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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Where and how to PVP
Gromlof
Member
I was thinking to myself why going with a flaging system for the pvp ? Why not a faction system ? Flaging system turn you into a criminel if you want to pvp, sure the reward can be worth it but in the end i don't want to get punish for doing pvp in a pvp game. Faction base pvp is best for me and also prevent the guys who kill noobs freshly logged in the game because the factions would not spawn there characters at the same place. In archeage it was faction base it was great (Add Pirate faction aswell why not ?) In wow back in the days Faction base and open world pvp was great. Other option is you keep this flagging system (just anable it at lvl 5 maybe ?) but you add faction pvp on top of that like if i declare this guilde as hostile then i can freely pvp with them without being punish for it. Or maybe this religion is hostile to this religion. Pvp can be motivated by a lot of things but in the end some player me included just want to pvp because they like it and faction base pvp accomplish that where criminal based system doesn't.
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Comments
Clearly you didn’t keep playing NW, it eventually became one faction dominated in the server and then everyone eventually would join and it would be run by 1 big faction
The current system has areas that are non corrupted lawless areas where open world PvP can happen without punishment, so maybe we give it a chance before straight away trying to change something you are yet to experience
We have only been exposed to a small portion of this world in this Alpha phase
That's what declaring wars between guilds and nodes, as well as sieging nodes and castles, is for.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guild_wars
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_wars
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_sieges
Caravans fill some of the time between these rather large events.
If you're still worried about the frequency of these activities, I shared your concern in the past, but I've made a thread about it, and the responses pointed out some ways in which the existing PvP systems were already open for regular action aside from the primetime activities.
Factions are one way for persistent PvP to turn out well, but it's not the way Ashes has chosen. The mix of Nodes and guilds provides a sufficient mix of PvP objectives though.
This one in particular really um... 'anti-resonates'?
"Flagging system turns you into a criminal if you want to PvP." I know we've discussed this over and over by now but seriously, what? A2 is live now...
I don't understand what you where trying to say in your comment except maybe that you disagree right ? Try be more clear im not that fluant in english i wont understand all the jokes and stuff.
So much concern for one simple solution Factions like in Wow or Archeage in top of the node system of AOC.
Ah, sorry.
Yes, I disagree really strongly, because Flagging for PvP and attacking someone has zero negative effects on your character until you kill them, and that only applies if they didn't fight back at any point.
I don't know if you already know this or not, but if you didn't, maybe it will change your mind. If it doesn't, it means that we can assume your comment "I don't want to be punished for doing PvP in a PvP game" applies even if your opponent doesn't fight back at all.
I think that players who want to kill targets who don't fight back should be treated as criminals, but just attacking to start PvP doesn't cause that.
Ok That is good and maybe it will do im just offering suggestions i want the game to be as good as possible.
What about the huge alliances tho ?
I think we should definitely continue to discuss those issues, in the community.
The problems that huge alliances will cause for you and players like you, are not easy to change in games like Ashes, they are part of the intended design.
In Throne and Liberty, for example, since I don't play on an Early Access server with extremely dominant top guilds, it is not difficult for my group to progress. We just go to areas that are lower in priority to the top guilds, when those guilds are off doing something more important. And for things like PvP practice, we can use 'capped' events like Dominion ones (Blood Mushroom and stuff like that).
Ashes is the opposite in that aspect, it will probably be easier to get small-group PvP practice because of the greater world size and slower leveling, whereas TL needs to expand the map more before that happens.
But my point is, I think both games can solve this problem in the same way. TL needs a bigger world so that they can have more Conflict content at the same time (for people who want PvP and aren't satisfied with the dungeons at night) and Ashes needs to adopt many of the good parts of how TL controls events and guild sizes.
Ashes will probably not offer any way to really 'stand up to' the top guilds, but it just needs to offer ways to move between them.
I don't Think AOC should adopt anything from TL it's a perfect exemple of things that i would like to avoid in AOC.
The Size of the map and the absence of tp is a good point tho you are right on that, you wont have the possiblity for 100 players + to all tp on the spot for the battle and then tp again for the other one.
I keep thinking implementing faction could atleast be put to the test 2 factions is the best for me (maybe a pirate one on top) AOC you have the PTR and the game is still far from release why not try it in a simple implementation like a very basic one that can be code in a afternoon.
The Risk vs Reward for becoming corrupted DOES NOT MATCH.
There is too big risk for killing green player, and the Reward is too small.
And the way it should work is: With big risk comes big reward.
The way the current system works is like:
Imagine you walk in the streets, you see some merchant selling fruits. You steal 4 apples and 2 bananas.
Then you get caught by the police and they CUT BOTH YOUR HANDS as penalty. It just doesnt match.
You should probably elaborate on your perfect example, then. I am obviously biased because I like TL quite a lot in comparison, but since TL PvP is literally either:
"My Guild (Alliance), which acts as my Faction, determines my enemies" and "I am in a Dominion Event where I am temporarily anonymously assigned a Faction", I can't say that I understand what you'd be against, if you want Faction gameplay.
Anyway, Ashes is going to have Guild Alliances so large that they might as well be Factions, and will have room for many players, would that be good enough for you?
You could join an alliance of 1200 people and probably fight another alliance of 1200 people.
Isn't this moreso the situation in which you killed the merchant and took everything even after they begged you to stop?
I said "Flagging for PvP and attacking someone has zero negative effects on your character until you kill them".
Do you mean that attacking green players is too risky because of the TTK problem and the ability to accidentally kill them instead of just chasing them off? I haven't experienced that yet.
No the situation is not where you kill the merchant. Why? Because the merchant will respawn. And all he will lose is some exp. little glint and mats and little time to reach his previous location after respawning.
Killing a merchant in real life is completely different... The equivalent to the in game will be if your character gets deleted if you die (similar to the hardcore difficulty in Diablo)
I dont see any reason to attack green player if you are not going to kill them. Maybe just to scare them or to try to see if they want to do consensual pvp.
Ofc i am against griefing. But killing green player for the opportunity to get gather some rare material that he is trying to get in front of you, or taming some rare mount for the animal husbandry and other such stuff should not be punished by the game.
You can still engage in combat, etc. The game will treat you like you're a monster while you're Corrupt.
And you will get a few extra penalties when you die.
Losing 4 items is brutal enough.
The point is that killing without griefing should not give any penalties at all, and you should not get corruption at all for it.
Maybe the only penalty should be that you are Combatant for lets say the next 10 hours and cant become non combatant , But you are not with corruption.
Wait, just so we're clear...
Do you understand that the current Corruption setting is more punishing than it is expected to be in the live game (maybe even in later test phases)?
Like, you said it's disproportionate, it's supposed to be, for this testing. You're not supposed to be testing PvP incentives right now. The primary purpose of this Alpha now is to provide what they sold, probably because some other things didn't work out as planned.
There are many reasons to tune the Corruption system to be like this, in this Phase. You don't even need to give feedback on it, it's not relevant.
"Criminal activity should have no consequences..."
Trolls gonna troll.
I would agree that the thing that happened to Asmond was sort of criminal act.
But i dont agree that killing green player in order to gain access to rare gathering resources or farming spot or some other sort of in game opportunity should make you criminal.
Just ask yourself how many thousands of people were killed by the USA in order for the country to get access to Petrol.
The way the corruption system works now is too convenient for green players to get all farm spots and no one to be able to remove them from there. This should not be the case at all. If you want the best spot - fight for it.
If you dont want to PVP then find some low quality farm spot where no one will kill you at
PS: Start thinking and listening to what other people have to say before calling them names. Coz guess what this makes you if you dont...
It's crazy you're using invading other countries to try and defend your answer as if that's not an awful thing.
Nonetheless, I agree that only (and only) your first non-consensual kill should come with maybe an experience decrease. I don't think you should get so hindered and drop gear on your first kill. Anything after that should 100% come with epic consequences.
Anyway this aspect isn't changing in AoC for sure.
Where did i say that this is not awful? Ofc its awful. But did they get penalty for this? No. Why? Because they make it in the form of WAR or "helping a country that is in war with other country". In the end they get what they want and there is no consequences at all.
I think the solution will require to be a lot more complicated than this. Like the areas should be distributed a "PVP Threat" to them. Like The Spawn location of the FIrebrand is S tier threat. Meaning that You will have to kill the same guy a lot of times before you get corrupted. Areas with rare crafting materials can be A tier where you can kill players up to 5-6 times. And ofc the regular areas with low tier crafting materials, and mobs that give regular exp/items and ect where if you kill green player you get corrupted instantly like it is now,
Also in S and A threat levels areas you shouldnt be getting instant corruption even if you kill lower level players. But if you kill lower level player in B threat level (for examplee a great exp farming spot) you get instant corruption, but if you kill player your level you can kill him 3-4 times
There are currently a lot of loopholes in the pvp flagging system, they have said it is not complete yet, but there are also other problems that do not require anyone to even flag up for example dragging a bunch of 3 star mobs into a group farming mobs already getting them killed so they can loot materials/expel them from the zone.
Another problem is where you can just walk up to the groups healers unflagged and gank the healers (causing corruption on 1 person) then having the whole group die while the corrupted guys friends loot without being flagged, you cannot fight back against that and that is not fair pvp. The only way I see this being fixed is if they cannot flag in the field but must flag at a location away from a POI.
Some people like PirateSoftware and maybe you ? do not come from the same mmo background as us, i'm thinking eve online. Did you ever played Archeage ?
I think it's hard to explain why i don't like T&L to some one who doesn't have the experience of the goods pvp mmo. And personaly i like small scale pvp and 1v1 1vx.
The big zergs are good once or twice a month and that's it in my opinion.
And no a alliance of 1200 people facing guildes and alliances 10 time smallers is not good for me in any way. I like the calm guilds with not to many people and the alliances based on ingame "friendship" reather than let's just join the big one so we can play the game.
Maybe it won't change and they will find the balance i would be more than happy i don't need faction just balance.
And i want also to be able to pvp without turning into a criminal and without having to engage in battles involving hundreds of people.
So maybe a solution could be : in some interesting spots where you can find rare ressources or loot good ressources on bosses like dungeons. pvp should be anable for everyone.