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Exp grind

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Comments

  • GithalGithal Member
    edited October 29
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    My thoughts are that a Raid group should be formed to do world boss, or some hard dungeon or some other similar content.
    Doing quests, farming mobs, gathering and stuff like this should be for party groups (8 players max).

    As such, I think while you are in Raid groups - all players in the raid group should be UNABLE to earn any experience from mobs, and killing mobs for quests should not count toward the quest completion while in raid group (except some raid specific quests).

    A lot of games have this implemented. WOW is included in this count. And i think AOC should implement this also.

    heavily against this idea. a raid is just a bigger party. take into consideration you get less exp the more members you have, and past some points adding more members wont really help you kill faster. there are also exp and loot penalties already related to the levels of the group members.

    There are no penalties tho. Just coz the exp split among all party members doesnt mean this is penalty.
    Intrepid cant balance the world of Verra if there are both 8 man parties and 40 man raid groups in the same time.

    there are penalties though ;)

    No they are not. Penalty is when you get less than what you earned. For example killing 100 mobs and earning exp as if you killed just 30 is penalty (and i mean this as a group, not individually). Splitting is not penalty. And this is because Bigger groups means more kills + higher level of mobs you farm. which also leads to you getting better gear from higher level mobs. and more gear also because of more kills. As a result you will earn A LOT, MUCH. GREATELY more exp as raid group farming high level mobs than party group farming mobs your level. And not only this, but it will also be easy as sh*t, to farm those mobs because you are with 40 man raid group.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    My thoughts are that a Raid group should be formed to do world boss, or some hard dungeon or some other similar content.
    Doing quests, farming mobs, gathering and stuff like this should be for party groups (8 players max).

    As such, I think while you are in Raid groups - all players in the raid group should be UNABLE to earn any experience from mobs, and killing mobs for quests should not count toward the quest completion while in raid group (except some raid specific quests).

    A lot of games have this implemented. WOW is included in this count. And i think AOC should implement this also.

    heavily against this idea. a raid is just a bigger party. take into consideration you get less exp the more members you have, and past some points adding more members wont really help you kill faster. there are also exp and loot penalties already related to the levels of the group members.

    There are no penalties tho. Just coz the exp split among all party members doesnt mean this is penalty.
    Intrepid cant balance the world of Verra if there are both 8 man parties and 40 man raid groups in the same time.

    there are penalties though ;)

    No they are not. Penalty is when you get less than what you earned. For example killing 100 mobs and earning exp as if you killed just 30 is penalty (and i mean this as a group, not individually). Splitting is not penalty. And this is because Bigger groups means more kills + higher level of mobs you farm. which also leads to you getting better gear from higher level mobs. and more gear also because of more kills. As a result you will earn A LOT, MUCH. GREATELY more exp as raid group farming high level mobs than party group farming mobs your level. And not only this, but it will also be easy as sh*t, to farm those mobs because you are with 40 man raid group.

    loot and exp gets penalized based on the number of players and their levels. also, at some point, its detrimental to bring more players. if you are already one shotting the mobs, more dps wont do anything since you are already one shotting the mobs, for example, so that just means less exp for everyone. i consider that a penalty. its less efficient.
  • GithalGithal Member
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    My thoughts are that a Raid group should be formed to do world boss, or some hard dungeon or some other similar content.
    Doing quests, farming mobs, gathering and stuff like this should be for party groups (8 players max).

    As such, I think while you are in Raid groups - all players in the raid group should be UNABLE to earn any experience from mobs, and killing mobs for quests should not count toward the quest completion while in raid group (except some raid specific quests).

    A lot of games have this implemented. WOW is included in this count. And i think AOC should implement this also.

    heavily against this idea. a raid is just a bigger party. take into consideration you get less exp the more members you have, and past some points adding more members wont really help you kill faster. there are also exp and loot penalties already related to the levels of the group members.

    There are no penalties tho. Just coz the exp split among all party members doesnt mean this is penalty.
    Intrepid cant balance the world of Verra if there are both 8 man parties and 40 man raid groups in the same time.

    there are penalties though ;)

    No they are not. Penalty is when you get less than what you earned. For example killing 100 mobs and earning exp as if you killed just 30 is penalty (and i mean this as a group, not individually). Splitting is not penalty. And this is because Bigger groups means more kills + higher level of mobs you farm. which also leads to you getting better gear from higher level mobs. and more gear also because of more kills. As a result you will earn A LOT, MUCH. GREATELY more exp as raid group farming high level mobs than party group farming mobs your level. And not only this, but it will also be easy as sh*t, to farm those mobs because you are with 40 man raid group.

    loot and exp gets penalized based on the number of players and their levels. also, at some point, its detrimental to bring more players. if you are already one shotting the mobs, more dps wont do anything since you are already one shotting the mobs, for example, so that just means less exp for everyone. i consider that a penalty. its less efficient.

    This is not WOW. You wont go out there solo killing group of 10 mobs that over level you like its nothing.
    You wont one shot mobs that are you level (more like a mob can one shot you).
    The whole game design is to make leveling hard. And thats exactly why raid groups should be unable to level, because they will break the game design.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The point was not about efficiency or the current care share system. The point is that the first waves will level together, the second waves would also level together. However, the second waves have the first waves to perform the duties.

    Furthermore, if the raid mobs do not give experience the pvp will be worse off because if you go red in a raid you would be stuck red until you leave the raid.

    The whole pvx notion is at stake. Efficiency is not the prerogative to someone who is semi afk.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • GithalGithal Member
    edited October 29
    Songcaller wrote: »
    The point was not about efficiency or the current care share system. The point is that the first waves will level together, the second waves would also level together. However, the second waves have the first waves to perform the duties.

    Furthermore, if the raid mobs do not give experience the pvp will be worse off because if you go red in a raid you would be stuck red until you leave the raid.

    The whole pvx notion is at stake. Efficiency is not the prerogative to someone who is semi afk.

    The corruption should be in different topic, because my opinion is that if a member of raid group become corrupted by killing green player - then the whole 40 man in the raid group should get little bit of corruption as well. And not just the 1 who did the killing blow.

    and i didnt understand the whole "wave" thing you talking about
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    A wave is a set of toons. Everyone and their mums are in groups in a2. Also, you cannot not ignore corruption because the raids are designed for pvx contestation not for detached pve. Therefore, the exploit would still stand because otherwise player agency is reduced and contestation would become a rare beast.

    In actuality the best approach is to just strike the raids you see at any given time. Such a decree would mean low level toons in a raid would be automatic failure against a full raid of 50s.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • GithalGithal Member
    Songcaller wrote: »
    A wave is a set of toons. Everyone and their mums are in groups in a2. Also, you cannot not ignore corruption because the raids are designed for pvx contestation not for detached pve. Therefore, the exploit would still stand because otherwise player agency is reduced and contestation would become a rare beast.

    In actuality the best approach is to just strike the raids you see at any given time. Such a decree would mean low level toons in a raid would be automatic failure against a full raid of 50s.

    We should not be talking about the alpha testing waves tho. Those discussions are for after the real game launch. I am not ignoring the corruption, But i think its big enough topic to have its own thread.
    And obviously low level players in raid group dont stand a chance vs 50 lvl raid group. But didnt understand what you want to prove with this.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You are missing the point. One can have no xp in raids for World of Warcraft - Everyone in a raid instance would be capable and do not have to protect the content.

    In Ashes, the Dungeons and Raids are openworld except for 20% - At least according to Steven, which means lower levels are far more likely to form bigger groups to protect from level 50 groups.

    The old system of powerlevelling whilst holding a dungeon or raid is an absolute given - the only question remains how many are required to protect the routines, how few are required to power level and how many alts do you need to level?

    Removing experience would lock people into corruption and not actually affect anything else. The solution is an xp cap of -5 to +5 levels, though 45 to 50 would still be powerlevelled when available. Also, a 45 is far more effective against a level 50 compared to a level 10 against level 50s.

    My point referred to a1 and a2 because using other games as an example does not cover the ashes aspects (except lineage 2 to a certain degree).
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • GithalGithal Member
    edited October 29
    Songcaller wrote: »
    You are missing the point. One can have no xp in raids for World of Warcraft - Everyone in a raid instance would be capable and do not have to protect the content.

    In Ashes, the Dungeons and Raids are openworld except for 20% - At least according to Steven, which means lower levels are far more likely to form bigger groups to protect from level 50 groups.

    The old system of powerlevelling whilst holding a dungeon or raid is an absolute given - the only question remains how many are required to protect the routines, how few are required to power level and how many alts do you need to level?

    Removing experience would lock people into corruption and not actually affect anything else. The solution is an xp cap of -5 to +5 levels, though 45 to 50 would still be powerlevelled when available. Also, a 45 is far more effective against a level 50 compared to a level 10 against level 50s.

    My point referred to a1 and a2 because using other games as an example does not cover the ashes aspects (except lineage 2 to a certain degree).

    Restricting exp gain in raid groups, does not restrict you from forming raid group to fight higher lvl players in pvp.

    I already posted similar solution to the one of the +5 levels you mentioned in the previous comments in this thread. And yes i agree that this also could somehow work with tweaks here and there. tho in this case there should be some things taken into consideration with questing as well.

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