Dear Intrepid: You caved to the masses, and it hurts

Apparently, my purchase of the $250 pre-order package 3 years ago was high-risk/low-reward.

To be clear, these are just complaints. There are already posts containing the same sentiments, so this is mainly for my own catharsis. This is not an attack on Intrepid or Steven. They don't owe me anything. So far, I've gotten exactly what I paid for. I don't regret my purchase. I'm still rooting for AoC to succeed. I still have faith this game will succeed. Intrepid has done me no wrong by showing good to those coming in the 11th hour.

I'm not upset that the opportunity for more folk to experience A2 has opened back up through the $125 packages. This is far less about monetary value and far more about failing to honor the faith and trust many of us put in you. I may not have been a super early backer, but 3 years and $250 should mean something. It was a monetary sacrifice back then and it stings to see I've been rewarded with the nearly the same treatment as those who are joining us now -- as welcome as they are -- for half the price and significantly less risk.

The main difference? Two weeks.

Sorry, correction: Two weeks weekends.

This feels bad. It's not unfair, but I feel wronged.

And I do not care about the embers. I did not spend $250 because of the cosmetic rewards. I bought in for the privilege to actively participate in AoC's development. If I could trade my embers for access to the PTR realm, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

It's been several weeks since the drama with Asmongold's reaction to the new packages only offering A2 access (without Beta access). While intrepid was quick to react to the backlash from the masses, AFAIK, Steven has not addressed the above complaints. While the masses have been appeased, the minority group who's been actively supporting, closely following updates, and waiting with greater anticipation for a longer time, are left shaking their heads. In talking with my guild, I know I'm not alone in these feelings.

To Steven and the powers that be: you made amends to the masses who had no skin in the game. I hope you can do the same for those of us who sacrificed more at greater risk.

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Note: Edited for clarity.

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Comments

Nemeses

Think the OP is 100% correct, of course, the usual suspects will come and defend AoC, but they certainly took the Mickey out of him and all the others, who backed them back when they needed it, now they got ££ rolling in via the cosmetic (well did before they got spanked by the government, not sure if this is sorted now) they just stepped all over their backers, chasing more ££

SmileGurney

I think the kickstarter packages include more in-game coins, sub time and some exclusive cosmetics? I believe there was something else also, I have forgotten.

Its a bit of a storm in tea cup tbh. I don't know how many kickstarter supporters they originally were, but they could include you all in some sort of easteregg? Maybe a memorial wall with all your names on it.

Dezemi

Huh. I am in the opposite camp - I also bought a cosmetic packs and I love the new alpha keys because they are more affordable and thus increasing the chances of my community joining up as they grow more interested.

And the sooner my friends can join, the happier I am!

Vhaeyne

I am glad they opened it up with a cheaper key than I paid for. The game worlds are thriving. Having to compete for resource nodes and spawn camps feels great with the higher population. The new cheaper key has only increased the value I am getting out of alpha 2.

Noaani

darksinge wrote: »

Noaani Yeah, I do feel kind of slighted, and it has absolutely nothing to do with basic math. The fact that people like you can't see that, even if you disagree, is concerning.

Yeah, I really can't.

And as you can see in this thread, neither can most people.

Speaking purely objectively, when you do the math, you paid less for alpha access than people that nought the more recent option. If you take the pack cost and subtract the value of what was in each pack, your alpha access cost you about ten dollars.

If you didn't want the other stuff you bought, that's on you, dude.

MindsEye

The voyager plus packs were converted into the PAX West 2017 packs, to give us these cosmetics as well due to a package value discrepancy of $25. So the voyager plus preorder pack also gets the Pax West $225 cosmetics. The Pax West 2017 package was sold for a very short time, so very few people will have this package.

I personally missed buying a lifetime kickstarter package by 1 single day, and so I supported lntrepid’s idea so purchased the voyager plus. Also getting the Pax West cosmetics is great too to make up for that 25$ gap the perceived value the voyager plus packs were missing entirely.

Intrepid did due diligence to make up for the mistake in the voyager plus packs missing 25$ in value yet charging $250.

With that said, I believe in this case that for testing’s sake Intrepid needs more people in the Alpha 2, and isnt caving as you perceive. Simply put, they need a higher connection rate than the packages they sold with Alpha 2 access previously. You don’t want to go to the next phase of testing, if you don't complete bread and butter basics and that’s the reality we have here. Intrepid needs more people on Alpha 2 at the same time, than they previously estimated. I am sure they have a specific number in mind and wont exceed this.

Although, we waited 7 years and I feel the frustration that others wont wait the 7 years we did and it just turns Voyager plus preorder packs with alpha 2 to just “getting cosmetics” reality is we needs the game connections working and that most likely they need more bodies and this probably is key to stabilizing the servers, finding the bus etc. If its anything, the Pax 2017 cosmetics that they converted our packs too are likely the most rare next to the royalty of the kickstarter and I recall some who bought “every” cosmetic” pack missed the Pax West 2017 package cosmetics! So what does Voyager Plus get in the end? We supported Intrepid’s initial game from the beginning, watched how the game developed, watched how the company got a new building, The annual game-athons at Steven's house . They missed all that stuff over the passed 7 years as a whale of a gamer, matured and developed an idea into a formidable MMORPG developing corporation, that has some of the preeminent talent in the industry working for them. At least $250 helped kick that off more or less! Don’t forget we get 6 months of game time automatically, the $375 lifetime kickstarter package equates to 3 years of game time already paid and how many of those will be playing beyond that, remains to be seen.

Voyager Plus waited 7 years and these current packages get nothing else, so the question I ask you is are the cosmetics of the Voyager Plus and Pax West 2017 cosmetics, 6 months of game time, over 10,000 of in game currency worth and a 7 year wait compared to the current $125 alpha 2 access and nothing else worth the discrepancy to you?

nanfoodle

The package you bought did not just give you access. It also was a cosmetic pack. You paid more but you got more.

SirChancelot

@darksinge
I preordered it 5 years ago.
A2 was to be included with my purchase.
I got access to A2.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about... That other people who preordered later than me also got access?

Electronn

While I personally am not peeved enough to care too much either way, it feels disingenuous for people to say they don't understand where the OP Is coming from.

Yes, OP paid $250 and got what they paid for. So that's fine.

On the other hand, it seems very obvious that IS created an artificial FOMO event to capture the people willing to pay $250 for A2 access before magically determining that they could accommodate more people and then moving downstream to the next tier of people willing to pay $120. The vast majority of people who paid $250 did so entirely for A2, on the belief that was necessary to play A2 from the start; aside from any giveaways, or the potential for needing more A2 testers at some point well into the future. The cosmetics were meaningless to the majority of these people, and while the game time provides value, it really is not a meaningful factor when launch is years away. To then offer A2 access to new testers before A2 even starts, it's understandable that some people will feel like they weren't treated fairly. The OP, and others, feel like they paid $250 for A2 access, when just months later, before A2 even started, they could have had the same A2 access for half the price. And yeah, it came with cosmetics and game time, but that was not the reason they bought it. Intrepid knows this.

I mean, why not skip the deadline and instead offer two tiers of A2 access from the very beginning? One pack for $250 with cosmetics and game time, and one for $120 for A2 only? They planned this from the start to milk the $250 crew. It was a sneaky move and people like the OP know this.

So yeah, OP, I understand where you're coming from. If all the white knights were intellectually honest, they would see the same.

Loving the game/A2 so far btw. Super fun. Can't wait to get back in in a couple days!

darksinge

To everyone saying something to the effect of "you're getting what you paid for": yes, you are correct. I am not debating that. My post has absolutely very, very little to do with monetary value (as I said in my OP). The monetary value of the pre-order packages is an incredibly good deal, especially for those who care about cosmetics (many of us don't, we just want to play). I'll repeat: that is not up for debate.

I was clear from the start that, yes, I'm complaining. I am very self aware of that. For those of you with a problem with complaining, maybe you shouldn't have continued reading my post after I clearly stated from the very beginning that I was complaining. To all you white knights, your responses have mostly been reactive rather than constructive and lack a holistic perspective.

Basically, I was just trying to say, "Hey Intrepid, you gave in to the whims of the roiling of the masses who had no investment in the game. It would be great if you could show the same deference to those who've already bought in and been around for a while by tossing us a bone." For many of us, that "bone" is more opportunities to participate in testing and providing early feedback.

SirChancelot

Didn't they straight up say they wanted more bodies for testing and that's why they opened it back up for sale

If they want 100 testers and then sell 100 packs then 3-5 years later 30 of those people are no longer interested/able to play... It would make sense that they would need to pull in some new blood again.

nanfoodle

OG kick start backer here. For me, this is a best case scenario. People are loving the game so much we have this mess to test. It's everything most of us hoped for. IMO this is everyone's game now.

Heljy

I will never understand those who have paid for a service, and complain that others have access to it at another price.

Rather than being jealous of the players who can play for less than you, you could be otherwise happy for them, at least for game development so the community and financial resources have increased.

Anyway, a little positivity, you’ll see it’s easier to live with.

Cassian27

What do you want? A badge on your profile that tells everyone you spent big boy money?

Noaani

darksinge wrote: »

Basically, I was just trying to say, "Hey Intrepid, you gave in to the whims of the roiling of the masses who had no investment in the game. It would be great if you could show the same deference to those who've already bought in and been around for a while by tossing us a bone." For many of us, that "bone" is more opportunities to participate in testing and providing early feedback.

Oh, so you want to be wrong in a different way.

Intrepid saw they had either a want or a need for more testers than they had, so they got more.

Are you saying they shouldn't have? Are you saying they should have had fewer testers for server stress testing?

I'm sure that isn't what you mean, because that sounds to me like someone that wants Ashes to fail.

Laetitian

Noaani wrote:

Intrepid saw they had either a want or a need for more testers than they had, so they got more.

Are you saying they shouldn't have? Are you saying they should have had fewer testers for server stress testing?

No, he doesn't want fewer testers. He just wants to be more important than the other testers because he committed first and is therefore a more capable authority on correct advice for the game's design. /s

darksinge wrote: »

It's clear some of you didn't read my post. It should be clear from the first few lines that I don't believe I'm owed anything by Intrepid. For those of you who can't read -- or can't read through your rainbow colored glasses -- I'm completely aware that my purchase came with risk and without any guarantees.

No, I read your thread. I just read it a second time and sure enough, I remembered all of these statements.
But hedging words like "To be clear, these are just complaints. There are already posts containing the same sentiments, so this is mainly for my own catharsis," and "But still, this feels bad. It's not unfair, yet I feel as though I've been wronged," are meaningless empty words, if you then end your post asking the devs to "make amends" to you. In bold, no less. You can't claim that you're just venting your "negative feelings", if do it in a call to action.

And you can't claim that you agree with the sentiment of crowdfunding, and then make all your complaints in this thread about how "you're treated," in exchange for your money, instead of focusing on the purpose of the donation said money was dedicated to, which is developing the game.

Unfortunately, you're too busy being offended for this thread to go anywhere. You didn't pay any attention to the question I asked you about what amends you want. Which is why I didn't bother replying again at first.
You've since answered the question to someone else however: You want (for example) to get more testing access than other players. You want other people to be punished and excluded from participation, so you can keep feeling superior.

Keep whining if that's all you can do, but you still have a chance to take a step back and recognise how conceited you're being. You're begging for praise for being the foundation of this game; except you've already been praised and rewarded plenty for your contribution, but you specifically demand infinite continued recognition, and that no one who comes after you should ever be praised on your level. It's more and more shocking the more you go into detail about what it really is you're asking for in practice.

darksinge wrote:

Basically, I was just trying to say, "Hey Intrepid, you gave in to the whims of the roiling of the masses who had no investment in the game.

They just paid 90$ for phase 1 Alpha 2 access, at least 15$ for 1 month of subscription (value subject to change, likely going up), and 15$ for premium content they may or may not want.
You paid 90$ for phase 1 Alpha 2 access, at least 90$ for 6 months of subscription (value subject to change, likely going up, further reducing the cost you had to pay for the Alpha itself with every additional dollar of value added to the subscription), and up to 70$ for an absolute mountain of premium content you claim you didn't want, which was your choice to accept in order to guarantee alpha access.
(Looking at these particular numbers it actually seems fairly transparent to me that the Alpha 2 access price was always marked at exactly 100$ value, discounted -10% in the bundle, in which case absolutely nothing changed between the price back then and the price now.)

So how does it make sense to diminish these new Alpha players' contribution on the basis of them having "no investment" in the game when the only "giving in to the whims of the roiling masses" that they received and you're complaining about literally had the explicit purpose of giving those masses a way to make the same investment into the game as you had made in exchange for the alpha access?
"How dare they unfairly reward those who don't have an investment in the game, by giving them an opportunity to invest in the game?" - talk about fighting windmills.

You had more risk attached to the payment, but again, that's the point of crowdfunding. The reward is that the game was made at all. That's a pretty awesome reward for the risk; no further compensation required. It just so happens that other people get to benefit from your noble sacrificial risk. If you can't tolerate that, don't crowdfund.

AlmostDead wrote:

On the other hand, it seems very obvious that IS created an artificial FOMO event to capture the people willing to pay $250 for A2 access before magically determining that they could accommodate more people and then moving downstream to the next tier of people willing to pay $120.

There's only so much FOMO prevention you can engage in before you just have to rely on people's agency. If you can't comprehend that the purpose of a crowdfunding campaign is donating for the development of something you want to succeed, and any rewards you get are equivalent to the free meal you get as "compensation" for your blood donation, then the problem is with your education and upbringing. Some things exist and you can't have them if you don't have the surplus cash; donations should be squarely on the top of that list. If you want us to eliminate all FOMO in order to protect you from yourself, civilisation would have to cease to exist.

Noaani

Laetitian wrote: »

Noaani wrote:

Intrepid saw they had either a want or a need for more testers than they had, so they got more.

Are you saying they shouldn't have? Are you saying they should have had fewer testers for server stress testing?

No, he doesn't want fewer testers. He just wants to be more important than the other testers because he committed first and is therefore a more capable authority on correct advice for the game's design..

Yeah, I know.

I'm trying to get him to realize that himself, rather than just telling him - that is far more effective.

Edit to add; this is just between me and you, right?

Laetitian

I'm not telling if you won't.

daveywavey

They always made it clear that other purchase options could be available. And they're entitled to sell their product for however much they choose.

Anotherelf

My input here is that you should put your head down and focus on your own space. if you don't feel slighted via the price originally, and other's sharp opinion from outside your view stings...mind your own business and stop concerning yourself with others.
You bought the thing you wanted, it's here and you're hopefully enjoying it. Get on with your life.
Problem solved.
I read the post fully, and I relate a little. I never thought of it until reading your post however. ignoring all the logic people are throwing at you about the equality of the deals...
You come across as a very fragile and soft person. Just stop concerning yourself with others. Enjoy what you have.
Peace. o/

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