Artisan system feedback, the pacing

eikkuu

In general I love the system and the depth that it has and that there is no randomness. It is grindy in nature, especially the crafting part but I like that. It feels rewarding once you have put the effort.

BUT the pacing feels off currently, yeah and I know that we are missing a lot of things which make this better, but in the current iteration leveling the gathering is fast and even if player leveling feels grindy its much faster than leveling crafting. And on top of this the node progression is gatekeeping the progression. First you need upgraded workbench to make better tools that gatherers can actually gather tier 2 resources and then you need upgraded processing and crafting workbenches to craft the materials and because of the interlinkage between different artisan skills, you need to have almost everything build before you can craft level 10+ items. Once you actually get there players are already lvl 20+ and you are again behind and probably once you get lvl20 there players are already max level. Crafting then becomes relevant at the current end game.

Also related to node progression. In beginning there is a lot mayors who dont know what they are doing, which might further slowdown the artisan skill progression.

Also in the current iteration while crafters can craft best gear in the game, some mobs are dropping a lot of gear. There is also crafting components and recipes but amount of good quality gear is dropped there's less need for crafted gear. And I dont say that there shouldnt be gear drops but it just need to be balanced against crafted gear.

Couple things came to my mind which could help early crafting:

Make sub tiers for crafted gear. Example You have Tier 2.1 which requires maybe only metal working, its better than tier 1 but not as good as Tier 2.2 which would require metal working + tailoring, and then there could metal working + tailoring + leatherworking etc. This way when the node levels you can already craft next Tier of items even though you cannot make "best of that tier" because you are missing those interlinkages between other artisan skills

Level up crafting recipes (I know that they have talked about this) that they can become next tier. So not only by adding the quality but once you are lets say Apprentice level weaponsmith and you have crafted a lot of swords you can make Tier 2 version of the Tier 1 weapon.

I dont have any one silver bullet to fix this pacing issue but I would like to get it balanced somehow which would make crafters already more relevant early that those who are investing into it, feels rewarded.

tldr: pacing feels off related to player levels and node progression and I would like to see that improved somehow

RedLeader1

The pacing is fine. What is wrong is the way all the professions are intertwined, meaning you cant focus on just one or two.

Gatherers need to be paid in processed goods directly when they drop off raw material. The processor then gets paid in process goods, when they fuel the processing, less that paid to the gatherer. The crafter then crafts the end product and is sells excess to the vendor that supplies all the NPC vendors. If no one crafts gear, there is no vendor gear at the nodes. The buy/sell prices at the vendor, reflect how much gear is there.

So if I make a riding bear, it costs me 75s. If there are no riding bears at the riding vendor, I can sell it to the vendor for 75s and make my processing fee back (not the fuel). That NPC sells it for 100s. The next riding bear I make, still costs me 75s to produce, but I can sell it to the vendor for only 70s, and the price the vendor sells it at drops to 95s. The vendor will only buy riding bears until the price drops to 80s. At that point you either have to stop making bears, just destroy them, or take them to a vendor at a different node. If I have a lot of them, I will need a caravan.

I also think that hunters should just be able to drop off untrained bears at the animal husbandry trainer (if it isn't overstocked) and get paid a % of the mount price. Any trainer can then buy that untrained bear at a % of the mount price. That will be useful for rarer mounts, that require higher training skills.

If they want a working economy they have to implement it that way. They cant "magic" it into existence, it needs to work from the ground up. I think (hope) this is what Intrepid intend to do. I am not a genius and it occurred to me that this is the only "right" way to implement an economy, so I'm sure they will arrive there pretty quickly.

eikkuu

No I didnt mean that. I like the interconnectivity between professions. Thats great. But the thing I dont like is that crafting professions are currently playing from behind compared to player levels. Either node progression need to sped up or player levels slowdown. But this is of course only true if the intent is to have early / mid game crafting. If the intent is that crafting is only relevant end game, then there is no issue with the design.

Ghostgg

I almost think they should just make it so novice is available in the lionhold areas and apprentice is the default at a node considering you have to be level 10 to use it anyway. So you don't need the node buildings until you go for journeyman.

RocketFarmer

My thoughts on pacing is that right now lumber jacking greatly outpaces the other gathering skills in terms of time investment and return on investment. Is the experience return for each tree too high given the availability of trees you can harvest? Perhaps we only need 20-25% of the trees harvestable.

For mining the limiting factor is the quantity of tier 2 nodes over tier 1, or perhaps they are tier 2 and tier 3. Not sure if tier 1 nodes were replaced with tier 2 nodes. And of course for metalworkers the lack of metal nodes in comparison to stone. I am sure the dwarves and Tulnar are hoarding the metals.

Scarcity driven by node building perhaps exacerbates things. And no markets hurts the artisans a lot, with the current work around being player to player trades.

I feel bad for the Animal Husbandry folks given the expense to advance the process. Perhaps we can start with training pets before jumping into mounts. Or take out what is essentially a free mount quest so that there is more demand for their services.

ShivaFang

RedLeader1 wrote: »

So if I make a riding bear, it costs me 75s. If there are no riding bears at the riding vendor, I can sell it to the vendor for 75s and make my processing fee back (not the fuel). That NPC sells it for 100s.

If NPCs are doing it then it's not a player driven economy. This is hells to the no.
Player market stalls are going in Phase 2, players can set it up if they want to buy and sell things like that.

eikkuu

I guess they listened. Latest patch sped up the node progression a lot when buy orders were made a lot easier