Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Consolidated Feedback Thus far: (250+ hours)
lancehavenbay
Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I've put a significant amount of effort into organizing and summarizing this information, given its extensive nature. However, I strongly recommend reading the full text at the bottom, as it contains additional details not included in this summary. I've also attached pertinent screenshots and examples for reference.
So far, I've dedicated over 250 hours (though I stopped meticulously logging hours after 200) to fine-tuning and tracking aspects of combat, social interactions, and crafting up to level 10. I firmly believe that a strong first impression is crucial for laying the foundation to engage and inspire new players in the world of Ashes.
Therefore, this feedback primarily focuses on experiences up to around level 10. While I've reached as high as level 13, 250 hours is a substantial amount of time for me without pushing further. This equates to more than 6 hours a day, in many cases. I deliberately concentrated on the beginning of the game, as level 10 marks a soft cap and represents the transition to the larger game experience.
1. Crafting System
Current Concerns
Low-Level Crafting Disadvantages: At low levels, crafting offers virtually no benefit. Compounding this issue, upon reaching level 10, all crafted or dropped gear becomes immediately obsolete due to vastly superior items available from vendors. You would be level 10 long before you were in a position to craft halfway decent pre-10 gear.
Lack of Incentive: There's no motivation to invest in crafting early on when grinding for experience and vendor purchases yields vastly better rewards at a more than 62% faster rate. (I’ve achieved level 9 in as little as 3 hours, and full gear from drops as early as level 5 in under 30 minutes. Conversely, crafting the same equipment with less than a level 5 would take upwards of 8 hours, and crafted gear would be nearly obsolete by the time you made it.)
Proposed Improvements
Inverse Crafting Curve: Implement an inverse curve, making initial crafting substantially more rewarding. Introduce crafting bonuses such as unique stats or stronger base attributes for early levels to make crafting worthwhile.
Fostering Early Crafting Engagement: Incentivize players to explore crafting by making early crafting items better than typical mob drops, promoting social interactions and competition over resources.
Long-Term Crafting Development: As players level up and venture beyond starting zones, crafting should gradually require more investment but still offer strategic edge advantages. Essentially meaning it would still be beneficial to have crafted/enchanted gear, but the impact wouldn’t be quite as substantial as pre-10 crafted items.
Anticipated Outcomes
-Increased player involvement in crafting.
-Stronger social connections through resource gathering and collaboration.
-More dynamic group and guild formations driven by resource needs.
-Encouragement for community building and trading through crafted items.
-Established new players carrying their foundations into new nodes
2. Leveling and Class Balance
Current Challenges
Level Discrepancy Impact: Being even slightly higher in level results in a significant advantage in battles due to combat performance scaling almost exclusively with level and proper gear having minimal impact.
Class Viability at Early Levels: Some classes, most notably Archer and Tank, do not feel viable or competitive until much higher levels, which creates a disconnect for solo, duo, or small group play below level 10. (Especially in PvP)
Suggested Solutions
Class Balance from Level 1: Ensure all archetypes are usable and competitive from the very beginning. Adjustments should balance classes to be effective in various group compositions, even at low levels. There’s no reason why any class should be an outright win against a higher skilled/geared player at equal level.
Gameplay Mechanics for New Players: Develop mechanics to support and guide new players in the early stages, minimizing downtime and enhancing the initial experience.
3. Community Interaction and Communication
Potential Enhancements
LFG (Looking for Group) System: Introduce a dedicated LFG tool to streamline group formation and reduce global chat spam. This could be a local tab-window per zone, as well as LFG specific chat that a player can customize in their interface menu.
Trade-Specific Chat Channel: Implement customizable, dedicated channels for trade-related chat (WTB, WTS, WTT), helping players efficiently locate and negotiate in-game transactions. I know a market is in the works, but even having a chat function to show/hide trade specific calls would be tremendous.
Additional Feedback:
Concussion Feedback: 25% slowdown of skills feels trivial. +50% to skill active time, and/or double casting time on spells would feel a lot more substantial and is often what is done in other games to put pressure onto casters. This would allow classes like Archer or melee with a mace/scepter to lock down/soften a target for a coordinated strike. This would promote more coordination in pvp and higher class/build variation when dealing with specific enemy types. It would also allow teammates a chance to dodge skills easier/better telegraphs.
Archer: The Archer class feels like it lacks a clear role or standout abilities. Its damage, crowd control, and mobility are average, and its mobility options seem more like gimmicks than useful features. Although it has a skill that provides a minor escape option, the Archer lacks any self-preservation abilities, unlike other classes that have means of healing or shielding themselves.
It's unclear where the Archer is intended to fit in, as other classes seem to perform better in healing, damage output, crowd control, and mobility. Especially when equipped with a longbow, Archers struggle with limited mobility due to a movement debuff, which can only be overcome by an awkward backward jump.
For the Archer to excel in locking down single targets, it needs stronger control abilities or ways to interrupt enemies.
Enemy skills/dodge: The current mechanics involving enemies and the dodge feature seems very underdeveloped. Few enemies possess unique skills, and the dodge mechanic appears to be ineffective, especially against ranged attacks from NPCs. It lacks the precision and timing typically associated with skilled gameplay. Moreover, there are limited occasions where dodging is beneficial.
To enhance the game's dynamics, it would be beneficial to introduce more enemies equipped with distinct, skill-based attacks. They don’t all have to be signaled through visual indicators like the "bar.” I personally love the Goblin Flayer laugh before the spin. Introducing a wider variety of enemy skills would add depth. For instance, a Goblin Digger should have unique abilities compared to a standard goblin. Furthermore, incorporating diverse skill sets within the same enemy type could add an element of surprise and keep players engaged. Especially when presenting the game to a new player who is learning what to look out for and when to dodge.
Character Level Progression/Quests: Currently, the quickest path to success in the game is by disengaging from its core mechanics and mindlessly grinding mobs, often in groups, which can be repetitive and dull. I'd prefer a shift in focus, encouraging players to collaborate more for commissions, quests, and events. This approach would make player interactions within the game world the primary source of XP, while loot and gear would result from the volume of mob kills and crafting. The introduction of new world events is a great step forward, and I'm hopeful that these will encourage more players to explore and engage with the game world, rather than just grinding mobs for extended periods.
Weapon Swap Sets: Allow us to choose any weapons to be in our weapon slots, not just Ranged and Melee. I'd like to have the ability to give up ranged attacks in exchange for the ability to have off-hand sword and board.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Long form with more context:
After reaching level 10 in the game, the pace feels like it slows down, which is a welcome change. This shift happens because crafting becomes more beneficial and significant. Right now, there is essentially zero benefit to investing into crafting at low levels, because the moment you get to 10 all of your gear is merchant food. There's nothing you can make at low levels efficiently and with stats worth the effort. And even if you do dedicate yourself to making the gear, the regular vendor will sell you items with vastly superior stats.
I grew up playing Guild Wars 1, and I know every game is different, and I know Ashes isn't Guild Wars 1. But hear me out. While I see the importance of leveling, I have some concerns about its impact in Ashes. As expected, leveling increases health, mana, and skill effects, but the gap in power between players even just 1-3 levels apart can be very significant. This discrepancy means that higher-leveled players have a substantial advantage, making the game feel unbalanced at times. A group of level 6 players struggling against a single level 10 player is a prime example. This disparity becomes more pronounced at higher levels. On one side it is a reward for grinding levels, on the other side it can make the game extremely unbalanced. The largest issue with that though, is that if one can just grind levels and acquire drops, what is the incentive for crafting?
My particular concern is how this affects crafting. If players can simply grind levels and acquire drops, crafting loses its appeal as a way to become stronger. While games like Black Desert Online have unlimited leveling systems, Ashes doesn't suffer from such an extreme imbalance. However, crafting currently seems severely without value, especially leading up to level 10. Right now crafting feels gimmicky. There's no substantial boon to incentivize a player to craft when they can simply grind and get 3x more gear and levels in less than 1/4 of the time. There needs to be a selling point to encourage people to get into crafting.
To fix this, I propose making early crafting more rewarding. Crafting should yield greater benefits at the start, encouraging players to engage with it. This would give players a reason to learn trades, craft for each other, and build a market early on. It could lead to interesting dynamics like competing for resources and exploring different areas. When players then eventually move into their respective nodes, they will have an established network and acquaintances they met along the way.
Crafting stats should provide a noticeable advantage over early-level mob drops, whether through better base stats or additional attributes like penetration or intelligence. As players progress beyond the starter zone, crafting/enchanting should then become more time-intensive. It would still offer benefits at higher levels, but more of a slight edge vs a straightforward upgrade when compared to early levels. This would help to smooth out level/gearing discrepancies but also promote organized guilds/nodes to gear up especially vs equally leveled competitors. This would also result in higher tier play being decided from skill not just gear. There's no good mechanic in place to help budding players get on their feet. I think fixing the crafting system will be a huge first step in the right direction, especially if you front-load the stat/gear increases from crafting early on.
This would accomplish many things:
-Players would be more willing to get involved in crafting.
-Players would begin to make far more social connections while harvesting.
-Players would fight over resources, and thus establish groups, guild and alliances specific to protecting resources even early on.
-Players would have a specific goals to work towards for their specific playstyle early on instead of just praying to the RNG gods and facerolling mobs for hours on end, eventually burning themselves out.
-Players would be encouraged to work together to go out into the wilderness and explore, work together and create communities.
-Players would then carry these early connections into future developed nodes.
-This would also spur the need for caravans to deliver these early commodities, as many players would start to establish themselves and their trades into future nodes when leaving Lionhold.
-There would be a residual impact on starting locations which will keep trade/commerce fresh and alive even as the game ages.
In short, crafting needs a clear incentive to make it worth the investment and to balance the appeal of grinding levels.
Another recurring topic I keep encountering is the notion that "your class will get better at higher levels." Many MMOs and RPGs have a rich history of making all classes potentially viable against each other, provided players are skilled with their abilities, armor, positioning, and more. While one class may excel against another, a less skilled player shouldn't have an extreme advantage over another class if the other player is competent.
I've often heard arguments like "wait until level 12" or "wait until level 20," suggesting that classes will truly excel later. My question is, why not make them viable from the start? Archetypes should feel viable from level 1. The argument that "this is a party-based system" is only partially convincing. Not everyone plays during peak hours, and in many games, there's a clear incentive to balance parties with diverse compositions, like having more mages, archers, or healers, depending on the situation.
While classes begin to complement each other above level 10, there is a significant disconnect in viability for solo, duo, or small group play before reaching that point. Some classes, such as bard or cleric, can easily manage by auto-attacking enemies to death with simple heals, whereas classes like Archer have to constantly move and can only take down enemies slowly, one at a time. For example, by level 3, I can handle more than five goblins with just a greatsword as a bard or cleric. An Archer would struggle with 1 and need to sit down after being hit a few times.
When you factor in the time lost needing to rest and heal or searching for a group healer, you spend more than half of your time waiting or resting. There aren't sufficient mechanics in place to help novice players become self-sufficient, or to balance potential pvp encounters at these vital early levels where people are getting their first impression of the game. It's one thing if someone had vastly better gear, but another if they simple are a different class.
Other than that,
As an aside, the team has done a wonderful job with ashes. While the game is obviously still very early on in development, it holds so much potential. I see that every day with the ever-expanding structures, enemy density, crafting and mount systems. The team is doing amazing things and I tip my hat to you all. I genuinely appreciate that the desire is to make the best mmorpg of all time, and for the first time in a very, very long time, I trust a team to accomplish that without a doubt in my mind. I'm just here to give feedback and hopefully help give insight based on my own experiences. Thanks again for all you do.
So far, I've dedicated over 250 hours (though I stopped meticulously logging hours after 200) to fine-tuning and tracking aspects of combat, social interactions, and crafting up to level 10. I firmly believe that a strong first impression is crucial for laying the foundation to engage and inspire new players in the world of Ashes.
Therefore, this feedback primarily focuses on experiences up to around level 10. While I've reached as high as level 13, 250 hours is a substantial amount of time for me without pushing further. This equates to more than 6 hours a day, in many cases. I deliberately concentrated on the beginning of the game, as level 10 marks a soft cap and represents the transition to the larger game experience.
1. Crafting System
Current Concerns
Low-Level Crafting Disadvantages: At low levels, crafting offers virtually no benefit. Compounding this issue, upon reaching level 10, all crafted or dropped gear becomes immediately obsolete due to vastly superior items available from vendors. You would be level 10 long before you were in a position to craft halfway decent pre-10 gear.
Lack of Incentive: There's no motivation to invest in crafting early on when grinding for experience and vendor purchases yields vastly better rewards at a more than 62% faster rate. (I’ve achieved level 9 in as little as 3 hours, and full gear from drops as early as level 5 in under 30 minutes. Conversely, crafting the same equipment with less than a level 5 would take upwards of 8 hours, and crafted gear would be nearly obsolete by the time you made it.)
Proposed Improvements
Inverse Crafting Curve: Implement an inverse curve, making initial crafting substantially more rewarding. Introduce crafting bonuses such as unique stats or stronger base attributes for early levels to make crafting worthwhile.
Fostering Early Crafting Engagement: Incentivize players to explore crafting by making early crafting items better than typical mob drops, promoting social interactions and competition over resources.
Long-Term Crafting Development: As players level up and venture beyond starting zones, crafting should gradually require more investment but still offer strategic edge advantages. Essentially meaning it would still be beneficial to have crafted/enchanted gear, but the impact wouldn’t be quite as substantial as pre-10 crafted items.
Anticipated Outcomes
-Increased player involvement in crafting.
-Stronger social connections through resource gathering and collaboration.
-More dynamic group and guild formations driven by resource needs.
-Encouragement for community building and trading through crafted items.
-Established new players carrying their foundations into new nodes
2. Leveling and Class Balance
Current Challenges
Level Discrepancy Impact: Being even slightly higher in level results in a significant advantage in battles due to combat performance scaling almost exclusively with level and proper gear having minimal impact.
Class Viability at Early Levels: Some classes, most notably Archer and Tank, do not feel viable or competitive until much higher levels, which creates a disconnect for solo, duo, or small group play below level 10. (Especially in PvP)
Suggested Solutions
Class Balance from Level 1: Ensure all archetypes are usable and competitive from the very beginning. Adjustments should balance classes to be effective in various group compositions, even at low levels. There’s no reason why any class should be an outright win against a higher skilled/geared player at equal level.
Gameplay Mechanics for New Players: Develop mechanics to support and guide new players in the early stages, minimizing downtime and enhancing the initial experience.
3. Community Interaction and Communication
Potential Enhancements
LFG (Looking for Group) System: Introduce a dedicated LFG tool to streamline group formation and reduce global chat spam. This could be a local tab-window per zone, as well as LFG specific chat that a player can customize in their interface menu.
Trade-Specific Chat Channel: Implement customizable, dedicated channels for trade-related chat (WTB, WTS, WTT), helping players efficiently locate and negotiate in-game transactions. I know a market is in the works, but even having a chat function to show/hide trade specific calls would be tremendous.
Additional Feedback:
Concussion Feedback: 25% slowdown of skills feels trivial. +50% to skill active time, and/or double casting time on spells would feel a lot more substantial and is often what is done in other games to put pressure onto casters. This would allow classes like Archer or melee with a mace/scepter to lock down/soften a target for a coordinated strike. This would promote more coordination in pvp and higher class/build variation when dealing with specific enemy types. It would also allow teammates a chance to dodge skills easier/better telegraphs.
Archer: The Archer class feels like it lacks a clear role or standout abilities. Its damage, crowd control, and mobility are average, and its mobility options seem more like gimmicks than useful features. Although it has a skill that provides a minor escape option, the Archer lacks any self-preservation abilities, unlike other classes that have means of healing or shielding themselves.
It's unclear where the Archer is intended to fit in, as other classes seem to perform better in healing, damage output, crowd control, and mobility. Especially when equipped with a longbow, Archers struggle with limited mobility due to a movement debuff, which can only be overcome by an awkward backward jump.
For the Archer to excel in locking down single targets, it needs stronger control abilities or ways to interrupt enemies.
Enemy skills/dodge: The current mechanics involving enemies and the dodge feature seems very underdeveloped. Few enemies possess unique skills, and the dodge mechanic appears to be ineffective, especially against ranged attacks from NPCs. It lacks the precision and timing typically associated with skilled gameplay. Moreover, there are limited occasions where dodging is beneficial.
To enhance the game's dynamics, it would be beneficial to introduce more enemies equipped with distinct, skill-based attacks. They don’t all have to be signaled through visual indicators like the "bar.” I personally love the Goblin Flayer laugh before the spin. Introducing a wider variety of enemy skills would add depth. For instance, a Goblin Digger should have unique abilities compared to a standard goblin. Furthermore, incorporating diverse skill sets within the same enemy type could add an element of surprise and keep players engaged. Especially when presenting the game to a new player who is learning what to look out for and when to dodge.
Character Level Progression/Quests: Currently, the quickest path to success in the game is by disengaging from its core mechanics and mindlessly grinding mobs, often in groups, which can be repetitive and dull. I'd prefer a shift in focus, encouraging players to collaborate more for commissions, quests, and events. This approach would make player interactions within the game world the primary source of XP, while loot and gear would result from the volume of mob kills and crafting. The introduction of new world events is a great step forward, and I'm hopeful that these will encourage more players to explore and engage with the game world, rather than just grinding mobs for extended periods.
Weapon Swap Sets: Allow us to choose any weapons to be in our weapon slots, not just Ranged and Melee. I'd like to have the ability to give up ranged attacks in exchange for the ability to have off-hand sword and board.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Long form with more context:
After reaching level 10 in the game, the pace feels like it slows down, which is a welcome change. This shift happens because crafting becomes more beneficial and significant. Right now, there is essentially zero benefit to investing into crafting at low levels, because the moment you get to 10 all of your gear is merchant food. There's nothing you can make at low levels efficiently and with stats worth the effort. And even if you do dedicate yourself to making the gear, the regular vendor will sell you items with vastly superior stats.
I grew up playing Guild Wars 1, and I know every game is different, and I know Ashes isn't Guild Wars 1. But hear me out. While I see the importance of leveling, I have some concerns about its impact in Ashes. As expected, leveling increases health, mana, and skill effects, but the gap in power between players even just 1-3 levels apart can be very significant. This discrepancy means that higher-leveled players have a substantial advantage, making the game feel unbalanced at times. A group of level 6 players struggling against a single level 10 player is a prime example. This disparity becomes more pronounced at higher levels. On one side it is a reward for grinding levels, on the other side it can make the game extremely unbalanced. The largest issue with that though, is that if one can just grind levels and acquire drops, what is the incentive for crafting?
My particular concern is how this affects crafting. If players can simply grind levels and acquire drops, crafting loses its appeal as a way to become stronger. While games like Black Desert Online have unlimited leveling systems, Ashes doesn't suffer from such an extreme imbalance. However, crafting currently seems severely without value, especially leading up to level 10. Right now crafting feels gimmicky. There's no substantial boon to incentivize a player to craft when they can simply grind and get 3x more gear and levels in less than 1/4 of the time. There needs to be a selling point to encourage people to get into crafting.
To fix this, I propose making early crafting more rewarding. Crafting should yield greater benefits at the start, encouraging players to engage with it. This would give players a reason to learn trades, craft for each other, and build a market early on. It could lead to interesting dynamics like competing for resources and exploring different areas. When players then eventually move into their respective nodes, they will have an established network and acquaintances they met along the way.
Crafting stats should provide a noticeable advantage over early-level mob drops, whether through better base stats or additional attributes like penetration or intelligence. As players progress beyond the starter zone, crafting/enchanting should then become more time-intensive. It would still offer benefits at higher levels, but more of a slight edge vs a straightforward upgrade when compared to early levels. This would help to smooth out level/gearing discrepancies but also promote organized guilds/nodes to gear up especially vs equally leveled competitors. This would also result in higher tier play being decided from skill not just gear. There's no good mechanic in place to help budding players get on their feet. I think fixing the crafting system will be a huge first step in the right direction, especially if you front-load the stat/gear increases from crafting early on.
This would accomplish many things:
-Players would be more willing to get involved in crafting.
-Players would begin to make far more social connections while harvesting.
-Players would fight over resources, and thus establish groups, guild and alliances specific to protecting resources even early on.
-Players would have a specific goals to work towards for their specific playstyle early on instead of just praying to the RNG gods and facerolling mobs for hours on end, eventually burning themselves out.
-Players would be encouraged to work together to go out into the wilderness and explore, work together and create communities.
-Players would then carry these early connections into future developed nodes.
-This would also spur the need for caravans to deliver these early commodities, as many players would start to establish themselves and their trades into future nodes when leaving Lionhold.
-There would be a residual impact on starting locations which will keep trade/commerce fresh and alive even as the game ages.
In short, crafting needs a clear incentive to make it worth the investment and to balance the appeal of grinding levels.
Another recurring topic I keep encountering is the notion that "your class will get better at higher levels." Many MMOs and RPGs have a rich history of making all classes potentially viable against each other, provided players are skilled with their abilities, armor, positioning, and more. While one class may excel against another, a less skilled player shouldn't have an extreme advantage over another class if the other player is competent.
I've often heard arguments like "wait until level 12" or "wait until level 20," suggesting that classes will truly excel later. My question is, why not make them viable from the start? Archetypes should feel viable from level 1. The argument that "this is a party-based system" is only partially convincing. Not everyone plays during peak hours, and in many games, there's a clear incentive to balance parties with diverse compositions, like having more mages, archers, or healers, depending on the situation.
While classes begin to complement each other above level 10, there is a significant disconnect in viability for solo, duo, or small group play before reaching that point. Some classes, such as bard or cleric, can easily manage by auto-attacking enemies to death with simple heals, whereas classes like Archer have to constantly move and can only take down enemies slowly, one at a time. For example, by level 3, I can handle more than five goblins with just a greatsword as a bard or cleric. An Archer would struggle with 1 and need to sit down after being hit a few times.
When you factor in the time lost needing to rest and heal or searching for a group healer, you spend more than half of your time waiting or resting. There aren't sufficient mechanics in place to help novice players become self-sufficient, or to balance potential pvp encounters at these vital early levels where people are getting their first impression of the game. It's one thing if someone had vastly better gear, but another if they simple are a different class.
Other than that,
As an aside, the team has done a wonderful job with ashes. While the game is obviously still very early on in development, it holds so much potential. I see that every day with the ever-expanding structures, enemy density, crafting and mount systems. The team is doing amazing things and I tip my hat to you all. I genuinely appreciate that the desire is to make the best mmorpg of all time, and for the first time in a very, very long time, I trust a team to accomplish that without a doubt in my mind. I'm just here to give feedback and hopefully help give insight based on my own experiences. Thanks again for all you do.
5
Comments
I think they should add making a consumable as part of the "Sweat your Brow" Quest. Perhaps as "aid" for other areas. Teach you that everything is rough and people need help, and that it wouldn't hurt to know how to make some yourself as well.
Rations aside, it would nice to be have some alternatives. I'm even okay with drawbacks from too many inferior potions etc.
If daze interrupts, we do get an ability later up in the tree. I have not trained in that ability yet, so I cannot confirm it. I also do not know what the reuse timer is on it.
I will say it was kind of depressing to watch fighters slaughter 1 star targets that were 2 levels below them, knowing ti would take a lot of tricks for me to kill it and then have to regen after.
Archers in general are in a bad spot right now and are basically middle of the road or worse in pretty much everything. Concussions does not interrupt - the suggestion was for stronger effect so that is useful as finisher, and a mention of what Daze/Concussion does inn other games.