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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Feedback on Fishing. Real life methods and their potential gameplay implication.
Lash
Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Translating real life fishing methods into an in game profession. In real life, fishing actually has a perfect progression curve that could be emulated in game. This post is to outline a potential progression path and to just give some general feedback on what I would like to see for a fishing profession. This is not a commentary on the method needed to reel in a fish already on the line but more so the method to get a fish on a line. After all, fish are usually not difficult to reel in until you get to ocean sized fish.
Rod/bait type and their influence on a unique gameplay layer
There are 3 basic types of fishing people employ in real life.
Bobber Fishing, Bottom Fishing, Reel Fishing. There are more complex methods but I will be focusing on these 3 for this post.
Bobber Fishing
This is usually the beginner method of fishing. If you are handing a rod to a kid for the first time this is what you would give them. It is simple and easy to understand. Cast line and wait for the bobber to sink then pull.
This is probably the best method to start with in game for a novice level fisher. Have players cast out a line and wait. When the bobber sinks they pull the line. Without timing you miss and have a chance to lose your bait. This method usually catches smaller fish that are prone to eat things that just fall into the water instead of fish that eat other fish. Time to catch a fish is relatively fast due to the abundance of smaller fish. (30s-3m)
Bottom Fishing
Bottom Fishing is your bread and butter set it and forget it method. In real life you will usually cast out one of your rods with a bottom fishing setup and just let it sit until you see activity on your rod. People often do this while doing Reel or Bobber fishing. One method is to use Bobber fishing to catch a bait fish, put it on your bottom fishing line to catch a larger fish.
In game Bottom fishing is your perfect place to make a time based (AFK) fishing method. Have players that progressed fishing far enough create a rod they can cast then set in place. Then let them do other activities while the rod does it work, Such as reel or bobber fishing or even just farming mobs near it. This is a longer time frame method in real life and it should be in game as well due to the nature of not needing an active gameplay layer. (5m-25m). Once you detect activity on your rod you need to interact with it within a time limit or you will lose the fish, modified by rod and bait quality and an RNG application. In real life a fish could stay on the line for a good while if you are lucky. This method is good for catching things like Catfish in real life that lurk on the bottoms of rivers or ponds.
Reel Fishing
Reel fishing in real life is the most nuanced type of basic fishing. It takes the most practice and knowledge of where a fish likes to swim. Lure types only catch certain types of fish, those certain types of fish will generally hang out in specific environments like near a fallen tree. You can go with small jig lures to catch the type of fish you would generally catch with bobber fishing. Or you can go with spinning or spoon lures to catch fish that typically eat other fast moving fish. This method of fishing is the most active because you will be casting out your line and reeling it back in constantly. It can also feel the most demoralizing for that reason because activity does not translate to more fish in reality. It does however usually result in larger fish.
As a more advanced method in real life this should be one of the more advanced fishing methods in game before you get to ocean fishing. Where the time, place, lure, and casting location matter more than other methods. Increasing the variability of actually catching a fish with failure to catch being more common than other methods but with a higher reward as a result. (30s-6m) The most dedicated fishing players will be more likely to want to interact with a more active gameplay layer while still being able to fall back on the other 2 methods if they are not feeling so inclined. The gameplay should involve aiming for a spot to cast to, Reeling in the line + rod movements based on lure type. The amount of gameplay interaction after a fish hits is up to the devs.
Conclusion
With these 3 fishing methods you get a logical progression path for your in game fishing along with a variable gameplay layer based on that progression. You can have bait, hook sizes, lure types, line strength, Casting distances, and Fish hotspot detection as potential upgrades. Time, Place, and Method all matter in fishing depending on what type you are trying to catch.
Personal Preference Commentary
Personally, I prefer fishing closer to real life fishing, not a method to meticulously catch a fish every 20 seconds like in some games. With fishing less is more, Randomness is a factor, failure is expected. The value of a fish is based on the effort needed to acquire it. If you add in an afk method that does not take proper investments all you are doing is creating a fishing system that places the value at a minimum for everyone. It discourages proper time to value propositions for your fishing. My argument against taking potentially 5 minutes being too long is that 5 minutes means a fish you catch is 5x more valuable to the market than one that took 1 minute, and even more valuable still if it requires active effort and game knowledge on the player’s part. I prefer 1 fish being valuable over needing 20 fish for 1 in-game food item or something along those lines due to inflation of fish/minute.
Side commentary. Something like a crab pot or nets for ocean fishing that requires you to go back many hours later without a time sensitive trigger might be fun as another AFK method of fishing.
Rod/bait type and their influence on a unique gameplay layer
There are 3 basic types of fishing people employ in real life.
Bobber Fishing, Bottom Fishing, Reel Fishing. There are more complex methods but I will be focusing on these 3 for this post.
Bobber Fishing
This is usually the beginner method of fishing. If you are handing a rod to a kid for the first time this is what you would give them. It is simple and easy to understand. Cast line and wait for the bobber to sink then pull.
This is probably the best method to start with in game for a novice level fisher. Have players cast out a line and wait. When the bobber sinks they pull the line. Without timing you miss and have a chance to lose your bait. This method usually catches smaller fish that are prone to eat things that just fall into the water instead of fish that eat other fish. Time to catch a fish is relatively fast due to the abundance of smaller fish. (30s-3m)
Bottom Fishing
Bottom Fishing is your bread and butter set it and forget it method. In real life you will usually cast out one of your rods with a bottom fishing setup and just let it sit until you see activity on your rod. People often do this while doing Reel or Bobber fishing. One method is to use Bobber fishing to catch a bait fish, put it on your bottom fishing line to catch a larger fish.
In game Bottom fishing is your perfect place to make a time based (AFK) fishing method. Have players that progressed fishing far enough create a rod they can cast then set in place. Then let them do other activities while the rod does it work, Such as reel or bobber fishing or even just farming mobs near it. This is a longer time frame method in real life and it should be in game as well due to the nature of not needing an active gameplay layer. (5m-25m). Once you detect activity on your rod you need to interact with it within a time limit or you will lose the fish, modified by rod and bait quality and an RNG application. In real life a fish could stay on the line for a good while if you are lucky. This method is good for catching things like Catfish in real life that lurk on the bottoms of rivers or ponds.
Reel Fishing
Reel fishing in real life is the most nuanced type of basic fishing. It takes the most practice and knowledge of where a fish likes to swim. Lure types only catch certain types of fish, those certain types of fish will generally hang out in specific environments like near a fallen tree. You can go with small jig lures to catch the type of fish you would generally catch with bobber fishing. Or you can go with spinning or spoon lures to catch fish that typically eat other fast moving fish. This method of fishing is the most active because you will be casting out your line and reeling it back in constantly. It can also feel the most demoralizing for that reason because activity does not translate to more fish in reality. It does however usually result in larger fish.
As a more advanced method in real life this should be one of the more advanced fishing methods in game before you get to ocean fishing. Where the time, place, lure, and casting location matter more than other methods. Increasing the variability of actually catching a fish with failure to catch being more common than other methods but with a higher reward as a result. (30s-6m) The most dedicated fishing players will be more likely to want to interact with a more active gameplay layer while still being able to fall back on the other 2 methods if they are not feeling so inclined. The gameplay should involve aiming for a spot to cast to, Reeling in the line + rod movements based on lure type. The amount of gameplay interaction after a fish hits is up to the devs.
Conclusion
With these 3 fishing methods you get a logical progression path for your in game fishing along with a variable gameplay layer based on that progression. You can have bait, hook sizes, lure types, line strength, Casting distances, and Fish hotspot detection as potential upgrades. Time, Place, and Method all matter in fishing depending on what type you are trying to catch.
Personal Preference Commentary
Personally, I prefer fishing closer to real life fishing, not a method to meticulously catch a fish every 20 seconds like in some games. With fishing less is more, Randomness is a factor, failure is expected. The value of a fish is based on the effort needed to acquire it. If you add in an afk method that does not take proper investments all you are doing is creating a fishing system that places the value at a minimum for everyone. It discourages proper time to value propositions for your fishing. My argument against taking potentially 5 minutes being too long is that 5 minutes means a fish you catch is 5x more valuable to the market than one that took 1 minute, and even more valuable still if it requires active effort and game knowledge on the player’s part. I prefer 1 fish being valuable over needing 20 fish for 1 in-game food item or something along those lines due to inflation of fish/minute.
Side commentary. Something like a crab pot or nets for ocean fishing that requires you to go back many hours later without a time sensitive trigger might be fun as another AFK method of fishing.
2
Comments
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/63512/fishing-minigame-take-from-what-has-already-worked#latest
Even if they don't use my idea of referencing old SNES games for a mini game in ashes I would like to see something more in depth but it seems like Steve wants to create a system based on his own nostalgia rather than innovate.
In a recent interview he talked about copying what archeage did and it's a system I don't really care for, it's the simple go to the water with a bamboo rod and worms and start catching fish, sports fishing is the same thing just with added chum to it. Not any depth to it you'll basically go up in tiers of rods and bait till you hit an eventual cap and most of the systems will be there to herd everyone into PvP areas (the ocean)
If not for the boat physics in Archeage it was just be another boring fishing game with no depth to it, it's literally just go out on your boat, find seagulls, chum water, start catching fish.
I wish at least we could customize a rod based on rod strength for different situations (like you're not gonna feel any bass or bluegill on a 130~200 pound rod meant for ocean fishing) there's also depths to worry about in RL, that's why you have weights for your rod you want to target certain depths like trout can range anywhere from 35 feet up to 200 feet down depending on the weather/temp/location
Another ideal setup for me would having a UI that would allow you to set up your rod so you pick the depth and line/rod strength because that's what most fishing boils down too and location, you can't just willy-nilly start bank fishing and pull in fish. if you add in small boats then why not create areas that attract different fish in the same body of water (like rocky/cattails/lilly pads/etc.)