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Is it intentional that tank mana becomes the number one bottleneck for farming groups?

sunaurussunaurus Member, Alpha Two
edited November 9 in Tank Archetype
As a long time tank main, I realized a long time ago that tanking FEELS the worst at times when you are slowing down your party. So far in other games, I have only ever felt this feeling when the rest of the party can just cover ground much quicker than you do as a tank. Thankfully, tank mobility is not a problem at all in Ashes. However, due to how mana-reliant tanks are for basic functions, I still constantly feel like I am slowing down my groups.

Over the past 24 hours of farming, I must have asked my groups to wait for me to recover mana at least 5x as often as any of the mages or clerics I've been playing with. It just feels bad to be the single most mana-reliant role in any of my groups. It doesn't help that apparently actual casters benefit much more from Bard mana buffs than tanks do.

My personal opinion is that tanks as a whole would feel much better if they were more cooldown and proc dependent, rather than mana dependent. But if mana is a core part of the vision for tanks, then what about moving the more crucial aspects, like threat generation & survivability, to be cooldown based, and only leave actual raw damage output to be mana-dependent? That way, we could choose to sacrifice damage in order to still always be ready to protect our groups whenever we are needed.

Comments

  • SonicXplosionSonicXplosion Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 10
    Agreed, Tanks are really mana dependent right now because they are the arcehtype that is the most ability dependent (which imo is a good thing (the ability part, not the mana part)). As a Tank you basically need to run Refreshing Followthrough on both weapons.
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  • sunaurussunaurus Member, Alpha Two
    The mana issues seem to be solved in the latest patch!
  • Miller5862Miller5862 Member, Alpha Two
    sunaurus wrote: »
    The mana issues seem to be solved in the latest patch!

    how so?
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    pretty sure this is true in literally every mmo.
  • zxbiohazardzxzxbiohazardzx Member, Alpha Two
    Solution would be to shift some abilities over to Courage instead of Mana to help balance it out
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Bard here, have not seen tanks having the mana issue. Rangers and Mages loves to push me. But then again, since last week - I have not seen any mana issues from anyone as I pretty much can keep everyone full now after understand the old and new resonant weapon changes.

    Either your bard sucks or you're not running a bard in the comp.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • RfaliasRfalias Member, Alpha Two
    Don't spam skills just because they are up. Once you grab threat, I find you can basically autoattack to keep it. Aside from doing reflect or knockdowns to manage the mob, mana is fine. If you are struggling, get the mana buff from a cleric.
  • sunaurussunaurus Member, Alpha Two
    Miller5862 wrote: »
    sunaurus wrote: »
    The mana issues seem to be solved in the latest patch!

    how so?

    I haven't had to eat a single ration for mana this weekend. Perhaps something was bugged last weekend, or perhaps they just heavily buffed some mana regen talents/skills, but it just hasn't been an issue anymore as far as I can tell!
    ShivaFang wrote: »
    pretty sure this is true in literally every mmo.

    Definitely not in the big ones. It's FAR more common for tanks to be more reliant on resources which are built up during combat, rather than outside combat.

    Solution would be to shift some abilities over to Courage instead of Mana to help balance it out

    Definitely agree, courage is severely under-utilized at the moment, but I'm also guessing that's just because of how early the game is in the Alpha process.
    Rfalias wrote: »
    Don't spam skills just because they are up. Once you grab threat, I find you can basically autoattack to keep it. Aside from doing reflect or knockdowns to manage the mob, mana is fine. If you are struggling, get the mana buff from a cleric.

    Mana regen is indeed fine in this patch, as mentioned a few posts above! But just wanted to point out that if hypothetically it was not fixed, then your idea of just auto-attacking being the optimal approach to tanking is really not a good solution, for a few reasons. First and foremost, it's just extremely boring gameplay. But also, it is punishing towards players who want to push higher DPS (both directly through tank DPS, but also indirectly, by making actual damage dealers afraid of pulling off the tank due to reduced tank aggro generation).
  • RfaliasRfalias Member, Alpha Two
    sunaurus wrote: »
    .....

    Mana regen is indeed fine in this patch, as mentioned a few posts above! But just wanted to point out that if hypothetically it was not fixed, then your idea of just auto-attacking being the optimal approach to tanking is really not a good solution, for a few reasons. First and foremost, it's just extremely boring gameplay. But also, it is punishing towards players who want to push higher DPS (both directly through tank DPS, but also indirectly, by making actual damage dealers afraid of pulling off the tank due to reduced tank aggro generation).

    Oh 100% agree that it's boring, our kit needs more useful things. I never had one issue with threat after using taunt and inciting strikes. I literally went afk for 2 minutes during a fight with a high HP tank mob and it was no issue at all. Tank damage contribution is effectively nothing even spamming skills so I didn't bother.
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    edited 2:11AM
    Damage dealers should be afraid of pulling from a 'generic' tank. It's pivotal that damage dealers know how to manage aggro - especially when there are multiple targets on one tank. (This will be different when tank/tank exists)
    The game should normalize not going full hog on all your abilities all the time. This is the main reason for most of the complaints about mana.

    That said - get the cleric to bless the tank's weapon and have the bard run Mystery and Pensive Melody with Hymnn of the Mind (one bard should be doing this anyway in every group). Tanks don't currently have a problem with Mana if you are doing this.

    And if you don't have a bard, you absolutely should be taking it slower or be prepared to be sitting more often.
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