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ROGUE release

MorgalfMorgalf Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
I am sure this issue has been brought up before, but I want to make sure it has as much visibility as possible. The highly anticipated Rogue needs to be released WAY BEFORE a wipe. It gives everyone a chance to mess around with it and decide how they feel about it. Otherwise, if it is released with a wipe or a weekend before, half of the server population will be rolling rogue and this will DESTROY the game's class balance. I think the best time would be a few weeks or a month after the December 20th wipe, as long as we do not expect another wipe until Phase 3. Leveling is a long journey in Ashes, and if everyone rolls rogue on fresh servers, they will likely be unwilling to drop it due to time investment when they realize half of the server went rogue. Let people decide if they want to main it way before a fresh start, for the love of God. Then, only dedicated rogue players will level up all the way and main rogue, which will be fine! Class balance will be safe. We will be behind, but gear is BoE. Roll a ranger and give your dude the gear. No big deal.
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"The gods do not fear death. They greet death as an old friend. When your time comes to return to the ashes, move forward knowing death is merely one of many paths to a new adventure."

Comments

  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Don't know if you noticed - there is no class balance right now. They can bring the rogue at any point
  • alexpetr2023alexpetr2023 Member, Alpha Two
    I mean people will try the rogue for sure. I and many others will probably continue to play the archetype they want to main. I intend to try rogue initially when it releases but majority of my effort will go towards my fighter again
  • MorgalfMorgalf Member, Alpha Two
    Not that I need a trolls input but Garrtok learn to read and comprehend a post before making a ignorant comment. "Don't know if you noticed" but in my post I'm clearly not referring to the class power balance that you are. Its not about class power balance as in one is stronger than the other. I mean literal class balance of there are far more clerics than any other class at the moment. This will slowly change as people feel more comfortable and ready to try less easy-mode classes. Rogue will release and EVERYONE and their mother will give it a whirl. If we release it with a wipe, just like how clerics are, the majority will be playing rogue. Excessive clerics is probably the best care scenario, excessive rogue will be a nightmare for rouge mains. That would be annoying for us because the wannabe's are in there being bad and taking up raid spots. As usual, there should be a pretty big skill gap between good rogues and bad ones but it will take a while to figure that out. Thanks for the bump though
    c8ybb18afj2p.jpg
    "The gods do not fear death. They greet death as an old friend. When your time comes to return to the ashes, move forward knowing death is merely one of many paths to a new adventure."
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    Gets worse. Steven mentioned in one of the interviews that rogue likely won't be released until a few weeks into Phase 2. We are likely looking at rogue in January, a couple weeks after the wipe, which means there will be a glut of low level rogues when everyone else is probably in their 20s by then.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Morgalf wrote: »
    Not that I need a trolls input but Garrtok learn to read and comprehend a post before making a ignorant comment. "Don't know if you noticed" but in my post I'm clearly not referring to the class power balance that you are. Its not about class power balance as in one is stronger than the other. I mean literal class balance of there are far more clerics than any other class at the moment. This will slowly change as people feel more comfortable and ready to try less easy-mode classes. Rogue will release and EVERYONE and their mother will give it a whirl. If we release it with a wipe, just like how clerics are, the majority will be playing rogue. Excessive clerics is probably the best care scenario, excessive rogue will be a nightmare for rouge mains. That would be annoying for us because the wannabe's are in there being bad and taking up raid spots. As usual, there should be a pretty big skill gap between good rogues and bad ones but it will take a while to figure that out. Thanks for the bump though

    Like you already realized on your own, there is also no balance in which class people are playing. And if there is a new class, it's totally fine that "everyone" is testing the rouge, cause that's the point of an alpha. Besides thst iam pretty sure that there are enough people not interested in the rouge.
  • MahesMahes Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I do not think this will be a large problem for the rogue.

    I do think when they release the Summoner, they will have half the player base trying it. That is the class I am much looking forward too.
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 14
    Only question related to rogues is whether the number of rogues will outnumber the clerics and bards in those first few weeks. Trying to imagine an 8 man rogue party and what that might be like.
  • IustinusShivaIustinusShiva Member, Alpha Two
    RocketFarmer wrote: »
    Only question related to rogues is whether the number of rogues will outnumber the clerics and bards in those first few weeks. Trying to imagine an 8 man rogue party and what that might be like.

    I'm currently playing a bard while I wait for rogue, so that's already -1 bard +1 rogue on rogue entry day.
  • DarcsinsDarcsins Member, Alpha Two
    I honestly prefer they take their time and get the class right. So if that means a later release like Jan. 2025 or releasing both rouge and summoner at the same time so you don't have the rush of everyone going rouge vs splitting the community trying new classes. I do think you make some very valid points Moralf and understand your point of view.
  • RustedRiotRustedRiot Member, Alpha Two
    Yeah can't sympathize. If lots of people end up testing the rogue... That's a good thing. It's a new release it needs more testing. Besides, most people aren't going to keep the class anyways. Just pop in for a quick test after it releases.

    'wannabe's taking up raid slots?' get off your high horse. If you're so worried about the 'class balance'... why don't you join me in playing something other than rogue? Or wait... let me guess... you deserve to play the class you want, but everyone else should do what's best for party comp 😂
    And remember this is an alpha test not an actual game. More testing = better end result.
  • SlipreeSlipree Member, Alpha Two
    Morgalf wrote: »
    Not that I need a trolls input but Garrtok learn to read and comprehend a post before making a ignorant comment. "Don't know if you noticed" but in my post I'm clearly not referring to the class power balance that you are. Its not about class power balance as in one is stronger than the other. I mean literal class balance of there are far more clerics than any other class at the moment. This will slowly change as people feel more comfortable and ready to try less easy-mode classes. Rogue will release and EVERYONE and their mother will give it a whirl. If we release it with a wipe, just like how clerics are, the majority will be playing rogue. Excessive clerics is probably the best care scenario, excessive rogue will be a nightmare for rouge mains. That would be annoying for us because the wannabe's are in there being bad and taking up raid spots. As usual, there should be a pretty big skill gap between good rogues and bad ones but it will take a while to figure that out. Thanks for the bump though

    i agree with his take, not yours.
    A lot of classes are underrepresented already, and we are in ALPHA 2 ffs. They can, and SHOULD add rogue as soon as its ready. Some classes are only being picked because groups feel they need them for content, not because they actually DO need them for content. everything you typed was your personal opinion, and not fact at all. Responding how you did, invalidates anything you said afterwards, IMO.
  • WhiskyWhisky Member, Alpha Two
    Morgalf wrote: »
    Not that I need a trolls input but Garrtok learn to read and comprehend a post before making a ignorant comment. "Don't know if you noticed" but in my post I'm clearly not referring to the class power balance that you are. Its not about class power balance as in one is stronger than the other. I mean literal class balance of there are far more clerics than any other class at the moment. This will slowly change as people feel more comfortable and ready to try less easy-mode classes. Rogue will release and EVERYONE and their mother will give it a whirl. If we release it with a wipe, just like how clerics are, the majority will be playing rogue. Excessive clerics is probably the best care scenario, excessive rogue will be a nightmare for rouge mains. That would be annoying for us because the wannabe's are in there being bad and taking up raid spots. As usual, there should be a pretty big skill gap between good rogues and bad ones but it will take a while to figure that out. Thanks for the bump though

    I see way more Bards than Clerics. I mean a decent team has 1 Bard and 1 Cleric. An Awesome team has 2 Bards/1 Cleric. Anyway, the entire point of Alpha is testing and adding new systems/classes/features add the rogue whenever its ready. Worry about final balance in BETA. imo ofc.
  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    I understand the reasons to wait on the Rogue until after the character wipe.

    The Rogue is the PVP class and high DPS class.

    Intrepid needs to get a handle on the basics of PVP mechanics and balancing other classes before releasing the rogue.

    You could title, Alpha 2 Phase 2, "The Hour of the Rogue", because nearly everyone is going to roll a rogue. It is likely going to be a bit of a pvp mess for the first few weeks of Phase 2.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Not sure if you saw but the rogue release for alpha has been pushed back since they added things they didn't plan for Phase 1.
  • PyrololPyrolol Member, Alpha Two
    I hope they stick to the core of a rogue and keep them as an option for permanent stealth class, will be very interesting to see how much impact they have in groups so i for one am looking forward to it

    Maybe a lock pick ability for shortcuts? or an AOE short duration stealth cloak for the team to stealth passed mobs?

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  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    I hope they stick to the core of a rogue and keep them as an option for permanent stealth class, will be very interesting to see how much impact they have in groups so i for one am looking forward to it

    I agree. The permanent stealth ability, but lighter armor would keep it in a separate role from the fighter.
  • SlipreeSlipree Member, Alpha Two
    willsummon wrote: »
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    I hope they stick to the core of a rogue and keep them as an option for permanent stealth class, will be very interesting to see how much impact they have in groups so i for one am looking forward to it

    I agree. The permanent stealth ability, but lighter armor would keep it in a separate role from the fighter.

    you all need to stop focusing on pve when you are thinking about classes. something simple as "always stealthed" can break pvp.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Morgalf wrote: »
    We will be behind, but gear is BoE. Roll a ranger and give your dude the gear. No big deal.

    Oh dear Morgalf. If you think Rogues will be behind -> wait for " MY " Archetype which will release only first on May first in 2025 ... ... ... :sweat_smile:
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    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
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  • PyrololPyrolol Member, Alpha Two
    Slipree wrote: »
    willsummon wrote: »
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    I hope they stick to the core of a rogue and keep them as an option for permanent stealth class, will be very interesting to see how much impact they have in groups so i for one am looking forward to it

    I agree. The permanent stealth ability, but lighter armor would keep it in a separate role from the fighter.

    you all need to stop focusing on pve when you are thinking about classes. something simple as "always stealthed" can break pvp.

    Well my comment has a gif of one of the best Rogue PvPers of all time 😂

    I remember watching Reckful live, he would purposely que into 2v2 rated arena and 1v2 as a Rogue, there was another time where he was playing 3s and using the old legendary warglaives in a newer expac and literally winning. He was insane to watch in the Arena
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  • SylverwolfSylverwolf Member, Alpha Two
    RocketFarmer wrote: »
    Only question related to rogues is whether the number of rogues will outnumber the clerics and bards in those first few weeks. Trying to imagine an 8 man rogue party and what that might be like.

    Chaos!
  • SlipreeSlipree Member, Alpha Two
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    Slipree wrote: »
    willsummon wrote: »
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    I hope they stick to the core of a rogue and keep them as an option for permanent stealth class, will be very interesting to see how much impact they have in groups so i for one am looking forward to it

    I agree. The permanent stealth ability, but lighter armor would keep it in a separate role from the fighter.

    you all need to stop focusing on pve when you are thinking about classes. something simple as "always stealthed" can break pvp.

    Well my comment has a gif of one of the best Rogue PvPers of all time 😂

    I remember watching Reckful live, he would purposely que into 2v2 rated arena and 1v2 as a Rogue, there was another time where he was playing 3s and using the old legendary warglaives in a newer expac and literally winning. He was insane to watch in the Arena

    Wow pvp is the epitome of what i hate in a pvp mmo. even classic was trash, retail is just plain horrible. I personally do not even like tab target. I would much prefer to have to aim abilities/spells. darkfall online was probably peak pvp imo. too bad the devs let the game die.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    So basically you will be rolling a Mage and you are afraid to be ganked by rogues.
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