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Fighter Information for Other Players and Feedback for Developers

CorpierCorpier Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited November 20 in Fighter Archetype
The Information:

Key Fighter Skill Combos(1):


  • Overpower/Brutal Cleave>Blitz(3)>Battle Cry>Overpower/Brutal Cleave>Berserk(3)>Repeat (Fast Combat Momentum generation and up to 25 second cooldown reduction when Berserk is used with max Combat Momentum)
  • Form of Celerity(2)(4)>Overpower/Brutal Cleave[Applies Staggered](4)>Crippling Blow[Applies Snared then Tripped if already Staggered]/Cataclysm[Applies Shaken then Tripped when already Staggered]>Maim (Applies Tripped and enhances Maim’s damage)
  • Form of Ferocity(2)>Overpower/Brutal Cleave[Applies Bleeding]>Rupture[Applies Hemorrhage](6)>Lethal Blow (Bleeding enhanced Rupture and Lethal Blow damage. (Recommended for Fighter's best single target damage)
  • Form of Ferocity(2)(7)>Brutal Cleave[Applies Bleeding](7)>Rupture[Applies Hemorrhage](7)>Whirlwind>Blood Infusion (Bleeding enhanced infinite mana sustain)
  • Form of Fluidity(2)>Brutal Cleave[Applies Shaken]/Cataclysm[Applies Shaken](5)>Leap Strike[Applies Snare] (Enhanced AoE snare)
  • Battle Cry[Applies Weakened]>Whirlwind (Enhanced AoE damage. Swapping to Form of Ferocity before dumping Combat Mementum into Whirlwind is recommended)

    Not really a combo, but I have found it useful in pvp to take the Shortbow passive that applies Snare, swapping to Form of Celerity, and using Basic Attacks while moving towards them. It helps to catch up to targets running away since they move slower from being Snared and the Form of Celerity passive allows Fighters to move faster depending on Combat Momentum. Plus Form of Ferocity already applies Bleeding through Overpower and Brutal Cleave, so taking the passive that applies Wounded from Greatsword, and/or Longbow if using one, allows for more/faster stacks of Wounded which reduces enemy healing and increases the damage from Rupture.
(1)These are synergistic skill orders NOT rotation steps. Other skills can, and in many cases should, be used in between them. Such as the first listed, in which case burning cooldowns on skills that would over generate Combat Momentum wouldn’t be good just after using Berserk if Combat Momentum is still close to full. The only rigidity is that these skills are used in these orders and the necessary debuff is still active for the next skills in the combo so they have the desired result.

(2)Having the right form is necessary. Each form applies a different buff to the fighter and debuff to enemies with Overpower/Brutal Cleave. Form of Ferocity for attack speed to self and Bleeding (damage over time) to enemies. Form of Celerity for movement speed to self and Staggered (evasion reduction) to enemies. Form of Fluidity for disable resistance to self and Shaken (physical mitigation reduction) to enemies. Ferocity does the most damage under optimal conditions. Fluidity allows Fighter be the best applier of Shaken in the game so it is often the best for group play, especially with other physical damage dealers. Celerity (imo the worst and most situational form) is best when other classes are not already applying Staggered (Mage, Tank, and Bard can already frequently apply Staggered), when all other group damage dealers are Mages that don’t benefit from physical mitigation reduction, when reliable Trips are needed for interruption, or when movement speed is needed.

I recommend that if you have multiple fighters in your group that they prioritize taking different forms. While all fighters will want to be in Form of Ferocity at least part of the time to apply Bleeding and for skills like Whirlwind, usually the first Fighter in a group will want to prioritize running Form of Fluidity to apply Shaken unless the group has mostly magic damage dealers. The 2nd Fighter should prioritize running Form of Celerity to apply Staggered or the 1st should run it if on-demand Trips are needed, but running Form of Celerity can be skipped if other classes are already applying Staggered enough which they usually do. The 3rd/highest damage dealing Fighter should run Form of Ferocity at all times, unless they need movement speed or disable resistance, as Ferocity is the most selfish and highest damage form.

(3)Raging Blitz passive is needed for generating Combat Momentum with this skill, without the passive the skill can be removed from this order. Reinvigorating Berserk passive is needed for cooldown reduction. Berserk is still good without the passive, but its still HIGHLY recommended to take the passive.

(4)Form of Celerity and Overpower/Brutal Cleave are not necessary to apply Tripped if Staggered is already being applied frequently by other classes.

(5)Form of Fluidity and Overpower/Brutal Cleave are not necessary to apply Shaken if using Cataclysm into Leap Strike.

(6)Having the Savagery and Brutality passives add more/faster stacks of Wounded, increasing this skill’s damage.

(7)Optional. Fighter, especially with a mana melody bard in the party, can sustain infinitely without using this skill in the combo.

Very Basic Rotations(8):

AoE: Form of Fluidity>Brutal Cleave>Blitz>Cataclysm>Maim>From of Ferocity>3 Auto Atttacks+Brutal Cleave>Rupture(9)>Battle Cry>Whirlwind>Blood Infusion>Brutal Cleave>Maim>3 Auto Attacks+Brutal Cleave>Blitz>Berserk>Repeat

Single Target: Form of Ferocity>Overpower>Blitz>Battle Cry>Rupture>Lethal Blow(10)>Form of Celerity>Overpower>Crippling Blow>Maim>Form of Ferocity>Berserk> Use Blood Infusion as needed and 3x Auto Attacks and Overpower when skills are on cooldown>Repeat

(8) I make no claims about these being optimal rotations. I personally use a dynamic rotation based on skill priority and cooldown availablity. Also you can always incorporate single target skills into the aoe rotation against priority targets or use high damage aoe skills like Whirlwind as single target. If you have a better static rotation that you want to share, leave it in the comments.

(9) Rupture is optional for applying Hemorrhage to gain increased health and mana from Blood Infusion.

(10) If using Whirlwind or Wallop for single target I suggest adding them before Lethal Blow.

Fighter Feedback for Developers:

I do not like the following skills, will explain why, and suggest changes I think would improve them: Lunging Assault, Knockout, Wallop, Form of Celerity, Regenerative Form of Celerity, Meditative Form of Fluidity, Leap Strike, Blitz.

Lunging Assault does not have enough range. I use it and move forward like 5 feet and it does marginally more damage than a basic attack. Either its bugged for me or it has a very short range. It feels like I would be MUCH better off sprinting the same distance, doing a basic attack, and saving a skill point. Maybe increase the range by 10m-15m and the passive could generate more Combat Momentum, maybe 10 or 15 instead of 5, to make it feel more impactful? It would be even better if it was reworked into a targetless mobility ability that allowed Fighters to cover ground quickly. I'm imagining a channeled ability that consumes Combat Momentum based on distance traveled until it reaches a target. Once it reaches a target it either could gain gain Combat Momentum based on the number of enemies hit or deal increased damage based on how much Combat Momentum was used.

Knockout is counter intuitive to how Fighter plays, or at least to how I play Fighter. Against multiple opponents there is constant cleave damage in melee range that will immediately break the Sleep. In single target there is usually ongoing Bleeding that will break the Sleep. I would like to see this become another source of Tripped. Maybe increase the cooldown, increase the mana cost, and make it apply Tripped against Shaken targets so Fighters have access to Tripped in form of Fluidity and Ferocity. It only seems fair because despite Form of Fluidity's emphasis on applying Shaken, the debuff can still be applied in the other forms through Cataclysm and currently Form of Celerity has a monopoly on applying Tripped without outside help. If this skill must remain a Sleep skill then I would like to see it made into a ranged projectile skill. This would allow a Fighter to Sleep an enemy from range before engaging a group. Which in turn would allow the Sleep'ed enemy to be isolated from a group and kept outside of melee range where everything a Fighter does would break the Sleep. It would also help a Fighter catch up to ranged enemies in pvp.

Wallop has an awkward animation and the damage does not feel high enough for the Combat Momentum cost. It often feels more impactful to just use Overpower/Brutal Cleave or even dump Combat Momentum into Whirlwind for single target rather than use it on Wallop. I like the short cooldown, and think it could synergize well with Berserk if it did more damage and the Combat Momentum cost to enhance it was closer to 25-30% instead of 40%. If the damage is improved, maybe only increase how much the damage scales with Combat Momentum cost and not increase the base damage. I think upto 30% Combat Momentum cost and up to 225% damage scaling would make it feel better than the current 40% for an additional 150%. Also making the animation shorter, more fluid, and better looking is a must. Currently I'm not sure how much of Wallop feeling like a damage loss is due to it's scaling or the awful, long, clunky animation. I think an animation like a fast downward overhead strike, similar to a zornhau "Strike of Wrath", would help it lead into Lethal Blow's animation similarly to how Cataclysm and Maim's animations pair well together.

Form of Celerity feels like the weakest and most situational combat form to me. It is good for reliably applying Tripped, but Tank, Bard, and Mage can already apply Staggered, through which Fighters apply Tripped, making it otherwise only good for solo play and/or for movement speed. Though movement speed is great for closing the gap in pvp, for pve content I think it might be worth while to add to the skill an increasing damage mitigation of around 0.5-1% per 10 combat momentum up to a maximum of 5-10% . In PvP it would give Fighters a better chance to survive long enough to close the gap against ranged opponents. In PvE it would provide a trade off between damage and survivabilty, so fighters could potentially put themselves in a riskier position to continue doing some damage instead of having to backoff while in a form that is more damage focused.

Regenerative Form of Celerity and Meditative Form of Fluidity Passives are fairly redundant and useless. The amount of health and mana they return are negliable compared to what is already in the Fighter's class from Blood Infusion and Consuming Lethal Blow, even more so when playing with a Cleric and/or Bard using Pensive Melody. Maybe instead of resource regeneration the passives could increase the duration of Staggered/Shaken or further increase the movement speed/disable resistance of each form or allow each form to retain a portion of the benefits from the other forms that have been recently used?

Leap Strike isn't inherently bad. I like the idea of targetless mobility abilities on fighter, and the potential vertical mobility of Leap Strike is promising. On paper it is a good skill, but in practice it feels clunky to use. The animation is slightly too slow, it gets stuck in terrain, and moves npcs and even players models when landing the animation. This isn't a skill with a knockback component and even contains a snare which indicates it is meant to control opponents' movement to stay in place. This makes the skill often work counter to it's purpose and it is frustrating when using it may scatter the mobs the tank has so carefully grouped or worse push another player into an area of effect attack. Also after further testing the Z-axis targeting of the skill needs work. It will allow for traveling to a higher postion when the destination has ramped ground between the destination and player, but it does not allow the player to jump if the distance between the player and destiation has anything vertical in the way. This skill needs to not fail to cast when there is an obstacle like a fence or rock in the way, and I would like to see it capable of being used to jump up onto boulders or other vertical terrain that should be within its range.

Adding Blitz to this list. The skill works well when used as a Combat Momentum generator at melee range, but at a distance and especially on uneven ground it has issues with targeting and getting stuck in terrain.

Also, I'd like to see all 3 forms have faster/no animations to make it easier and feel more rewarding to swap between them. Maybe just have the color aura flash over the character while letting players cast other skills. The existence of the Art of War passive indicates that Fighters are suppose to be swapping forms mid-combat. Not needing to waste time on an animation to change forms would help remove the negative aspects of how it is currently implemented, and adding something like letting a portion of form passives linger after swapping forms would also add a greater benefit to swapping between them.

Edits+TL/DR for those edits:

Ongoing edits for grammar and clarity.

Added a tip about taking weapon passives other than Bleeding since its redundant when using Form of Ferocity and different passives have merit depending weapon choice.

Updated/Improved the static AoE rotation (I still think dynamic rotations are superior due to their situationally adaptable nature, but I know some prefer static rotations).

Updated feedback on Lunging Assault to clarify suggested skill tweaks/overhauls. I think more distance and more Combat Momentum generation would be good, and reworking the skill into a targetless channeled charge attack skill with Combat Momentum cost that generates Combat Momentum based on the number of targets hit or scales damage with Combat Momentum usage would be great.

Updated feedback on Knockout to clarify that Fighter currently only has reliable access to Tripped through Form of Celerity's Stagger application despite having access to Shaken in any form through Cataclysm. Making Knockout a Trip skill that could be accessed in Forms of Fluidity and Ferocity would help roundout the Fighter. Additionally suggested making it a ranged skill if kept a Sleep skill to make isolating a target outside melee range more viable so it doesn't get broken by every area of effect or damage overtime. This would also make it an immensely valuable skill in pvp against ranged enemies.

Updated feedback on Wallop to give more detailed suggestions about how I think the damage and animation could be improved. The animation is the primary issue. The Combat Momentum cost and damage scaling may be fine if the cast time is addressed, but I still think decreasing the Combat Momentum cost would help it synergize with Berserk, and would like to see the damage scaling from Combat Momentum usage increased.

Updated feedback on Form of Celerity to add the idea of the form passives Regenerative Form of Celerity and Meditative Form of Fluidity being reworked to allow the Fighter to retain a portion of the benefits or lingering benefits from other forms after changing forms. Allowing Fighter's to layer partial and/or lingering benefits from multiple forms, which would incentivize balancing between swapping forms to maintain uptime on multiple reduced benefits or maximizing being in the best form for the situation.

Updated feedback on Leap Strike to include the issues with it's Z-axis targeting that makes vertical traversal with the skill problematic. The skill works on ramped ground, but objects with 90 degree inclines like rocks and fences between the player and target destination can make the cast fail. I do not know if the skill is intended to allow jumping up onto terrain within range, such as boulders, but I hope it can if the targeting if fixed.

Adding Blitz as a problematic skill. The skill is fine in melee range when used as a Combat Momentum generator, but at a distance and especially on uneven ground it has issues with targeting and getting stuck in terrain.

Added feedback about the length of the animation to swap forms. Ideally there would be no body animation at all, and changing forms could be done instantly without taking up a global cooldown.

Comments

  • CorpierCorpier Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 18
    Edited the static rotations (I still make no promises of the rotations being good and I personally prefer dynamic rotations) and updated feedback.
  • JzooJzoo Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 19
    This is a good post. I agree with a lot of you've written.

    I would very much like to see palm strike another trip. Form of fluidity able to apply stagger. Give wallop a new animation. Current animation is cringe.

    Can we please make swapping forms off the GLOBAL COOL DOWN? maybe make a set cooldown for swapping to specific forms. like 10 seconds. to encourage stance dancing but not make your fingers play DDR the entire time.
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