Action camera mode - Targeting - Something have to change

Hey I'm a player who definitely prefer playing in action camera, as it gives me more control from my playstyle.
I like how ashes are doing the combat, its quite good for being this early, its on the same level atm as some released games.
I think doing action camera with a tab backend is a good way to keep the mmo playstyle but bring the action camera into the game. and if we get more skillshots its basicly perfect for me.

The issue:
The current targeting is really really bad, you have zero control of who the attacks go to, and its just misserable to play.
sometimes it focuses the closest target other times is focuses the last target you attacked, and somtimes it just picks a random target off the screen.

The solusion:
The targeting should always and i mean always be the closest to the crosshair. if people want to focus down a target they should "hard lock" the target. This way we have the control we want when in action camera. as the sole reason i prefer action camera is the ability to select the target with crosshair. and making jumping between targets easier.

General targeting improvements:
It should be possible to cast abilities on party frames with hover or allow us to have enemy target and friendly target, so we can cast healing while not loosing the target to damage.
for action camera this should be possible to select with hotkeys making actually healing trough action camera be viable.

Feature request:
Can we also get a hotkey to swap the "hard lock"/"tab target" target to target the closest target to current target making it possible to target easier inside groups. this especially helps us using action camera as there currently is no easy way to jump between targets if the target is behind some bigger target. with these changes I think the action camera mode more or less perfect.

being able to interact with people trough hotkey and having options be keyed with number and ability to select options with up/down.

also let us make auto-attack be camera mode spesific. I want autoattack in tab-camera but not in action camera

for info:
If you aim at the ground meaning no initial target and just hold in auto-attack, the targeting is pretty close to the ideal targeting.

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MinionX1

I've been having issues with this as well trying to play bard.

I want to be able to aim the reticle at an enemy and have the game target that enemy and then be able to move the reticle to a friendly, for example, and the game will know I want to target them with heals/buffs/etc.

I'm seeing I'll attack an enemy and it'll just stay attacking the enemy even if they're basically off screen and a friendly is right in front of me.

I've been trying to do a keybind for unselecting the target and cycling other targets but it's a bit cumbersome.

Also to just do a self cast I need to aim at the floor? I think I'm missing something on this one.

xiedd13ix

Zettrex wrote: »

Hey I'm a player who definitely prefer playing in action camera, as it gives me more control from my playstyle.
I like how ashes are doing the combat, its quite good for being this early, its on the same level atm as some released games.
I think doing action camera with a tab backend is a good way to keep the mmo playstyle but bring the action camera into the game. and if we get more skillshots its basicly perfect for me.

The issue:
The current targeting is really really bad, you have zero control of who the attacks go to, and its just misserable to play.
sometimes it focuses the closest target other times is focuses the last target you attacked, and somtimes it just picks a random target off the screen.

The solusion:
The targeting should always and i mean always be the closest to the crosshair. if people want to focus down a target they should "hard lock" the target. This way we have the control we want when in action camera. as the sole reason i prefer action camera is the ability to select the target with crosshair. and making jumping between targets easier.

General targeting improvements:
It should be possible to cast abilities on party frames with hover or allow us to have enemy target and friendly target, so we can cast healing while not loosing the target to damage.
for action camera this should be possible to select with hotkeys making actually healing trough action camera be viable.

Feature request:
Can we also get a hotkey to swap the "hard lock"/"tab target" target to target the closest target to current target making it possible to target easier inside groups. this especially helps us using action camera as there currently is no easy way to jump between targets if the target is behind some bigger target. with these changes I think the action camera mode more or less perfect.

being able to interact with people trough hotkey and having options be keyed with number and ability to select options with up/down.

also let us make auto-attack be camera mode spesific. I want autoattack in tab-camera but not in action camera

for info:
If you aim at the ground meaning no initial target and just hold in auto-attack, the targeting is pretty close to the ideal targeting.

I agree with this but to also add some quality of life features for example opening inventory should bring up mouse. but if you leave inventory open and go back to action combat it should then stay on screen

Slipree

xiedd13ix wrote: »

Zettrex wrote: »

Hey I'm a player who definitely prefer playing in action camera, as it gives me more control from my playstyle.
I like how ashes are doing the combat, its quite good for being this early, its on the same level atm as some released games.
I think doing action camera with a tab backend is a good way to keep the mmo playstyle but bring the action camera into the game. and if we get more skillshots its basicly perfect for me.

The issue:
The current targeting is really really bad, you have zero control of who the attacks go to, and its just misserable to play.
sometimes it focuses the closest target other times is focuses the last target you attacked, and somtimes it just picks a random target off the screen.

The solusion:
The targeting should always and i mean always be the closest to the crosshair. if people want to focus down a target they should "hard lock" the target. This way we have the control we want when in action camera. as the sole reason i prefer action camera is the ability to select the target with crosshair. and making jumping between targets easier.

General targeting improvements:
It should be possible to cast abilities on party frames with hover or allow us to have enemy target and friendly target, so we can cast healing while not loosing the target to damage.
for action camera this should be possible to select with hotkeys making actually healing trough action camera be viable.

Feature request:
Can we also get a hotkey to swap the "hard lock"/"tab target" target to target the closest target to current target making it possible to target easier inside groups. this especially helps us using action camera as there currently is no easy way to jump between targets if the target is behind some bigger target. with these changes I think the action camera mode more or less perfect.

being able to interact with people trough hotkey and having options be keyed with number and ability to select options with up/down.

also let us make auto-attack be camera mode spesific. I want autoattack in tab-camera but not in action camera

for info:
If you aim at the ground meaning no initial target and just hold in auto-attack, the targeting is pretty close to the ideal targeting.

I agree with this but to also add some quality of life features for example opening inventory should bring up mouse. but if you leave inventory open and go back to action combat it should then stay on screen

100% switching from action mode to "ui mode" and back is a buggy mess atm. sometimes you get in action mode, but the cursor is still moving. It has gotten me killed.

MinionX1

Slipree wrote: »

xiedd13ix wrote: »

Zettrex wrote: »

Hey I'm a player who definitely prefer playing in action camera, as it gives me more control from my playstyle.
I like how ashes are doing the combat, its quite good for being this early, its on the same level atm as some released games.
I think doing action camera with a tab backend is a good way to keep the mmo playstyle but bring the action camera into the game. and if we get more skillshots its basicly perfect for me.

The issue:
The current targeting is really really bad, you have zero control of who the attacks go to, and its just misserable to play.
sometimes it focuses the closest target other times is focuses the last target you attacked, and somtimes it just picks a random target off the screen.

The solusion:
The targeting should always and i mean always be the closest to the crosshair. if people want to focus down a target they should "hard lock" the target. This way we have the control we want when in action camera. as the sole reason i prefer action camera is the ability to select the target with crosshair. and making jumping between targets easier.

General targeting improvements:
It should be possible to cast abilities on party frames with hover or allow us to have enemy target and friendly target, so we can cast healing while not loosing the target to damage.
for action camera this should be possible to select with hotkeys making actually healing trough action camera be viable.

Feature request:
Can we also get a hotkey to swap the "hard lock"/"tab target" target to target the closest target to current target making it possible to target easier inside groups. this especially helps us using action camera as there currently is no easy way to jump between targets if the target is behind some bigger target. with these changes I think the action camera mode more or less perfect.

being able to interact with people trough hotkey and having options be keyed with number and ability to select options with up/down.

also let us make auto-attack be camera mode spesific. I want autoattack in tab-camera but not in action camera

for info:
If you aim at the ground meaning no initial target and just hold in auto-attack, the targeting is pretty close to the ideal targeting.

I agree with this but to also add some quality of life features for example opening inventory should bring up mouse. but if you leave inventory open and go back to action combat it should then stay on screen

100% switching from action mode to "ui mode" and back is a buggy mess atm. sometimes you get in action mode, but the cursor is still moving. It has gotten me killed.

This was happening to me constantly today. A real annoyance. I had to drag my cursor all over the place for it to finally figure itself out.

Zettrex

Action camera has worsened in the last several updates.

Right now you also struggle to attack or cast abilities even if you have crosshair over target or even if you have target targeted with focus-target or tab-target in action camera.

and what you have to do is swap into tab target cast an ability (sometimes need to tab to the same target again) and then swap back to action camera. Sometimes it works by interacting with e interface (open and close, the one worked the most is escape menu)

This is making me have to play tab-camera even if my preference is action-camera.
When its working its so good game-play, targeting is still not fixed and if that gets fixed its gonna be amazing to play in action camera mode.

Can we please get some focus on fixing this issue?

Zettrex

This is a perfect illustation of how bad the state of this targeting is.
I can aim dead center (know its off center in screenshot) at a target infront of me.
But it will not target but it wants to target something way off to the left instead

Can we please get a update on the targeting in the game.
Make it in action to always target closest to crosshair unless focus-target, or tab-target selected an enemy.

and the tab-targeting in the game is also horrible it does not should select based on your viewing direction to start then it should select close to the previous target before going way off to the side or off screen.

Also the target selection is super short when in tab-camera you can select miles away. let us focus target mobs further way then we can hit.

StrifeCJ

My current issues with targeting as an action cam enjoyer

The default range of looking at a npc/player to target them is way too short. I need the ability to target players before they are within my attack range. personally i would want it infinite range so if i see players in the far far distance i can mouseover to see who it is, like a classic cam would be able to click on the target

tab target (cycle targeting is bad) If I'm switching focus and there are targetables in between, I would have to press Tab multiple times to focus on them. why cant i just tab and focus the target im looking at.

Target hard lock, the alternative to cycle targets, works, but it has different issues. Having to click to unlock and click again to lock is not consistent. Issues with enemy and friendly targets: Hard lock does not always react the way you want it to. my personal preference would be to click to lock and just click to lock to next target, no unlock option (esc can do that for you)

Bugs ive found.
- Sometimes action cam gets locked forward. i can still move with wasd but moving mouse does not turn my character, spamming adadadad fixes this but its annoying.
- When i esc a hardlock or tabbed target, the action cam will not pickup a new target unless i completly reset my view away from any targetable objects
-

Birqa

action mode feels only 10% implemented compared to tab mode.
i agree with the cursor targeting being really bad as @Zettrex screenshot mentioned. as well as the vision range differences, ui interaction being cumbersome and some bugs.
theres still the bug after dying in action mode that the character starts walking forward when auto attacking which can be fixed by going in tab mode and back. but yeah thats how bad it feels sometimes.

the key addition for greed pass all is a step but if i wanna know what item im rolling on i need to switch to tab mode look at it and then decide. same for needing for items. action mode makes me press z way to often. in a perfect world i wouldnt swap modes at all.

to give another example on healing and targeting issues: i used jest on my tank to give them a hot and then i want to keep using basic attacks on the enemy but the game tells me "invalid target" because it doesnt register that i moved my cursor over to the enemy npc. only tabbing onto that npc fixes that which is almost being back to tab mode again.

also a nice quality of life thing would be if i could cast on myself without making me the friendly target at the same time. atm i first need to target myself then use the heal then untarget myself and then im able to heal the tank as example again just to be in the next buggy mess ^^

if you can make the system as responsive as ESO where you, for example,can only use your Shied Charge when the enemy is within range (aka not real action combat) and the same for healing skills like Natures Grasp, it would be as close to perfect as i can imagine.

i already made some reports on that topic but didnt see any info on if thats somewhere on your list and if you are aware of those issues.
i just hope that we get there soon to make both playstyles viable.

Mayhem

Improvements def needed (hopefully before beta) 🙏
Hard Lock Hold Option (Not override other keybinds so i can bind this and weapon attack to LMB)
Remove Soft Lock in Action Cam option (or whatever makes skills lock you to a target)
🙏

Bribzy

Somewhat related, somewhat unrelated, would very much like to see a "Hold X to self target with skill" option.

Right click to target self works for tab target characters, if a little less customizable than I would like, but it doesn't work at all for action cam. There is always F1 to target self as well, but that ends up locking to self and requires additional input to remove.

Trying to use intercept on Tank, whether or not self targeting, is a miserable experience in action cam unfortunately.

Zettrex

Bribzy wrote: »

Somewhat related, somewhat unrelated, would very much like to see a "Hold X to self target with skill" option.

Right click to target self works for tab target characters, if a little less customizable than I would like, but it doesn't work at all for action cam. There is always F1 to target self as well, but that ends up locking to self and requires additional input to remove.

Trying to use intercept on Tank, whether or not self targeting, is a miserable experience in action cam unfortunately.

Yeah I think something like that would actually make a decent change having more keybind options to temp target would indeed make a huge change.

Zettrex

Mayhem wrote: »

Improvements def needed (hopefully before beta) 🙏
Hard Lock Hold Option (Not override other keybinds so i can bind this and weapon attack to LMB)
Remove Soft Lock in Action Cam option (or whatever makes skills lock you to a target)
🙏

definitely agree. The soft lock is misseralble in action camera, and we should be allowed to turn it off. that combined with fixing the targeting would do alot for making the game actually be playable in action camera.

Zettrex

I have found another bug or quirk with the action camera and that is if you tab-target an enemy in action camera now you can never target again using your cursor or focus target sometimes.

Vaknar

This is a good look into how current camera and targeting behaviors are being experienced!

It’s helpful to hear where testers are encountering friction in action mode, especially when switching between different targeting inputs. For those who’ve experimented with both styles, what have you noticed in terms of usability differences or areas where each feels stronger or weaker?

Ludullu

Vaknar wrote: »

For those who’ve experimented with both styles, what have you noticed in terms of usability differences or areas where each feels stronger or weaker?

I haven't used tab pretty much at all, but I can sure say that switching targets in Action mode is near-impossible. The stickiness of the targeting is way too much. The hitboxes are insanely huge. The inability to just press a button and, as long as my crosshair is on a target, get that target fully locked - is horrible.

Zettrex

Vaknar wrote: »

This is a good look into how current camera and targeting behaviors are being experienced!

It’s helpful to hear where testers are encountering friction in action mode, especially when switching between different targeting inputs. For those who’ve experimented with both styles, what have you noticed in terms of usability differences or areas where each feels stronger or weaker?

I think having expectations both camera styles are going to be both amazing at everything at every situation is unrealistic. I am more then happy to be forced to go into tab camera when I'm on a healer to have the best option, but be able to play it in action camera when its not a big group play.

I would like to see where the action camera is leaning on the ability to maybe swap fast between and alternate between the targets fast by aiming between two entities, at the cost of having less control with party then in tab, and with grouped up entities. where the player of action camera would use focus target and have to target by proxy of the tab system.

And if there was ability to make hovering over target either be friendly prio or enemy prio by a toggle button that would been amazing.

I like both playstyles overall. Action camera is immersive and work superb in high action situations, whereas the tab camera is superb when tactics and slow action is important.

Right now your not able to play ashes in action camera as you're a reliability in a group since your abilities or attack might attack and pull something way off screen randomly, and where focus targeting isnt reliable either and can cause you to not even be able to cast or attack since it cant target anything suddenly, or where if you attack the wrong target now your forced to tabtarget anyways.

Birqa

Vaknar wrote: »

For those who’ve experimented with both styles, what have you noticed in terms of usability differences or areas where each feels stronger or weaker?

as a action combat enjoyer, for me combat feels more fluid with the action mode as long as i only focus on enemy npcs. there is tuning needed as the already mentioned soft target lock being too restrictive.
as example on how to work on this: some aim assist is normal for action mmos. what i noticed playing other games is that when i have two targets that are close to another, when i hover my cursor more that half to the other target the aim switches immediately. thats something im sure you can do as well with your coding.

i think the way you designed the archetypes it wont be possible to get cleric into a well playable state for action camera users. therefore i would be happy if this could be achieved for bards summoners and classes with cleric bard secondaries. you already have some smart healing/mana restoration for the bard in place. if you can expand on that. then the mentioned characters will be to some exent be viable for action camera users.

targeting, for pvp in range especially feels way weaker as action camera user. imo making the range in which you can click on another player/cursor hover over them should be the same. that would probably mean tuning the tab range a bit down while extending the action mode quite a bit. currently i would say its near impossible to shotcall as a action camera player since you just cant see the targets nameplates, nor mark them properly.

ui interaction and having automatically switch it between action and "tab" is pretty placeholder imo.

immersion is imo the strong point for action camera. i just feel more like i am my character.

generally you need to work on walls being objects that interfer with abilities more realiably. naming ball lighting or scattershot going through walls/trees as example. i assume that this is somewhere on the list but as long as i dont hear its on their i keep mentioning it

so thats a short list of things that needs work. it would be great if you were able to share what from our missing points is on the internal list. a lot of players mentioned great points on that.

thx for asking specifically for feedback on this

ps. after yesterdays livestream: it would be great if we could hover over the new caravan nameplate to get the same interaction options as tab users

SmileGurney

Ludullu wrote: »

Vaknar wrote: »

For those who’ve experimented with both styles, what have you noticed in terms of usability differences or areas where each feels stronger or weaker?

I haven't used tab pretty much at all, but I can sure say that switching targets in Action mode is near-impossible. The stickiness of the targeting is way too much. The hitboxes are insanely huge. The inability to just press a button and, as long as my crosshair is on a target, get that target fully locked - is horrible.

There is an option in the settings which lowers the time required to switch targets, it actually makes action mode targeting more usable.

A side note to targetting:

@Vaknar BOTH action mode and tab target should have a keybind which allows you to switch target to the target which is being currently in your crosshairs. This would resolve a lot of targetting frustrations currently in the game.

The game has quite a lot of input latency, this is partially caused by DLSS, and general lack of optimization. I really feel it when trying to select players with a cursor.

Having different color schemes for the cursor itself, for example by making it bright red, blue would also help, as the current cursor is heavily stylised, and I heard quite a few people reporting that they lose track of it. Some desperate individuals use software like YoloMouse - Game Cursor Changer to make it easier to track it, but I'm sure that adds a performance hit.

Ludullu

SmileGurney wrote: »

There is an option in the settings which lowers the time required to switch targets, it actually makes action mode targeting more usable.

Will need to check it out, cause I've had quite a few frustrating moments when trying to target the correct mob during an aoe encounter.

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