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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
So I guess Guilds >> Node citizenship? Lame *UPDATE* - City Chat Exists
Xeeg
Member, Alpha Two
No Node chat.
No way to tell who is a node citizen.
But instead we get guild tags on our names and dedicated guild chat?
I thought the idea behind this game was that Node Citizenship was supposed to be MORE important than joining some mass spam guild?
Lame
*UPDATE*
Either i'm blind and bitching about nothing or they snuck one on me. We have City chat, only for citizens....
=D
No way to tell who is a node citizen.
But instead we get guild tags on our names and dedicated guild chat?
I thought the idea behind this game was that Node Citizenship was supposed to be MORE important than joining some mass spam guild?
Lame
*UPDATE*
Either i'm blind and bitching about nothing or they snuck one on me. We have City chat, only for citizens....
=D
3
Comments
I'd personally put precedence on people that I am in a guild with because I like them, rather than people I am in a node with because they decided to join the metropolis I helped build.
Already in A2 with the different node types and mayoral buildings, I can definitely see why guilds want to split up into different nodes depending on the benefits. Add to that the social orgs and more mayoral stuff and node wars.. I can see guilds getting into internal guild drama over it.
It's the vision that Steven outlined, it's the vision that I want to see implemented.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Affiliations
Yeah but the servers were down and I wanted to complain about something.
Global is overused
I know it's what he said, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing, kr a possible thing.
You put this notion to most MMO players - explain to them the open nature of joining a node and the closed nature of joining a guild, then tell them the games designer had the intention of trying to make people look at node citizenship as their primary social construct - and watch them laugh.
5he fact that so many people are already in the guild they intent to be playing Ashes in, and the notion that nodes are designed to be temporary rather than permanant, and the whole thing really is just a joke.
Just because Steven said it, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Honestly id rather just do away with the guilds altogether and only have nodes... shrug
That's the way it's intended to go, and it's the design Ashes caught a lot of people's attention.
But Ashes is actively designed against committing to that idea.
- You're incentivised to go out and actively level up other nodes that have more valuable rewards than your node.
- You're incentivised to leave your node and join another one, if your node was vassalized by a regent you disagree with, because there are no tools to overthrow your existing ruler from the inside.
Node pride and node progression is meant to be something you unintentionally implement through the choices you were going to make naturally anyway, not something you view as a greater purpose to your decisions. As such, node affiliation was never going to be anywhere near as significant as the group you actively join because you like it.I agree it would be cool.
But it wouldn't be possible with the basic concept of nodes as Ashes has them.
The first thing that would need to happen is a mechanic for restricting membership. It's hard to be "proud" of something you are a part of that literally anyone else can also be a part of if they wish to be. Everyone not in your node is not in it by choice, as opposed to guilds where if you are actually a good guild, people become envious of the guilds members.
So, I'm not saying the concept of nodes being what people identify primarily as being a part of is a bad thing, I'm saying Ashes is just not set up for thst to be the case at all.
It's almost as if the game is being designed by someone that doesn't actually understand players.
What type of node you want depends on what's already available elsewhere, because it makes no sense to have blacksmiths levelled everywhere. That makes coordination between nodes important, which in turn creates politics, which creates friction and conflict.
You can't have nodes without some way to rally and organise players, and the more social features nodes will offer, the easier it will become.
One thing to remember: Players are actively disincentivised to form small, social groups of friends, because that will make them vulnerable (to be declared war on) and offer nothing in return. Players have every reason to join the biggest zergs they can join, because the rule of the land is "might makes right". The only way to get away with having a small, close knit guild is to live somewhere far away from the large cities, in a small to medium size nodes with likeminded small guilds that work together.
So you'll find that both nodes and guilds will have importance, but it might be more fun to some people to play in an environment with less zergs and more node-centred gameplay.
Well, then don't be surprised when this game doesn't have alot of mass appeal other than the people who have already bought into it and joined guilds.
Most of u join guilds randomly anyways. I don't even want to be in a guild, i just feel like I "have" to.
Changing the game design because a bunch of people created/joined guilds based on their understanding of other game designs is a bad idea.
This is why I am complaining. The whole idea of the Node being more important is part of what drew me to this game. Guild VS Guild being the focus of PVP and group content is lame, boring, tired old game design.
This is EXACTLY the point. Everyone gets to go become a citizen of a node, its much more inclusive. Guilds are an exclusive group.
Focusing on guilds will isolate the player base and make new/unaffiliated players feel useless and left out.
Focusing on Nodes will let any player feel involved and part of the world and able to contribute.
I'd much prefer the latter.
Node chat has been needed since Alpha -1; it's crucial for knowing who you can collaborate with and who you can't
You gotta create the sense of node patriotism so you can stick people together with the node goals and sieges
I've never assumed this game would have mass appeal.
It is one of the most niche MMO's I've ever seen.
Yes.
And that is why people in guilds will always put the guid first.
The game will get node chat eventually - there should be no doubt about that.
However, the notion that guild will ever be considered less important than node is simply not a factor of game design. It isn't something Steven has control over.
Well, you have your vision of the game, and I have mine. All i am asking for are the tools to help make the node community strong. They implemented the guild stuff already, so clearly that is their priority.
Brutally said.
But You are on to something. I can not feel Citizenship at all. Right now i haven't even seen a Chat with the Name of the Node where oneself is a Citizen at.
I mean, i get it.
This is the most stony, rough Beginning of all time.
But it is noticeable what all is missing. Also must probably be because i play with an English Client and my Motherlanguage is originally German - but i have an incredibly strong Sensation of some Information just passing me by.
What for Example can we be Citizens for aside from paying Taxes ? I know Mayors were elected already but i haven't even got Wind of a single Election. Maybe because i was "to late" when i joined - but i wonder AND DOUBT that i would have been alerted if there was an Election.
Right now everything feels still super-placeholder~ish* .
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
Again, they will come.
However, it isn't a "vision for the game" to say that people will prioritize their guild over their node.
I mean, even your arguments go against people putting their node first. If you have a choice between losing your guild or your node, a new node will always be easier to find than a new guild.
The notion that people (note: people, not game design) will put their non-exclusive, easily replaceable, designed to be temporary node over their hand selected, nurtured, permanant guild of often real life friends and family is just ridiculous to even contemplate.
I've been in a guild with one particular guy since 2005. I flew half way around the world to go to his wedding. He has a child named after me. I do not see any way at all that I would put 1000 random people that just happened to decide to make the same node as me their in game home over this guild member.
That is what a real guild is. It is real connections with the people behind the characters. Nodes aren't that. Nodes can never be that. Steven doesn't understand what guilds are because he has never been a part of a real guild. He looks at guilds as being about characters, and what use they are to him in furthering his in game goals (he has said many times that he is essentially a complete dick in games).
I'm hoping the above there will help you in understanding why Steven said what he did, and why he is so wrong about it.
I just left my guild.
No one is stopping you from having whatever relationships you want in life. We are talking about game systems here. What game systems are there to promote node relationships and what systems are there to promote guild relationships. Sounds like you had your guild long before Ashes of Creation so it doesn't seem like they need to do alot on their end to support that end of things.
Call it a guild, call it a gang, call it a group of people who share a game tag, have their own chat, and some game perks...
The "guild" system is lower ranking than the "node" system as far as the game design is concerned. That's the point.
Then the Node would defacto act as guild-alliances (and be a replacement for the current alliance system). Nodes would then be the bodies engaging in diplomacy as quasi-nations, vassalizing and warring with Node-nations psudo-faction like.
Yes, like many people, I have had a guild for years. Across dozens of games. We've even been a guild in games that some of our guild members have helped make.
It isn't at all uncommon for people to be in guilds for longer than they are in any individual game. Sure, some guilds are just a bunch of people that don't know any better, and think their "guild" is the in game systems the game they are playing gives them. However, those people are missing out on 90% of what make MMO's great.
Node chat will happen.
We have been told it will be present in the finished game - but this is an alpha test.
Instead you had nodes taking their place, so you'd have to all join the same node if you wanted a common chat and other social tools, and joining/leaving would be on the individual instead of the organisation.
This would lead to much drama and to mega guilds imploding left and right, and to people finding new friends simply by liking the same node/environment. They'd never met others if not for the node. This sounds like a very interesting approach to me.
Or just keep both systems; this is probably what they intend to do.
While an interesting thought experiment, keep in mind the main reasons developers want guilds in MMORPG's - personal connections keep people in the game longer.
Nodes and such could well perform the "us vs them" tribal role that some games also use guilds for.
Tha said, the best analogy of what a node is in relation to other games is that of a faction, not that of a guild.
guilds = group of people
nodes = group of people
your argument is "guilds should be prioritized because people join based on certain commonalities and desires"
but nodes are also a group of people and people organize into nodes based on certain commonalities (character material/social benefits from the node system they developed) and desires so why shouldn't they be prioritized equally to guilds?
specifically, why are the reasons for people forming guilds better than reasons for people forming nodes???
I think the point of the node system is to cause fraction in mega guilds that need to take multiple nodes anyway