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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
[Feedback Master thread] Alpha Two Phase One | Tank Archetype Feedback
This is a master thread for feedback relating to the Tank archetype for Alpha Two Phase One! Feel free to leave your Tank feedback here 
I'll be merging Tank feedback threads into this one.
I'll be merging Tank feedback threads into this one.
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Comments
I've put 10s of hours in to the Tank archetype by now and I have a little bit to speak of on the matter.
First, I'll say Tank feels pretty good to play. The combat really does feel responsive and snappy when the servers are stable (I know they're working on that). Desolate is probably one of my favorite abilities to use because of the jump up and the slam coming down feeling very weighty and impactful. Grapple is another that feels awesome to use when it works, I'll get to that later. (WoW DK main here). Overall, it's amazing in group play, especially when you have a Cleric to heal you and a Bard to put Temporary HP shields on you.
Unfortunately, the list of negatives is a bit longer:
Vengeance- This tends to feel like a wasted button right now due to the Temporary HP side of it simply not working. I can see the vision and I think it will be an amazing button to press once it works properly. However, I do feel that the Temporary HP conversion is a bit too low, especially with how much damage mobs do to you. [Tank Level + 0.1%Max HP] is essentially nothing: For simplicity's sake, I'll go with a level 10 Tank that has 1000 hp. We plug in the variables and we get [10+(0.001*1000)] and you get 11 Temporary HP. Now I do know that some things are stated as 0.1% and actually mean 1%: [10+(0.01*1000)] gets you 20 Temporary HP. What I am suggesting is that the Max HP scaling be 10% of your max HP. [10+(0.1*1000)]=110 Temporary HP. This I think will put the skill in a very good spot that makes the skill useable without making it overpowered.
Shake It Off- This one is really great for Tank sustain, but right now it only heals the minimum 10% max HP no matter what's going on with the amount of damage/healing you are taking.
Grapple- Sometimes the full animation goes off and nothing happens. It doesn't go on cooldown and I have to use it again, which can be frustrating in the middle of combat when I'm trying to peel a mob from my team.
Absorption Field- This one's pretty simple: It has a good effect, but right now Temporary HP skills that Tanks have just do not provide Temporary HP.
Wall- Players and enemies can just walk through it. I can see the vision with this one allowing you to put some distance or a Line of Sight between you/your party and the enemy, but right now you can just osmosis through it and it provides no cover.
Aegis- I have not gotten the chance to use this ability, but the way it reads is that the Tank will simply fall over dead if they try to use this to soak any meaningful amount of damage. Paladins in FFXIV have a similar ability, I believe, and it grants you an amount of Damage Reduction in addition to soaking team mate damage as well.
Grit- Level 5 feels like a long time for an ability like this considering the idea that you want to push group play as early as level 1. This coupled with Tank's high TTK vs other classes makes it feel kinda bad. But this is just my own personal bias, I think. It's certainly doable as it is.
I am wondering if Tanks should get an ability that increases their passive chance to block. Or will Shields get their own weapon skill tree? Right now wearing a shield feels a little lackluster with a little bit of mitigation and a small chance to block.
Sorry if it feels like I'm ripping in to Tank. I really do like the way it feels overall. Hope you appreciate the feedback! I hope to provide some video/gifs of the things I brought up here when I have some more time to go through my stream footage.
Cheers!
My biggest negatives can be summarized into 2 things.
First is the ‘Shake it off’ heal. I feel either this is bugged or is simply doing too much or trying to reinvent the wheel. Instead of just healing a portion of the recent damage you’ve taken in the last 4 seconds, you heal for a difference of the healing and damage taken? This is simply doing too much and I feel a tank should just have a reliable heal early game without taking away the need of the cleric. I suggest shake it off be changed to a simple (example) heal for 40-50% of damage taken in the last 4 seconds. I wouldn’t even mind if the cooldown was increased by a lot to compensate for the added utility and simplicity. And of course keep the minimum 10% of max health on the heal. Making this similar to WoW death strike will please a lot of tanks and make the skill so satisfying when you time it right, using it after taking a heavy dose of damage.
Second: The tank a little too long to feel like a tank. At level 5 getting grit, is when you finally get the unique ability of having more mitigation than your counterparts. Maybe u can take the early tremoring cc and feel tanky that way, but not having grit or a good use of courage maintenance aside from the knee attack didn’t feel good. I get there needs to be progression, but I’d suggest making a change here. The skill with 30% of ally damage taken going to you is early, but it still feels weird not having much more mitigation early than the fighter who just came out the portal. Some also suggested making grapple earlier.
Also. I LOVE THE INTIMIDATING AURA SKILL AND ITS CONCEPT.
Intrepid pleasssse listen to this guy. We can’t have all these redirects and expect to survive. Especially the aoe ones. We would have to buff grit’s mitigation or slightly lower the amount of damage the tank actually takes
Example: standing in this aura allows allies to redirect 20% of damage to you, but maybe the tank actually only takes in 5-10% or has increased mitigation while using this ability.
Aside from an off tank these skills are insta death in most scenarios.
I agree with Sonic's feedback. My additional two cents :
Even when leveled up to 25 in PTR it didn't feel any different from having a lvl 5 or 10 tank.
Maybe with moving grit down a few levels add different levels of "armor proficiency" where as a tank the armor you where automatically gets a +1 at lvl 5 and each 5 levels thereafter. You could even add customization options to it where instead of the +1 you can pick extra dex. Depending on style.
The whole point of the tank is to absorb the damage. Whether that's absorbing it or dodging it. I personally play tanks in the absorbing hits and healing it off. I understand that flavor comes once we get classes but the base tank should have some semblance of each path.
Tank
Overall tank abilities feel good, although there are big issues with dodge and block. The threat mechanics are very TBC, which is great. It's not hard to keep aggro but it's not fire-and-forget either.
As a tank, I want the evasion buff from dodge but not the large ground that I cover when I roll over, which both looks comical and makes me jerk the mobs around. This is not good for tanking as it creates a lot of chaos. There should be a secondary option to use dodge to proc evasion without the movement or with much less movement, like a quick sidestep. A sidestep would also look much better than groups of players rolling around on the ground constantly.
I did have some mana issues as a tank if I was grouped and there was no bard...so I would be conserving mana constantly and my damage would suffer greatly. I wanted to try out some of those group defensive skills, but mana was already a major issue, so I didn't take them.
The auto attack weaving as a tank is not very interesting. Occasionally, I would wait for 4 melee swings before resuming abilities. That's about it. The weapon trees should involve much more choice instead of just deciding what I want my finisher to do (if it even procs). Perhaps giving options for the 2nd and 3rd swing to be buffed?
Active block is terribly unfun. In a tab MMO, tanks should be pressing block for a short buff and then moving onto the next skill. Right now, you just sit there like a chump holding down block. Pressing and holding block while being unable to use other skills to generate threat or do damage is beyond boring. You don't even get to swing basic attacks. It would be a little more interesting if some tank skills could be used while blocking, that would add some depth at least. Or, better yet, active block just shouldn't be in the game at all. Ashes is not a souls game with no latency and fancy boss animations to parry. Ironically, 'active block' makes tanking far less fun and active.
Sometimes less is more. Right now the amount of temp hp granted does not make any meaningful difference in the way you play. It still feels like a wasted button. Especially when it now costs 33 courage instead of 25. It is not a good courage dump, especially when I'd much rather just press Fortify and dump all my courage that way in order to make a meaningful impact for my team and myself during combat.
Gain a X% temporary health shield, apply X% threat, and deal X% - Y% physical damage to your target enemy based on damage received from in the past Z seconds.
Instead of it being a "knee" or a "headbutt", it could instead be changed to where your forearms, fists, and weapon start glowing from yellow to orange to red (similar to how the Vengeance icon currently works on the PTR), based on how much damage youve currently absorbed, and that built up power would be unloaded into a downward strike (like a sledgehammer).
The reasons why I think this design would be better is because:
Sorry if this feedback goes into the "giving solutions" territory that you guys said you didnt want, but I desperately want the Tank kit to be something I can enjoy long term.
1. I would prefer Protect be a default skill with the additional leash ranged baked in otherwise I do not feel the majority of tanks will take it over the kit options we have now. Also a bigger or more noticeable notification on if the leash range is broken. It's very annoying to track it. I've asked several main tanks in testing with history of testing mainly tanks in AoC, none of them had Protect in their standard kit when I asked.
2. Courage, the new staggered on finishers felt good on ptr today.
3. Vengeance, I would prefer it be a more of cleave execute that spikes damage and increases str and con for a duration based on courage level with a short movement speed buff or a snare and crits if target is at 10% life or lower. Tank has enough migration skills but lacks more pure dps boosts in my opinion. Sure tank isn't a dps class but a spiked dps boost based on courage fits in my opinion. When I think "vengeance" I think here comes the BOOM time not so much a slight heal and shield self buff time.
4. Can we get a starter mace option in the Lion Hold beginners room ?
5. I do dig the Pulverize/Desolate crit sync with tripped targets. More combos in the kit make for better play.
6. Wall doesn't have collusion (sure this is known by now or turned off by design), I wasnt able to get ground and pound or charge with the add on knock back to push mobs. The Slam only moved them a few meters it felt like. Pushing / kicking mobs and players away is such an underrated CC mechanic but none of these were really working for me or the push felt too small a distance to matter / peel.
7. Indomitable Spirit rocks my world in a good way and it's smaller form Shake it off are both very useful for their purpose.
8. Tomahawk feels great in pvp.
9. The Aegis and absorb field feel good and work as intended.
10. Intimidating Aura works really well on ae taunting in short range.
11. Intercept - havent had time to test this one. Would be curious to see it work in reverse as in the target rushs to you or another ability that pulls the entire group to you which could feed into Aegis, absorb field, etc.
12. Inciting Strikes, just never felt worth taking over the shield assaults and shouts. Perhaps give it a target mitigation depuff as well.
The tanks purpose and usefulness in group / raid play is undeniable. It feels good to be needed in both pve and pvp for group play.
I really like active block as a concept but its simply not rewarding enough as it stands, better off kiting/dodging. Please keep active block in the game but incentivize its use, perhaps a small amount of overhealth so you could play aggressive after blocking?
Tank debuffs are somewhat abysmal and lack synergy with other classes IMO. Fighter has ended up with alot of core 'warrior' abilities like battle shout, execute. Fighter has a snare and rupture, tank has zero (well 1 optional cooldown but you lose trip) snares.
Intimidating aura should really be shaken debuff, not a 4th way of applying staggered
This would give more sorely needed class synergies to tank its also thematic as hell.
Vengeance needs more value/an overhaul, pressing it shoudlnt be an EHP loss, what a bizarre ability
I hate the concept of ageis, feels like your big flashy cooldown spell yet in reality its 'press this button to take more damage based on how much your teammates are standing in aoe'. Iron aura, ageis, absorption field are all functionally very similar and could even be consolidated.
Wall also, thematically is kinda weird on tank, but undeniably useful. Its abit zero-sum when you have two tanks walling each other off first offensively then defensively. Reminds me of trading cooldowns in overwatch before you can actually start the team fight
I found myself constantly saving charge cooldown to use as an escape and disengage tool, the literal opposite of the theme of the ability
Would LOVE some sort of execute, i think its thematic as a threatening space denial tool in a teamfight but also for an outlast attrition playstyle in a 1v1 situation.
Would also love bigger radius and stronger knockback style abilities, slam, chainpull and groundpound are great for that teamfight niche of displacing enemies and denying ground. (the ptr slam changes seem good!)
What if when charging an enemy deathball the tank gained 5% damage/reduction for each enemy in a 10meter radius. Or -75% damage done aura in a small radius to make them move. That would get people to respect your space when charging in. Right now a tank charges in, theyre going to get focused, snared and die. A fighter charges in, pops berserk and starts whirlwinding, people move.
I think the overall class fantasy of the AoC 'Tank' is very conflicted, half-baked and very much at odds with the fighter on who is the melee space creator. Is tank meant to be the rock to fighters scissors?
Please continue to expand tanks utility and area denial/cc/space creation for pvp, they have an excellent niche here. The class fantasy of being a teamfight initiator/breacher as well as an intimidating space denier and teammater peeler is one that is worth expanding upon
Having played the tank role extensively throughout my time in testing, I've reached various levels and gathered insights into what works well and where improvements are needed. Players have often suggested that tanks should do more damage or have better healing. While I believe this approach misses the mark, the real focus should be on improving key tank mechanics like threat generation, crowd control, and damage mitigation. In this feedback, I will provide detailed suggestions on how we can evolve the tank class without skewing its primary role.
One-Handed Mace Mechanics
I believe one-handed maces should have a passive finisher ability that applies a sunder-like effect, reducing the target’s armor. Maces, being blunt weapons, should naturally weaken armor through repeated strikes, adding a thematic and practical use for these weapons.
Currently, one-handed maces apply effects like daze and snare, which are useful, but the addition of an armor-shattering mechanic would better suit their role in combat. This would make maces feel more impactful and give players a reason to choose them over other one-handed weapons.
Proposed Change:
Add a passive ability for one-handed maces that applies an armor-shattering effect, reducing the target’s armor after repeated strikes.
Shield Mechanics and Skills
A shield is just as important to a tank as their weapon, and it should be given the respect it deserves. The shield should not only be a defensive tool but also serve as an offensive weapon. I propose a Shield Skill Tree that prioritizes skill-based gameplay, combining defensive and offensive mechanics, much like Perfect Block.
Perfect Block should trigger the passive skill buff based on the type of shield you use. For example, depending on the shield skill tree talent you've chosen, your shield's Perfect Block will grant different benefits. However, it comes at a significant cost: stamina. This system will introduce a risk-reward dynamic that encourages thoughtful gameplay. Over-reliance on Perfect Block will drain your stamina quickly, leaving you vulnerable, which adds a strategic element to tanking.
In addition to this, Threat Management & AoE Aggro is an area where tanks are currently lacking. I propose mechanics that allow spreadable aggro—almost like a festering corruption mechanic—that spreads hatred from the target to nearby enemies, allowing tanks to better manage multiple mobs. For example, after executing a Perfect Block, regular abilities could temporarily transform into threat-spreading tools. Tanks could slam their weapon against their shield, releasing a shockwave that spreads aggro to nearby enemies, effectively doubling the aggro radius. This would enhance AoE threat management while adding complexity to crowd control.
Proposed Shield Skill Tree:
Perfect Block: Timing-based skill that costs significant stamina but provides unique buffs for each shield type.
Tower Shields: Massive full-body shields that focus on maximum protection.
Iron Tower Buff: A perfectly timed block grants increased block mitigation and immunity to knockdowns or stuns, reflecting the shield’s immovable strength.
Sentinel Shields: Medium-sized shields blending defense and offense.
Quickened Strike Buff: A perfectly timed block staggers enemies, temporarily increasing attack speed for quick follow-up strikes.
Buckler Shields: Small, agile shields ideal for aggressive, fast-paced combat.
Critical Surge Buff: A perfectly timed block deflects the attack, temporarily increasing movement speed and critical strike chance, ideal for repositioning.
Tectonic Slam and Other Shield Abilities
Tanks should be able to use their shield as an aggressive tool as well. Abilities like Tectonic Slam, where you pin enemies to the ground or a wall with a heavy shield blow, or Moving Fortress, a Tower Shield-only ability allowing you to charge forward with your shield raised, knocking enemies down, would add exciting, dynamic gameplay.
Proposed Changes:
Introduce a dedicated shield skill tree with abilities like Shield Bash, Shield Slam, and Perfect Block, with some abilities only usable based on your shield type.
Improve the blocking system by adding visual and audio cues, making it more immersive and rewarding.
Two-Handed Weapon Talent: Unyielding Grip
I suggest implementing a new talent called Unyielding Grip, which would allow tanks to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. This talent would represent mastery over two-handed weapons.
Proposed Change:
Introduce Unyielding Grip within the Two-Handed Weapon Skill Tree, for tanks who choose to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. This would offer crowd control abilities or armor-reducing effects, giving tanks more flexibility in combat.
Weapon and Armor Impact: Weight, Speed, and Stamina Management
Weapons—especially two-handed ones—should feel heavy and impactful, Currently, the animation pause after each strike feels too fast, especially for larger weapons. Extending the pause slightly would help players feel the power behind these weapons. with a slight adjustment to movement speed when using both a two-handed weapon and a shield. This slower movement would reflect the weight of wielding such heavy gear but wouldn’t drastically impair the tank’s mobility.
Certain abilities, particularly physical stamina-based ones, should use stamina instead of mana to reflect the physical effort of executing them. Abilities like Inciting Strikes (a two-hit cleave with increased threat) or Intercept (a defensive rush to aid allies) would make sense as stamina-draining abilities. This combination of stamina and mana-based abilities would better balance the tank’s resource management, reinforcing the theme of managing physical exertion with strategic play.
Blocking Mechanics: Impact, Sound, and Visual Feedback
Blocking currently feels underwhelming and lacks the physicality it should have in combat. I suggest adding a slight screen shake when a block occurs, along with enhanced sound design to make the impact feel more visceral. This, combined with more pronounced animations when a block is successfully executed, will create a greater sense of immersion.
For Perfect Block, I propose visual cues like sparks, a subtle camera shake, and a louder clash of weapons to make it more rewarding. While a Perfect Block shouldn’t result in a knockdown for the enemy, it could introduce stagger mechanics or further debuff the attacker, ensuring that players are rewarded for their precision without making the ability feel overpowered.
Vision: Claymore/Tower Shield Tank
My dream is to create a tank build that wields a claymore alongside a tower shield, transforming into a walking fortress of iron on the battlefield. This powerful combination allows for wide, sweeping AoE swings that dominate the arena, controlling crowds and maintaining a solid defense against enemy assaults.
While this build may lack direct raw power or high damage output, it compensates for this with remarkable resilience and an extensive range of cleave attacks. The claymore's broad strikes can effectively hit multiple enemies at once, allowing me to control the battlefield and keep foes at bay. This tank excels in creating space and disrupting enemy formations, making it challenging for opponents to close in and mount a focused assault.
By prioritizing crowd control and damage mitigation, this tank build embodies the true spirit of a protector. Each swing of the claymore serves not only to deal damage but also to manage the flow of combat, ensuring that I remain a steadfast bulwark for my allies while standing firm against the tide of battle