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Feedback and Suggestions for Tank Class

KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited November 7 in Tank Archetype
Introduction:
Having played the tank role extensively throughout my time in testing, I've reached various levels and gathered insights into what works well and where improvements are needed. Players have often suggested that tanks should do more damage or have better healing. While I believe this approach misses the mark, the real focus should be on improving key tank mechanics like threat generation, crowd control, and damage mitigation. In this feedback, I will provide detailed suggestions on how we can evolve the tank class without skewing its primary role.

One-Handed Mace Mechanics
I believe one-handed maces should have a passive finisher ability that applies a sunder-like effect, reducing the target’s armor. Maces, being blunt weapons, should naturally weaken armor through repeated strikes, adding a thematic and practical use for these weapons.
Currently, one-handed maces apply effects like daze and snare, which are useful, but the addition of an armor-shattering mechanic would better suit their role in combat. This would make maces feel more impactful and give players a reason to choose them over other one-handed weapons.

Proposed Change:
Add a passive ability for one-handed maces that applies an armor-shattering effect, reducing the target’s armor after repeated strikes.

Shield Mechanics and Skills
A shield is just as important to a tank as their weapon, and it should be given the respect it deserves. The shield should not only be a defensive tool but also serve as an offensive weapon. I propose a Shield Skill Tree that prioritizes skill-based gameplay, combining defensive and offensive mechanics, much like Perfect Block.

Perfect Block should trigger the passive skill buff based on the type of shield you use. For example, depending on the shield skill tree talent you've chosen, your shield's Perfect Block will grant different benefits. However, it comes at a significant cost: stamina. This system will introduce a risk-reward dynamic that encourages thoughtful gameplay. Over-reliance on Perfect Block will drain your stamina quickly, leaving you vulnerable, which adds a strategic element to tanking.

In addition to this, Threat Management & AoE Aggro is an area where tanks are currently lacking. I propose mechanics that allow spreadable aggro—almost like a festering corruption mechanic—that spreads hatred from the target to nearby enemies, allowing tanks to better manage multiple mobs. For example, after executing a Perfect Block, regular abilities could temporarily transform into threat-spreading tools. Tanks could slam their weapon against their shield, releasing a shockwave that spreads aggro to nearby enemies, effectively doubling the aggro radius. This would enhance AoE threat management while adding complexity to crowd control.

Proposed Shield Skill Tree:

Perfect Block: Timing-based skill that costs significant stamina but provides unique buffs for each shield type.

Tower Shields: Massive full-body shields that focus on maximum protection.
Iron Tower Buff: A perfectly timed block grants increased block mitigation and immunity to knockdowns or stuns, reflecting the shield’s immovable strength.

Sentinel Shields: Medium-sized shields blending defense and offense.
Quickened Strike Buff: A perfectly timed block staggers enemies, temporarily increasing attack speed for quick follow-up strikes.

Buckler Shields: Small, agile shields ideal for aggressive, fast-paced combat.
Critical Surge Buff: A perfectly timed block deflects the attack, temporarily increasing movement speed and critical strike chance, ideal for repositioning.

Tectonic Slam and Other Shield Abilities
Tanks should be able to use their shield as an aggressive tool as well. Abilities like Tectonic Slam, where you pin enemies to the ground or a wall with a heavy shield blow, or Moving Fortress, a Tower Shield-only ability allowing you to charge forward with your shield raised, knocking enemies down, would add exciting, dynamic gameplay.

Proposed Changes:
Introduce a dedicated shield skill tree with abilities like Shield Bash, Shield Slam, and Perfect Block, with some abilities only usable based on your shield type.
Improve the blocking system by adding visual and audio cues, making it more immersive and rewarding.

Two-Handed Weapon Talent: Unyielding Grip
I suggest implementing a new talent called Unyielding Grip, which would allow tanks to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. This talent would represent mastery over two-handed weapons, offering a new branch of skills within the Two-Handed Weapon Skill Tree. These skills would branch off of the Unyielding Grip talent and provide customization options for players who unlock this talent. For example, abilities could include sunder effects (armor reduction) or additional crowd control options, creating a balanced, tactical approach to tanking with large weapons.

Proposed Change:
Introduce Unyielding Grip within the Two-Handed Weapon Skill Tree, unlocking a splinter branch of skills specifically for tanks who choose to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. This would offer crowd control abilities or armor-reducing effects, giving tanks more flexibility in combat.

Weapon and Armor Impact: Weight, Speed, and Stamina Management
Weapons—especially two-handed ones—should feel heavy and impactful, Currently, the animation pause after each strike feels too fast, especially for larger weapons. Extending the pause slightly would help players feel the power behind these weapons. with a slight adjustment to movement speed when using both a two-handed weapon and a shield. This slower movement would reflect the weight of wielding such heavy gear but wouldn’t drastically impair the tank’s mobility.

Certain abilities, particularly physical stamina-based ones, should use stamina instead of mana to reflect the physical effort of executing them. Abilities like Inciting Strikes (a two-hit cleave with increased threat) or Intercept (a defensive rush to aid allies) would make sense as stamina-draining abilities. This combination of stamina and mana-based abilities would better balance the tank’s resource management, reinforcing the theme of managing physical exertion with strategic play.

Blocking Mechanics: Impact, Sound, and Visual Feedback
Blocking currently feels underwhelming and lacks the physicality it should have in combat. I suggest adding a slight screen shake when a block occurs, along with enhanced sound design to make the impact feel more visceral. This, combined with more pronounced animations when a block is successfully executed, will create a greater sense of immersion.
For Perfect Block, I propose visual cues like sparks, a subtle camera shake, and a louder clash of weapons to make it more rewarding. While a Perfect Block shouldn’t result in a knockdown for the enemy, it could introduce stagger mechanics or further debuff the attacker, ensuring that players are rewarded for their precision without making the ability feel overpowered.

Vision: Claymore/Tower Shield Tank
My dream is to create a tank build that wields a claymore alongside a tower shield, transforming into a walking fortress of iron on the battlefield. This powerful combination allows for wide, sweeping AoE swings that dominate the arena, controlling crowds and maintaining a solid defense against enemy assaults.

While this build may lack direct raw power or high damage output, it compensates for this with remarkable resilience and an extensive range of cleave attacks. The claymore's broad strikes can effectively hit multiple enemies at once, allowing me to control the battlefield and keep foes at bay. This tank excels in creating space and disrupting enemy formations, making it challenging for opponents to close in and mount a focused assault.

By prioritizing crowd control and damage mitigation, this tank build embodies the true spirit of a protector. Each swing of the claymore serves not only to deal damage but also to manage the flow of combat, ensuring that I remain a steadfast bulwark for my allies while standing firm against the tide of battle
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Comments

  • MinionX1MinionX1 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 29
    Discord sent me here.

    The abilities mostly seem interesting and the idea of various shields having perks/disadvantages I can see being a nice addition. Being able to utilize various types of tanks is what I'm hoping for, ranging from the big sword/shield tanks to more agile bruisers with a large 2h weapon type play style. Having skill sets for both.

    It's a little early and I assume there will a lot more to come for tank style class gameplay.
  • SkoltrSkoltr Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 29
    I think feedback is useful, I have personally not tried maces, but having things like sunder on them will vastly improve its usefulness Vs swords and whatnot creating a must have/meta for raids.
    Perfect block is a thing you see in other games, while it always feels cool to do so, it is dependant on netcode and therefore likely difficult to pull off. While tanking groups of mobs you probably get a bunch of procs without trying though. And audio/visual queues would have a lot of impact on mobs attacks etc. Right now it already feels fairly difficult to focus on when to block and when to dodge out of poison. I am afraid this will be twitchy gameplay. I really don't see how this would feel nice when tanking multiple mobs, and that is what one should consider when implementing features like this.

    Having some specific shield tree doesn't sound like a bad idea perse, I just think the meta argument might apply again. Or the tank suddenly has more skill points, or you mean. Sword and board tree? Right now weapon skills are passives and I honestly don't need more skills yet.

    I do agree that blocking seems less useful, I often only use it in an emergency situation (reflect is nice to use though, It is too easy to cancel the animation though). So I wouldn't mind some changes on how it works.

    Regarding your intro of tanks needing to do more damage.. get a good weapon, damage is fine at that point. Making players slower with specific weapons will severely reduce players from using these weapons (poor fighters).

    Overall you give a lot of specific suggestions which might give the Devs some valuable feedback, but the specific suggestions to me might bring more issues than they solve. I do believe changes to the tank are still pending so perhaps they can take some of your arguments/pain points in mind.

    Thanks for reading my blog
  • KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    MinionX1 wrote: »
    Discord sent me here.

    The abilities mostly seem interesting and the idea of various shields having perks/disadvantages I can see being a nice addition. Being able to utilize various types of tanks is what I'm hoping for, ranging from the big sword/shield tanks to more agile bruisers with a large 2h weapon type play style. Having skill sets for both.

    It's a little early and I assume there will a lot more to come for tank style class gameplay.

    Yes and on the last one I typed it wrong going to go and fix that lol, don’t forget to leave a thumbs up or like on the forum post itself, so the team can see that others feel the same way! 😄
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 29
    Tank threat holding seems a bit strong right now. Steven has said he doesn't want a 'tank and spank' game.

    Perhaps holding 1 target consistantly is fine, but for packs of mobs - I think if the rest of the party is spamming AOE attacks full throttle they should outpace the tank's threat on the additional targets beyond the first. This would make adds more of a threat than they currently are.
    DPS should always be at risk of peeling from the tank if they are being spastic.
  • KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    ShivaFang wrote: »
    Tank threat holding seems a bit strong right now. Steven has said he doesn't want a 'tank and spank' game.

    Perhaps holding 1 target consistantly is fine, but for packs of mobs - I think if the rest of the party is spamming AOE attacks full throttle they should outpace the tank's threat on the additional targets beyond the first. This would make adds more of a threat than they currently are.
    DPS should always be at risk of peeling from the tank if they are being spastic.

    I’ve always understood 'Tank and Spank' as a boss mechanic rather than for regular group play, but I get your point. I do agree that DPS spamming AoE should risk peeling mobs from the tank after all tanking should be a skilled role. Tanks should have an engaging system to regain aggro over time. It would be challenging with highly skilled players, but a system like a 'Seething Hatred' mechanic that allows tanks to build and unleash AoE threat would make things more dynamic. Some mobs should also be smart enough to ignore tanks or target healers or high-threat DPS, adding another layer of challenge.
  • grm125grm125 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 30
    I like you suggestions, esp perfect blocks (server latency willing) although it reads more like a wishlist which will need a balance. Id like to piggyback this post with an idea of my own. I somewhat struggling to find the tanks identity in pvp, ive seen alot of people just standing in their friendly ball providing auras and soaking aoe damage which to me is not compelling gameplay.
    Give the tank archtype some more and bigger impact abilities to physically move other players and mobs hitboxes with a pushing charge action.
    • Its lends itself to the class fantasy of being the heaviest melee fighter with enough mass to move lighter kit players, causing them to respect your space
    • Would allow for physically pushing back chokepoints and objectives in group pvp, this will be a HUGE utility in objective pvp and also contribute to the class fantasy
    • Further pvp utility around securing key kills pinning an important enemy into your team, emergent uses like pushing someone off a gather node, ledge killing with fall damage or just buying time pushing someone out of position
    • Having a class with a push ability counterplayers the nimble and speedy bard who have their collision disabled dash and buffed movespeed which i think will be very dominant in group pvp (think speed boosted melee guys rushing your backline, whats the counterplay for controlling space? send mages to aoe the ground? lame)

    Could also make active block have 75% knockback resistance giving it more use in large scale group pvp. Again a counterplayer opportunity, envisioning two defensive front lines pushing on each other or fighting over an objective, keeping the ranged classes safe. Or breaching an impossibly spammed chokepoint with a combination of movement abilities and defense cooldowns.

    I have some feelings about the chain hook and wall abilities from a thematic standpoint and how it would play with also having a push ability but i dont want to get into that here. Suffice to say i think a part of the class identity of the tank should be about controlling and creating space in a pvp environment. Giving them tools to help cement this identity would be a huge win.
  • ELWOWELWOW Member, Alpha Two
    I feel like tank is in decent spot right now, but the main issue is that in smaller group content that has been forced right now by nerfing raid XP tank is missing some self sustain. I can't heal myself by any decent amount, shake it off is not working too good and often just gives back the minimum 10% of the health which on levels 15-25 is like 300-500hp which is really low. I think tank should have some healing from "Reflect" or some life leech from Intimidating Aura. Otherwise tank can't solo farm if your friends are off and also struggle in 4-5 man groups. You are literally forced to have a cleric 24/7 with you later on.
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