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What is the appeal of zergs?

GodsRightSeatGodsRightSeat Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
I understand that the ones leading the guilds get to power trip and be lazy while the ones below funnel all the resources to them. I also understand that people new to these games might join a guild, not understanding that they are just a worthless number at the bottom. My question is, why do so many people, that presumable know what a zerg guild is, still choose to join them and sacrifice their time and individuality for people that will never acknowledge their existence beyond a number and the items they deposit.
I'm not talking about streamer guilds because at least those people are doing it to support a streamer they like and respect with the understanding that their effort is used for that person's content. I mean guilds like Enveus and others that overpopulate entire servers. Is it because they view the guilds achievements as their own somehow? Like, "I donated wood to the guild bank, so I helped defeat that world boss." or "yeah, me and 1256 other people took over that dungeon, and we were so strong nobody else could do anything about it." It just seems so empty and sad to me, so I can't understand why people join them. In a fantasy game, don't you want to be something more than a peon? To do something for yourself and stand out? I guess I'm just asking what fantasy you're looking for by playing a background character.
Genuine question, I wonder a lot about the people that join these guilds and why. No flame to anyone, and I know it's an unbreakable part of MMO's. Just curious about the thought process and reasons.
Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • AsmodeusAsmodeus Member, Alpha Two
    A major factor could be the sense of belonging, along with a lack of time or motivation to commit to a more serious guild, I would say?
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Psychologically, it's a tale as old as civilization (and therefore a proper explanation is inappropriate here because it actually gets fairly political).

    People really like not losing. Notice that I didn't say 'winning'. Humans generally are more interested in 'not losing' than they are in even winning.

    Even if they aren't the one personally winning, just 'protection' and 'being able to say that the collective they belong to, is not losing', is a powerful motivator for people. Also, not everyone minds being a 'background character' in the way that a lot of people think about it.

    So it's not really that they even have to view the guild's achievements as their own, but as long as they are part of the zerg, they aren't losing.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Pretty much this
    GodsRightSeat wrote: »
    "yeah, me and 1256 other people took over that dungeon, and we were so strong nobody else could do anything about it."
    GodsRightSeat wrote: »
    In a fantasy game, don't you want to be something more than a peon? To do something for yourself and stand out? I guess I'm just asking what fantasy you're looking for by playing a background character.
    Being a part of something bigger than yourself is also a fantasy. Not everyone wants to be the hero in the middle of everything. Especially when that "heroness" is equally spread to every damn player around you.

    ast8gxajxho0.gif
  • GodsRightSeatGodsRightSeat Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 1
    Ludullu wrote: »
    Being a part of something bigger than yourself is also a fantasy. Not everyone wants to be the hero in the middle of everything. Especially when that "heroness" is equally spread to every damn player around you.

    This isn't like WoW, where everyone is made to be the great savour of the universe as part of the story. Your individual talent and effort can be recognized by other people, I would argue more in this game than most others due to a much more focused effort and attention to community.

    I'll agree that not everyone can be super, at least not at the same time, but fantasy games, especially ashes, offer the chance for that opportunity to the individual, and it seems to me like you give that away when you're freely giving all your time and effort away.

    I do understand the part about being a part of something bigger than yourself, though. Which is a little sad and disappointing to me. Giving up doing anything yourself or recognition for your efforts just so you can feel like you played a part in it is something I don't think I'll ever do. I would rather be 1/50 or 1/300 with the opportunity to make a name for myself rather than a 1/8000 just to claim my name was on the guild list.



  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    it's for winning
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • ApokApok Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    this is why people start off soloing and let these groups form organically and only take on what they need. you want to act like a badass and join someones guild just to be treated like a 2nd class citizen and not get anything out of it that's your problem
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    to always have close people to play with
  • RedLeader1RedLeader1 Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    it's for winning

    I say this in every zerg thread, "I have seen no evidence that the optimal population of a Node will be "As many as possible"

    I'm also wondering if player collision is going to mean that zerg's tactical advantage is going to be that great. If you are playing 250v250 and all 250 stick together, if there is any kind of choke point fight, a lot of players are going to take a long time to push their way to the front.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited November 1
    RedLeader wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    it's for winning

    I say this in every zerg thread, "I have seen no evidence that the optimal population of a Node will be "As many as possible"

    I'm also wondering if player collision is going to mean that zerg's tactical advantage is going to be that great. If you are playing 250v250 and all 250 stick together, if there is any kind of choke point fight, a lot of players are going to take a long time to push their way to the front.

    This weapon can deal with zergs easily, it's called AWP
    Screenshot_6-1.jpg

    thumbs up if you saw the picture and the AWP sound played in your head
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 1
    As a low (edit: no) talent player, not willing to invest the time required to be a fully effective class player and be properly geared, I love zerg-on-zerg gameplay which has more of a Pell-Mell style where anything can happen but the action can still be intense.
  • JudgeMentalOneJudgeMentalOne Member, Alpha Two
    Leet guy 10000: "I don't understand how you can be happy being 1 amoungst a million that owned the hell out of a much smaller bunch of clearly better players!"

    Average Joe Average: "I don't understand why you seem to think you are the most unique snowflake, the main character, the centre of everything when it has clearly been shown that our nuby numbers trump your super skills."
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lol, claim no flame but name drops Enveus. It definitely feels like some flame.

    Zerg guilds form for a lot of reasons. Some come to be because of mass recruiting, while others happen because of mergers.

    As someone who is part of Enveus, I didn't join to be a part of a zerg guild. I was hanging out on Discord with DA a lot and he invited me. Probably the same story for most members.

    Most people who join a zerg guild don't drop all personal goals for the game in service of the guild. A lot of zerg guilds have problems organizing people since most people are doing their own thing.

    As for perks of being in a zerg, you have a lot of people to play with. Last weekend, we had 10-20 (maybe more) groups leveling and it was extremely convenient to jump around channels looking for a group with openings.

    Yes, if we are so large no one can fight us then that can be boring but Enveus isn't that big, especially compared to some of the guilds that claim they are coming to Ashes. For me, if I'm part of a guild that is too big and no one is able to give us a good fight, I'll get bored and leave.


  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 1
    GodsRightSeat wrote: »
    What is the appeal of zergs ?




    Jeah ... ... ... ... ... what could possibly be the Reason ... ... ... ... ? ... ... ... ...





    7r77qk9srnkd.jpg





    I ask myself the same Question every - single - time ... ...
    ... ... i can't quite put my finger on it ... ... ... :mrgreen:
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    In games with open world PvP typically safety
  • GodsRightSeatGodsRightSeat Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    So I guess most people enjoy it because they are close to many convent others to play and group with or they don't like to compete with much. That's reasonable.
    I only mentioned envous because it was the most recent zerg I saw and don't know many others on ashes atm.
    the point isn't to feel like you're a special little snowflake compared to zerg players, the point is to do things for yourself and have some personal achievements you can be proud of. You dont have to be the best but you can be more than zergling #2132. At least that's how I feel.
    Also, I guess some people just like to RP as cannon fodder orcs or something? Whatever the reason, thanks for everyone commenting and letting me know.
  • GithalGithal Member
    In my experience - those same people that join zerg guilds are the P2W in other games.
    The mentality is the same: "Look how strong i am. I won."
    They dont really care if they won with 1k players vs 40, or if they had 10k $ equipment and other stuff in their account vs F2P player. For them its important that they won. And this makes them feel special.
  • GodsRightSeatGodsRightSeat Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    In my experience - those same people that join zerg guilds are the P2W in other games.
    The mentality is the same: "Look how strong i am. I won."
    They dont really care if they won with 1k players vs 40, or if they had 10k $ equipment and other stuff in their account vs F2P player. For them its important that they won. And this makes them feel special.

    That's what I initially thought and it's true for those at the top, but I was wondering why the fodder would want to be exploited in that way for them.
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Usually winning is the appeal of being in a Zerg.
  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 13
    GodsRightSeat wrote: »
    I understand that the ones leading the guilds get to power trip and be lazy while the ones below funnel all the resources to them. I also understand that people new to these games might join a guild, not understanding that they are just a worthless number at the bottom. My question is, why do so many people, that presumable know what a zerg guild is, still choose to join them and sacrifice their time and individuality for people that will never acknowledge their existence beyond a number and the items they deposit.
    I'm not talking about streamer guilds because at least those people are doing it to support a streamer they like and respect with the understanding that their effort is used for that person's content. I mean guilds like Enveus and others that overpopulate entire servers. Is it because they view the guilds achievements as their own somehow? Like, "I donated wood to the guild bank, so I helped defeat that world boss." or "yeah, me and 1256 other people took over that dungeon, and we were so strong nobody else could do anything about it." It just seems so empty and sad to me, so I can't understand why people join them. In a fantasy game, don't you want to be something more than a peon? To do something for yourself and stand out? I guess I'm just asking what fantasy you're looking for by playing a background character.
    Genuine question, I wonder a lot about the people that join these guilds and why. No flame to anyone, and I know it's an unbreakable part of MMO's. Just curious about the thought process and reasons.
    Thanks in advance.

    Large scale combat is appealing to many and when you have a game that might allow a 300 guild cap and up to 3 alliances, big guilds and alliances will start forming to play those games against other large guilds. Keep in mind, a developer has some control over this when selecting things like guild size, alliance size and server size....

    Edit: I just noticed that this thread is a couple weeks old and someone revived it today. Oh well, point is still as valid as it was 2 weeks ago. 😉
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