and auto attacks and weave your stuff in between that. blocking is only really effective if in a raid group / a full group as then your damage doesnt matter as much, 100% block all the big attacks / in down time but if in a group of 3-4 i hardly block as atm the mitigation isnt that much vs some enemies
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 30
    a parry should be an active skill that mitigates damage when successful but penalizes you when done poorly and have a very small window to perform and may or may not give you a riposte when done masterfully.

    a block has no negative penalty is modified by using a shield but should use stamina to maintain. your brace is just a block without a shield and should only mitigate a portion of damage compared to a shield wielder.

  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    Of all the things in combat. I found the timing and block function to work fine. One could see the attack animation for the enemy start and have enough time to successfully block.

    Clicking, targeting, interaction key, is an issue because they are all set to different keys.
  • SmaashleySmaashley Member, Alpha Two
    Honestly, I don't like the dodge or block mechanic. I think it should be a dodge button like it is implemented right now. But make it like GW2, when you dodge, it evades all types of attacks for like 1 second or 0.5 second.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I do like the dodge in GW2 but I don't agree it should have the same short CD as GW2. (i frames) are very tricky to balance around and make some instances/content trivial. I think if dodge had a significant stamina cost/penalty then it will mesh better within combat mechanics rather than just a "do a barrel roll" starfox spam abilty.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Uncommon Sense wrote: »
    I do like the dodge in GW2 but I don't agree it should have the same short CD as GW2. (i frames) are very tricky to balance around and make some instances/content trivial. I think if dodge had a significant stamina cost/penalty then it will mesh better within combat mechanics rather than just a "do a barrel roll" starfox spam abilty.

    Dodge rolling costs stamina in Ashes. There's no 'spamming' it that wouldn't immediately backfire.
  • BriggsBriggs Member, Alpha Two
    I think dodge is fine as it is, I don't think I-Frames work in an MMO like they might otherwise in fromsoft games. Look at the PVP in those, its awful unless you really like that kinda thing.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    the further away from I-frames Intrepid designs its combat mechanics around...The better the game will be.

    wasn't suggesting AOC dodging was spammy, just making a general statement regarding dodging in other games
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    i-frames are the most effective way of implementing a dodge, because it's the least impacted by server lag. Location data run against a projectile's location data and hitbox is more janky than a 'dodge state' on/off check for the purposes of hits or misses.

    The current state is way too unreliable, and doesn't actually dodge much of anything. Even if you clear space between yourself and a melee enemy, their damage always still hits you. The current system has you dodge rolling to make space rather than actually dodging out of the way of attack like it should be.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 1
    No I'm actually more fond of of the dodge mitigating damage by distancing from the attack. an i-frame evade is something else entirely, Though I know some people will use dodge and evade interchangeably. But for me a dodge is creating distance from an attack, while an evade is mitigating damage via skill and cunning...
    Stamina expense to dodge is fine as long as the amount lost is balanced well.

    If the problem is server lag then having an i-frame dodge is a bandaid cope and the server data rate for combat optimization needs to be first rate.

    The issue with an i-frame dodge is it leads to content trivialization with wall humping stacked groups...which is not riveting gameplay...
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yes they should fix the issues of poor sync as best they can. But this is an MMO, there's going to be lag, and taking that into account when designing combat is better in the long run.

    It's not exactly difficult to have attack types that ignore i-frames. Ground AoEs shouldn't even check for i-frame status before dealing damage, and bosses will I hope get plenty more unique attacks that have no interaction with dodges (ambient damage), just proximity and location. But melee hits shouldn't be damaging someone that just dodge rolled half a mile away.

    It looks bad and makes no sense that a 2ft goblin's scrungly little arms can have a 10ft reach to do a basic swipe attack. It should be rewarding good timing to avoid damage. As it is there's no reason to dodge roll once the mob has reached melee range if I'm its target.
  • BriggsBriggs Member, Alpha Two
    I'm thinking about this from a pvp viewpoint as well. The current dodge capstone skillpoint gives you 50%?? (not sure) dodge chance on a roll which is quite nice but doesn't give you IFrames and if someone has enough accuracy they can mitigate that which is fine. I think the biggest issue with the dodge roll is server lag currently.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Briggs wrote: »
    I'm thinking about this from a pvp viewpoint as well. The current dodge capstone skillpoint gives you 50%?? (not sure) dodge chance on a roll which is quite nice but doesn't give you IFrames and if someone has enough accuracy they can mitigate that which is fine. I think the biggest issue with the dodge roll is server lag currently.

    It claims to, but so far it doesn't even work based on distance made from an attacker, much less via an evasion stat. I haven't noticed a single 'dodge' or 'evade' as a result of dodge rolling away from a melee enemy, it always hits despite the mob being out of melee range during the strike.
  • ShabooeyShabooey Member, Alpha Two
    Would echo the above, haven't been able to "dodge" an incoming melee attack yet and most of the ranged attacks that are coming are hitting even if I dodge.
  • Darsh13Darsh13 Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2
    Yeah. I think it’s a bit wonky right now.. I noticed I was able to dodge both the melee and ranged attacks IF I could see the enemy’s cast bar.. I was then able to time it properly..

    However, many times, that cast bar isn’t visible…

    Definitely needs a bit of tweaking! Haha

    Another thing I’m not a fan of is how the animations if the ranged attacks look when you dodge to the side.. then you see the “rock” or whatever projectile just curve around like a homing missile lol. Looks pretty bad visually imo. I would rather they just increase the speed of the projectiles so that it doesn’t have to slowly turn around to hit you! Lol
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    In my experience today, the dodge roll is exclusively for avoiding projectiles. It didn't do anything to mitigate melee attacks, beyond the benefits of having a bit more space between you and a mob to have a bit more time before they start an attack.

    This would explain why all those times i tried to use the Dodge-Roll to dodge a swing -> it was absolutely useless. :D
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  • Flashfirez23Flashfirez23 Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don’t have issues with blocking or dodging. Except sometimes I dodge an attack and still get hit by it. So that needs to be fixed.
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