Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Improving the Cleric Class: Issues and Proposed Solutions for a Better Gameplay Experience
Ebonborn
Member, Alpha Two
1. Issue: Lack of Status Awareness
Problem: As a Cleric, I often don’t know if my allies or party members are stunned, cursed, or debuffed, which limits my ability to respond effectively to their needs.
Solution: Introduce color changes in raid or party frames to indicate when a target has a dispellable buff or debuff, making it easier for Clerics to identify who needs help.
2. Issue: Infeasibility of Solo Leveling
Problem: Solo leveling as a Cleric is nearly impossible, which could discourage players who prefer to play alone or lack access to consistent groups.
Solution: Provide reasonable ways for Clerics to solo level, such as rebalancing certain skills for solo play or adding more accessible solo content options equal to that of a dps' speed at leveling. An idea would also be to add class specific quests with more xp for harder to level classes.
3. Issue: Lack of Mobility Without Stamina or Wings of Salvation
Problem: The Cleric feels helpless when out of stamina or when Wings of Salvation is on cooldown. This lack of mobility can make it difficult to stay safe or reposition effectively in combat.
Solution: Enhance the Cleric’s mobility through a weapon skill tree or revamp the current stamina skill tree to include more class-specific mobility options, making it easier for Clerics to manage movement in different situations. It definitely doesn't help that stamina is constantly bugged and I am using it at pretty much all times until it runs out or I press escape every time.
4. Issue: Vulnerability to Burst Damage
Problem: When caught off guard, the Cleric can go from 100% to 0% health almost instantly, leaving no chance to respond. While being caught in a vulnerable position should be punishing, it currently feels too severe.
Solution: Adjust burst damage mechanics so that Clerics drop HP instead of instant death, giving them a chance to respond and survive.
Problem 5-1: The Cleric’s kit feels incomplete, with some abilities lacking effectiveness in combat.
Solution: Rebalance key abilities for improved utility to make the Cleric feel more well-rounded and impactful.
Problem 5-2: Mend is a spell with potential, but it feels underwhelming and could be more useful in critical moments.
Solution: Enhance Mend or the skill tree to provide more significant healing or utility, making it a more valuable tool in the Cleric’s kit. Make mend an optional spell like divine infusion.
Problem 5-3: Soothing Glow has a high mana cost for a Heal-over-Time (HoT) effect, limiting its usability in prolonged fights.
Solution: Reduce the mana cost of Soothing Glow to make it more sustainable, allowing Clerics to use it without quickly depleting their mana reserves.
Problem 5-4: Judgment can result in overhealing and has targeting issues due to the auto-retargeting system, which can waste its healing potential.
Solution: Refine Judgment’s targeting mechanics to better match the Cleric’s intentions and reduce instances of wasted healing due to over-targeting.
Problem 5-5: Deliverance, intended to be the Cleric’s most dependable heal, is too slow to cast, making it hard to use in fast-paced, high-damage situations. Its secondary form, Divine Infusion, also lacks impactful benefits.
Solution: Increase the cast speed of Deliverance or provide an option for an instant cast version in emergencies like a charge for the first cast and then the second one being a cast and then the charge is refilled after a certain amount of time.
6. Issue: Divine Power Management
Problem: Divine Power does not regenerate out of combat, which limits its utility and leaves Clerics unable to start new encounters with sufficient resources.
Solution: Allow Divine Power to increase outside of combat, so Clerics can enter new fights prepared and use their full range of abilities.
7. Issue: Resplendent Beam’s Over-Targeting
Problem: Resplendent Beam often targets too many people unintentionally, this is a bug.
Solution: Fixing the bug with resplendent beam targeting way too many people.
8. Issue: Limited Effectiveness of Damage Skills
Problem: While Bountiful Bless Weapon has a good mana-to-effect ratio, the other tree's to it seem wasteful and often we can't auto at all in pvp and the 5% damage increase on weapon combo finishers seems lack luster. The skill Righteous Blessed weapon is very unclear with burning stacks and how burning stacks are applied when it comes to other characters.
Solution: Retain the strengths of Bountiful Bless Weapon and Consecrating Wave, but rework the other damage skills in the Cleric’s arsenal to provide meaningful damage options and increase the Cleric’s combat effectiveness. Elaborate on how burning stacks are applied with the clerics 30% with Righteous vs a Mages 50%+ with its spells.
9. Issue: Divine Flare’s Difficulty with Targeting and Cast Speed
Problem: Divine Flare is challenging to use effectively due to its slow cast time and lack of a clear targeting mechanism. It often misses unless perfectly placed, and players can easily move out of range.
Solution: Enable AoE's to be placed at the targets feet, so Clerics can preemptively notify allies of its use and the target can stand still. Additionally, increasing the cast speed or area of effect would improve accuracy and make it easier to land in dynamic combat situations. Allowing it to be placed on allies would also open up new combo opportunities with other classes.
10. Issue: Barrier’s Limited Usefulness
Problem: Barrier’s health swap has a short duration and can leave the Cleric vulnerable to burst damage, making it feel underwhelming and risky to use.
Solution: Extend Barrier’s effect duration or add additional benefits like damage resistance to make it more valuable and less punishing when used.
11. Issue: Defiant Light’s Low Revival HP
Problem: Defiant Light revives players with minimal health, allowing enemies to finish them off immediately. In the current high-damage environment, this leaves revived players with almost no chance to survive.
Solution: Increase the health granted upon revival or damage mitigation so that players have a fighting chance to recover and re-enter combat effectively.
12. Issue: Flash Cure’s Limited Strategic Flexibility
Problem: Flash Cure has 3 charges, which feels unnecessary and limits its pairing with other skills, reducing its strategic flexibility.
Solution: Remove Flash Cure’s charges, allowing it to be used freely with other spells. This change would raise the skill ceiling for Clerics by enabling more skillful, dynamic healing combinations.
13. Issue: Condemn’s Cast Requirement is Restrictive
Problem: Condemn requires Conflagration to cast, which is impractical in solo situations and restricts the Cleric from having a reliable stun option.
Solution: Allow Condemn to be cast without Conflagration as a prerequisite, giving Clerics at least one effective stun in both solo and group scenarios. Otherwise, an 10 second incapacitate becomes ineffective with so much aoe damage in combat. Removing the incapacitate and gaining the stun would be a fair trade off i'm sure most would be willing to trade off.
14. Issue: Accidental Self-Cast of Wings of Salvation
Problem: Wings of Salvation can sometimes be accidentally cast on the Cleric, wasting its potential and leaving allies without support.
Solution: Disable self-casting of Wings of Salvation and ensure it prioritizes allies or enemies only, improving its overall utility.
15. Issue: Chains of Restraint’s Predictability
Problem: Chains of Restraint has a long cast time, making it easy for enemies to avoid and reducing its effectiveness in combat.
Solution: Shorten the cast time or add an effect that makes the spell harder to predict or evade, allowing it to fulfill its intended role more effectively.
15. Issue: Communal Restoration
Problem: Communal Restoration has a long cast time and only a 6 second overheal making it useless in a lot of pvp scenarios.
Solution: Shorten the cast time or extend the overheal duration.
Combat
I recognize that the Cleric class is still evolving, with another testing phase and the introduction of secondary archetypes on the horizon. My feedback is based on current gameplay experiences and is intended to highlight areas where I believe the cleric could be refined for a more versatile and engaging playstyle specific to these lower levels. This is with the understanding that there are no phase expectations in the Alpha phases with a level change.
The suggestions here are not intended as an exhaustive list of required changes but rather as ideas that could inspire adjustments to address certain challenges within the class at the current level cap. I think exploring some of these improvements, or similar concepts, could enhance the overall Cleric experience without disrupting the class's core identity. With these potential tweaks, I believe the Cleric would feel more complete and impactful, especially as the game progresses through testing and future archetypes are integrated.
Problem: As a Cleric, I often don’t know if my allies or party members are stunned, cursed, or debuffed, which limits my ability to respond effectively to their needs.
Solution: Introduce color changes in raid or party frames to indicate when a target has a dispellable buff or debuff, making it easier for Clerics to identify who needs help.
2. Issue: Infeasibility of Solo Leveling
Problem: Solo leveling as a Cleric is nearly impossible, which could discourage players who prefer to play alone or lack access to consistent groups.
Solution: Provide reasonable ways for Clerics to solo level, such as rebalancing certain skills for solo play or adding more accessible solo content options equal to that of a dps' speed at leveling. An idea would also be to add class specific quests with more xp for harder to level classes.
3. Issue: Lack of Mobility Without Stamina or Wings of Salvation
Problem: The Cleric feels helpless when out of stamina or when Wings of Salvation is on cooldown. This lack of mobility can make it difficult to stay safe or reposition effectively in combat.
Solution: Enhance the Cleric’s mobility through a weapon skill tree or revamp the current stamina skill tree to include more class-specific mobility options, making it easier for Clerics to manage movement in different situations. It definitely doesn't help that stamina is constantly bugged and I am using it at pretty much all times until it runs out or I press escape every time.
4. Issue: Vulnerability to Burst Damage
Problem: When caught off guard, the Cleric can go from 100% to 0% health almost instantly, leaving no chance to respond. While being caught in a vulnerable position should be punishing, it currently feels too severe.
Solution: Adjust burst damage mechanics so that Clerics drop HP instead of instant death, giving them a chance to respond and survive.
Problem 5-1: The Cleric’s kit feels incomplete, with some abilities lacking effectiveness in combat.
Solution: Rebalance key abilities for improved utility to make the Cleric feel more well-rounded and impactful.
Problem 5-2: Mend is a spell with potential, but it feels underwhelming and could be more useful in critical moments.
Solution: Enhance Mend or the skill tree to provide more significant healing or utility, making it a more valuable tool in the Cleric’s kit. Make mend an optional spell like divine infusion.
Problem 5-3: Soothing Glow has a high mana cost for a Heal-over-Time (HoT) effect, limiting its usability in prolonged fights.
Solution: Reduce the mana cost of Soothing Glow to make it more sustainable, allowing Clerics to use it without quickly depleting their mana reserves.
Problem 5-4: Judgment can result in overhealing and has targeting issues due to the auto-retargeting system, which can waste its healing potential.
Solution: Refine Judgment’s targeting mechanics to better match the Cleric’s intentions and reduce instances of wasted healing due to over-targeting.
Problem 5-5: Deliverance, intended to be the Cleric’s most dependable heal, is too slow to cast, making it hard to use in fast-paced, high-damage situations. Its secondary form, Divine Infusion, also lacks impactful benefits.
Solution: Increase the cast speed of Deliverance or provide an option for an instant cast version in emergencies like a charge for the first cast and then the second one being a cast and then the charge is refilled after a certain amount of time.
6. Issue: Divine Power Management
Problem: Divine Power does not regenerate out of combat, which limits its utility and leaves Clerics unable to start new encounters with sufficient resources.
Solution: Allow Divine Power to increase outside of combat, so Clerics can enter new fights prepared and use their full range of abilities.
7. Issue: Resplendent Beam’s Over-Targeting
Problem: Resplendent Beam often targets too many people unintentionally, this is a bug.
Solution: Fixing the bug with resplendent beam targeting way too many people.
8. Issue: Limited Effectiveness of Damage Skills
Problem: While Bountiful Bless Weapon has a good mana-to-effect ratio, the other tree's to it seem wasteful and often we can't auto at all in pvp and the 5% damage increase on weapon combo finishers seems lack luster. The skill Righteous Blessed weapon is very unclear with burning stacks and how burning stacks are applied when it comes to other characters.
Solution: Retain the strengths of Bountiful Bless Weapon and Consecrating Wave, but rework the other damage skills in the Cleric’s arsenal to provide meaningful damage options and increase the Cleric’s combat effectiveness. Elaborate on how burning stacks are applied with the clerics 30% with Righteous vs a Mages 50%+ with its spells.
9. Issue: Divine Flare’s Difficulty with Targeting and Cast Speed
Problem: Divine Flare is challenging to use effectively due to its slow cast time and lack of a clear targeting mechanism. It often misses unless perfectly placed, and players can easily move out of range.
Solution: Enable AoE's to be placed at the targets feet, so Clerics can preemptively notify allies of its use and the target can stand still. Additionally, increasing the cast speed or area of effect would improve accuracy and make it easier to land in dynamic combat situations. Allowing it to be placed on allies would also open up new combo opportunities with other classes.
10. Issue: Barrier’s Limited Usefulness
Problem: Barrier’s health swap has a short duration and can leave the Cleric vulnerable to burst damage, making it feel underwhelming and risky to use.
Solution: Extend Barrier’s effect duration or add additional benefits like damage resistance to make it more valuable and less punishing when used.
11. Issue: Defiant Light’s Low Revival HP
Problem: Defiant Light revives players with minimal health, allowing enemies to finish them off immediately. In the current high-damage environment, this leaves revived players with almost no chance to survive.
Solution: Increase the health granted upon revival or damage mitigation so that players have a fighting chance to recover and re-enter combat effectively.
12. Issue: Flash Cure’s Limited Strategic Flexibility
Problem: Flash Cure has 3 charges, which feels unnecessary and limits its pairing with other skills, reducing its strategic flexibility.
Solution: Remove Flash Cure’s charges, allowing it to be used freely with other spells. This change would raise the skill ceiling for Clerics by enabling more skillful, dynamic healing combinations.
13. Issue: Condemn’s Cast Requirement is Restrictive
Problem: Condemn requires Conflagration to cast, which is impractical in solo situations and restricts the Cleric from having a reliable stun option.
Solution: Allow Condemn to be cast without Conflagration as a prerequisite, giving Clerics at least one effective stun in both solo and group scenarios. Otherwise, an 10 second incapacitate becomes ineffective with so much aoe damage in combat. Removing the incapacitate and gaining the stun would be a fair trade off i'm sure most would be willing to trade off.
14. Issue: Accidental Self-Cast of Wings of Salvation
Problem: Wings of Salvation can sometimes be accidentally cast on the Cleric, wasting its potential and leaving allies without support.
Solution: Disable self-casting of Wings of Salvation and ensure it prioritizes allies or enemies only, improving its overall utility.
15. Issue: Chains of Restraint’s Predictability
Problem: Chains of Restraint has a long cast time, making it easy for enemies to avoid and reducing its effectiveness in combat.
Solution: Shorten the cast time or add an effect that makes the spell harder to predict or evade, allowing it to fulfill its intended role more effectively.
15. Issue: Communal Restoration
Problem: Communal Restoration has a long cast time and only a 6 second overheal making it useless in a lot of pvp scenarios.
Solution: Shorten the cast time or extend the overheal duration.
Combat
I recognize that the Cleric class is still evolving, with another testing phase and the introduction of secondary archetypes on the horizon. My feedback is based on current gameplay experiences and is intended to highlight areas where I believe the cleric could be refined for a more versatile and engaging playstyle specific to these lower levels. This is with the understanding that there are no phase expectations in the Alpha phases with a level change.
The suggestions here are not intended as an exhaustive list of required changes but rather as ideas that could inspire adjustments to address certain challenges within the class at the current level cap. I think exploring some of these improvements, or similar concepts, could enhance the overall Cleric experience without disrupting the class's core identity. With these potential tweaks, I believe the Cleric would feel more complete and impactful, especially as the game progresses through testing and future archetypes are integrated.
6
Comments
I do agree we need a better UI to show these things. I think Aion is the game I'm thinking of but there was one where the health bar would change colors depending on the category of debuff they were afflicted with (they had two categories, I think mental and physical). It's much easier to see and much simpler than a bunch of tiny icons I can't see. Like if their HP is purple I know I can cleanse.
Solo leveling is fine. We have decent DPS for a healer and great survivability. It's an appropriate tradeoff for a healer class. We don't need anything more. Besides, the game is meant to be played mostly in a party.
I haven't felt like mobility is an issue yet but if you're always out of stamina, then either you're experiencing a bug or you're trying to block/dodge too often. Use them wisely and don't forget to put points into your Stamina skill tree. It helps.
We have a ton of life-saving options already, especially for dealing with burst. Also don't forget that gear (and level) makes a huge difference here.
The class is incomplete. We're only able to go up to level 25 right now in a game that goes up to 50 eventually, with secondary class choices and augments as well. It will change. That being said, our current toolkit is incredibly well-rounded and the class overall is really well designed.
Mend is definitely a bit lackluster but I don't think it's meant to be a heal used in critical moments. It's more of a small filler heal, but right now doesn't really seem very worth it for that even considering how much better Deliverance is.
I think this is an appropriate risk to reward ratio. It causes us to think wisely about when to use it and making sure we don't waste any health ticks on a full HP target. Spamming HoTs nonstop is brainless healing with few downsides (WoW Druid is perhaps the worst example of how OP and brainless this gets). Intrepid is trying to bring strategy, thought, skill and risk vs reward choices into this game. I think so far they're off to a good start. Soothing Glow has it's uses but not as a perma-spam spell and I prefer it this way.
What auto-retargeting system? I haven't had issue with this. Can you explain? If you're experiencing a bug you need to make a post for it in the bug forum.
You don't need to cast it to full. The point of it being a charge up is you can stop charging early to get a quicker but smaller heal. And we have other skills in our kit to help. For one thing Flash is able to be used while casting for a reason. So you start charging Deliverance, maybe the target is still taking damage quickly so you pop a Flash while continuing to charge Deliverance to buy you time to get a longer, bigger Deliverance off for example. Or maybe you plan ahead and place Divine Flare down for a quick burst on the target after a partial Deliverance cast, or pop Defiant Light or Barrier first, etc. Or maybe you just take the risk and try to cast a full Deliverance and get a massive heal (if they don't die) - but that's part of Intrepid's risk vs reward core gameplay tenet.
There are many choices to be made. And don't forget with more gear comes faster cast times. At 15 I already had shaved .5 seconds off the cast time with gear. I can't imagine how fast it'll get at higher levels.
For me the biggest issue is the UI for Divine Power makes it hard to see. I'm ok with starting combat with the counter at 0 because then it functions like an ultimate/daily power sort of thing. But it's hard to use when it's on our nameplate. It needs an easier to see UI element down by the skillbar somewhere.
I haven't noticed it targeting too many people, just usually my party. I do really like this skill, though. It's a great quick, big, multi-target heal that gets people even when they're not super close.
Cleric is meant to be a healer, not a DPS. So our DPS is only supposed to be complementary to help the team when we're not healing. Skills like this are a useful choice for Clerics who want to choose a more offensive playstyle, but won't be for everyone and that's ok.
The targeting mechanism is clear - you put it on the ground where you want it to go. And you can place it on allies - just aim your mouse on the floor under an ally. I don't understand this part? And the 3 second delayed effect is a risk vs reward choice that promotes skillful usage instead of just mindless skill spam. Yes people may sometimes move out of it, and sometimes a coordinated group can play better to prevent that, sometimes it'll happen and you can't do anything about it. That's the risk we take for being able to use a skill with such absurdly high amounts of healing.
The only thing I'd say might be the skill upgrades for silence and magic protection would make more sense if they were applied instantly, with the heal still being applied 3 seconds later. If a player or mob is casting something, it'll be over before the 3 seconds is up for those skill upgrades to take effect.
Yea I'm not crazy about this one. I understand the intention behind the use - again the risk vs reward thing. I'm just not sure sacrificing my health is the risk that makes sense here. Especially when Cleric is such a high priority target from both players and mobs. I mean sure there are ways to play around this but I'm a bit iffy on the skill ether way.
Defiant Light is OP. I have nothing else to add here. Don't poke the bear or they might nerf it.
How would reducing the skill's charges increase the skill ceiling? The skill having charges raises the skill ceiling more because you can't spam it nonstop but need to use it wisely. And the fact that it's an instant cast spell you can use while casting other spells already makes it incredibly dynamic. Removing charges would make the spell overpowered and most Clerics would do nothing but cast Flash.
First of all, it doesn't require Conflagration to cast. It's a sleep spell by default and you can get a stun instead if the target is Conflagrating. Big difference, and sleep by itself is a fairly useful and standard MMO spell.
Also I know that a lot of players from a lot of classes right now are having trouble coordinating CC's that break on damage. I think it's a bit early to say if any of this is a design issue or a learn to play issue. We all need to play more and get more organized before we say it's a problem. Honestly it's a fairly standard skill design for MMOs. CC's that don't break on damage risk being too OP by allowing a player to be killed before they can fight back.
I also think it's worth exploring the potential combo opportunities we have in our own toolkit and that of other classes that could ensure the target is stunned instead of incapacitated. Seems a bit early to call on this one - we've all only been playing a few weekends.
Are you using hover casting? This sounds like a bug worth putting in the bug section of the forums, or /bug in game.
I think this will be more useful in larger PvP scenarios.
The cast time is fine but the skill does feel a bit weird. It seems lacking identity. The direct heal is small compared to our other choices and the overheal is a bit short. If the overheal were extended it might feel more impactful, and if the direct heal needs a slight nerf to make that happen so be it. I can see potential in this skill but right now it doesn't wow me (but I use it anyway).
-agreed
disagree, after all you are a healer with the ONLY rez in the game. Youre not going to do the same damage as a DPS. accept that
1) you get more stam as you level. you are probably around level 10/15 out of 50 total levels in the game(25 for alpha)
2) spec your points to unlock the double roll distance if you havent. fixes most of your issues
very few times ive encountered this going from 100 to 0 before being able to react, usually when fighting above my capabilities due to current gear. however when you learn of the burst damage from certain enemies if you are low life already you cast defiant light on yourself. so when you hit 0 HP you actual heal up to 25% on your health. also the burst usually happens over 1-2 seconds. not instant(again, unless your fighting stuff you shouldnt be) so use Plentiful Mend on yourself during the damage as its an instant heal when used on your self. I'd recommend setting up a keybind to target self thats easily pressed. i use a button on the side of my mouse.
Aoc combat is very unique. if youre expecting huge game changer abilities that youre probably more familiar with as a healer in wow, stop. but i do agree some could use a bit of tweaking and im sure they will in time
I love mend. when you start getting rare gear the heal amount really shows. also its nice knowing its an instant save when self used, but also takes a bit of planning when used on team members. learn your kit to know what abilities you need to use in different situations. i wont cast mend on a tank if hes at 20% knowing itll take 2 seconds to reach him when i can cast Flash Cure once for a bigger insta heal, followed up by 3 casts of mend to save mana. its more of a filler heal you can pop off easily in between your CDs anyway
a bit of a long one here.. my group was pulling four to five 3-stars enemies at remnants at a time, when they were low(not dead) a bard would run off and pull more.. we would do this for 40 mins to an hour at a time with a party of 8, with me being the only healer. we not once stopped for mana breaks. i only once got low on mana. make sure you have bountiful blessed weapon and cast it on someone who needs it. i think the mana issue is only low level, it evens out later on if played right.
i also dont like this one, i dont even run it on my skill tree to be honest. but might be situational if theres fights with lots of little chip damage that slowly gets everyone low. i havent seen it yet though
not an issue imo. the damage is a little low yes, but YOU ARE A HEALER. still enough damage to solo. just a bit slower
i dont use action cam, and havent had issues with this. if your teammates are running out of it thats on them. if your tank is running around while tanking, teach him how to play better. teaching our DPS to back out of it if theyre full life, so they dont rob the tank of a bigger heal is a challenge, but its one i welcome, i love the complexity of this skill
personally i wont run barrier as setting myself up to die easier, is not worth it. if the healer goes down, they all go down. might be some peoples play style but not mine
use this ONLY in emergency situations where you know someone is going down. but follow it up with spamming insta heals to try having it not pro at all. if it does, its literally a second chance to get them topped up again. if youre channeling spells for a "bigger heal" while knowing the risk. thats on you. i personally love this skill and think its fine as is
not true. think of sitting at 3 charges a waste. same as sitting at 5 charges of Mend a waste. you dont have to use them all. To heal most effectively with this kit you should pop a cast of mend and cure off during fights between other heals to ensure youre getting an extra heal out, and letting the CD build up another stack. sometimes you have to burn through them all to keep a tank up, but when thats not the case, pre-emptively cast these when at max stacks to keep people topped up.
i can see this an issue, i also dont run this one as i think the stuns in this game are not flushed out properly yet. in saying that, i never needed it in solo grinding
if i didnt comment on something, i more or less agree, or was too lazy to type it out lol. but to be short, i think you have some good points to address, however i think a lot of what your asking for isnt needed, and understanding how to better use the cleric's kit would change your mind
Ressurection's cooldown it got this last patch is probably a needed change, but I am sad about it nonetheless. All in all, I feel VERY comfortable playing as cleric. I like the kit, I find the DPS to be very tolerable compared to other healers in other MMOs and I like the variability it already offers.
Nonetheless, thanks to the OP for opening up this thread! This is really good info!
I think you mean Rez got a cooldown, not Defiant Light. That hasn't changed.
I don't think i've ever seen a more misleading post. I mean, with all due respect, I disagree with literally EVERY one of your points - some are just objectively wrong. It feels like you wore vendor armor, played solo, hit level 12, and decided to make this post.
Personally, my biggest gripes are Mend and WoS not casting with hover heals option.
Founder and Guild Leader of -Providence-
Yes, thank you. I meant the revive skill. Ebonborn was talking about Defiant Light and I thought that was the resurrect skill. My bad, thanks for pointing that out.
The only thing i have to add here is regarding 5-3:
cleric has the least mana issues of all classes, unless you have way more mobs than your group can handle you are autoattacking, if you are autoattacking u are at 90 to 100% mana all the time. Definetely no need for lowering soothing as that is absolutely amazing skills at least compared to current levels/hp/game/damage that we have in the alpha2 and will feel too strong if mp cost is lowered.
In pvp or overpull your mana will go significantly faster down and eventually run out that is absolutely fine and should be like that by design. Or other in other words - know your limits and pvp should not last for eternity, if you haven't killed each other by the time cleric mp is down something is wrong.
In-depth game analysis person / love to guide & help
Why are you auto attacking most of the time? What a useless waste of a group spot that is. If they don't need healing there's a lot we can be doing to help the group. DPS in the form of Judgement and Smite, Divine Flare to damage and silence the mob (and keep the tank up) comboed with Consecrating Wave to debuff the mob so they take more magic damage and dispel any buff as well as do a bit more damage. Chains of Restraint for a bit of damage and a slow or root followed by a stun. Not to mention the occasional need for cleanse or sleep. All of this is incredibly useful to your team, helping out with damage, debuffing, and CCing the mob. Yes get in some auto attacks to get your mana buff up but other than that, there's plenty you can and should be doing when people don't need healing. Healers should do their best to be as useful to the team as everybody else. Nobody else is standing around half AFK auto attacking and neither should we.
I do not have point for wave and wave does nothing for us, we have 1 mage and voletile is already on the mobs, judgement is slow cast spell and if i cast that people will die in a lot of the situations, and no i do not have point in that.
Autoattack triggers timeflow or however it is called decreasing the cd of following skills (stackable up to 2 times)
Additionally i am triggering inspiring bullseye for the party while with bow
In-depth game analysis person / love to guide & help
Judgment as a spell is fine as a main huge heal. Right now, it is too large with too long of a cast time for level 25 health pools but should be fine as characters level with larger health pools. However, currently with large burst damage, the target could be dead, if not used in conjunction with divine infusion, because the cast is too long. My biggest complaint is that when using both a defensive and offensive target option, unless you completely drop your attack target(which no cleric who knows they should also be doing weapon damage will do, especially because you should be using Blessed Weapon for mana) the spell always defaults to the attack option. I like the massive heal spell, I do not like the dual nature of it. I think Judgment should be split into two spells or let the damage/ healing options be tree choices
Healing Touch is too weak and its response is delayed. I play a heavy/medium armor cleric that is in melee range. Often my main target is the tank, which is right within the range of the spell. The problem is the spell heals for so little and Flash Cure is just a better option with its bursty three consecutive uses. Even those who use Wings of Salvation in conjunction with a healing spell won't use Healing Touch. One because it doesn't heal enough. Two because there is a delay between the Wings going to the person and the Healing Touch activation. The responsiveness of the spell needs a fix
Mend is not a very good spell. It heals for so little. It is often only used to top off players out of combat (if I remember that I still have that spell). Instead, I find myself using the Hot Soothing Glow for the same purpose, mainly because it has more use cases in combat than Mend.
Protective bubbles are only useful when the team does not have a Bard. Even without a Bard, almost no clerics choose Barrier. I understand the need to have some crossover if a certain archetype is missing from the party but this spell isn't it.
Bring back Castigation as a close range option for melee clerics.
Personally I just target myself to heal. I have no problem dropping my heal target - chances are I'm probably switching a lot anyway. Besides we can only target one friendly at a time so it doesn't really matter if I drop one heal target as long as the one I'm targeting is the one that needs healing most. It would be faster to avoid function keys for targeting and instead either click the party/raid frames, or use the Hover casting option in party/raid frames. That's my recommendation at least.
Judgement as a damage option I feel like is fine. It's a good amount of damage and the long cast time is the risk and tradeoff for that. And as you mentioned we can use Divine Infusion to shorten it if need be. Seems like a good mix of decision making and balance.
I have to disagree with your auto attack and mana comment more, though. It's totally fine to drop your attack target. For one thing if we're healing someone or casting anything, we're not auto attacking. So it doesn't really matter, even more so because our auto attack damage isn't mind-blowing. Our best damage comes from skills and debuffs like Burning and Conflagrate. Same idea for mana regen - status effects are where we get most of our mana regen from. You put Bountiful Blessed Weapon on another player and their auto attacks will generate mana for you, not yours. And that effect lasts for 15 seconds - or if they auto attack enough it's permanent. Same with our weapon skill tree buff Refreshing Followthrough - it lasts something like 10-20 seconds, so you only need to auto attack every so often to get that buff up on yourself (make sure to get the full chain in). (edit: I believe Bountiful Blessed Weapon autos from the target you placed it on procs this buff for us so no need for us to get in full attack chains for mana, just if you want the damage/other proc effects). The only thing you get for auto attacking more than that is that you're not using mana, so your natural regen kicks in like playing a caster in WoW Classic and playing the MP5 game. But that's not typically a huge issue.
Healing Touch I haven't used but it looks well designed to me for it's intention. Personally instead I think Flash Cure needs a nerf and it will make the rest of our skills feel much better and play more as intended. The 3 stacks are fine but the CD needs to be doubled at least. It should be an emergency button, not a bread and butter skill. Too many people rely on it too often.
Mend I agree is lacking. The idea of the skill is nice, instant cast spammable heal with the downside of needing good positioning to avoid the wisp lingering in the air too long. But it's heal amount is too low to make it a better option than Deliverance with a Flash, Defiant Light, or Divine Infusion if time is a concern. And related to that, Defiant Light also needs it's CD increased (sorry people but let's be real).
I do think Mend is a better top-up than Soothing Glow, though. That has other uses IMO, mostly to buffer a tank taking a lot of damage to increase HPS and smooth out the damage they're taking, but for that too it's a bit lackluster.(Edit: I can no longer come up with any situation where something else in the Cleric toolkit isn't better than Soothing Glow, and stacking it with Defiant Light or Communal Restoration is bad and would require too much text to explain why). It feels like the sort of skill that will feel better down the line if our skill tree has more HoTs to offer and people can stack them (and please Intrepid don't ever ever do that, the WoW Druid heal style is a steaming pile of unfun OP poo and has no risk vs reward or real decision making).
Bubble is a weird one, I agree. It has uses but (Edit: No uses I can come up with where something else isn't better). I just don't feel like it's worth the point.
Edit 1/15 - made some edits to thoughts above. Tried to just cross out what I said before so people have the history.
Cleric will be my first roll for Phase 2 as I don't always care to play with others, it has group and solo playability, Ranger will be my 2nd roll.
Remapped Q and E, play in action, also went with smart AOE targeting, so i don't have to waste time moving the circle, anyways E is target self, Q is cycle player targets. Simple healing.
Not true at all. Clerics are great for solo leveling, sure it wont be fast solo leveling but the game is not designed for solo leveling. I can and was able to kill non star enemies up to 10 levels above me easily. Not satisfied with killing one enemy at a time? Go round up a hoard of no star enemies a few levels lower and wipe them out. With the starred enemies if learn and watch for their mechanics and properly gear yourself you can kill quite a few 3 star enemies around your level with little issue.
I haven't really had much of an issue with the mobility. I will say I personally think Wings of Salvation sucks and don't even bother keeping it my kit. It needs some rework, mainly lose the requirement of having a target and just moving you in the direction of you crosshair.
This is more of a gear and level problem. I have never popped like that in an area where I was properly leveled and geared for.
Plenty useful in combat. We should not be out DPSing a DPS class, we should not be out tanking a tank. I would like to see more variety in better heal spells but this isn't Ever Quest with a spell book full of spells to pick from.
I would have to disagree with all of that statement. Soothing Glow is primary go to spell for me. Keep it on the tank at all times. I grab judgement with the first point then soothing glow and abundant soothing glow with the next two points. It's just too useful not to have. Want to solo as a low level cleric? Keep soothing glow on you and watch the imagined frustration on the mobs while they try in vain to kill you as you slowly chip down their hp. I will admit it can be a little bit of a mana drain at the really lower levels but by 10 that should no longer be an issue. Want to make it even more useful? Pick up the perfect timing finisher on wand and/or book. Now you can stack soothing glow on the tank for up to 60 seconds.
Are you talking about dropping the 10k+ heals on a tank with 4k hp? Just think of it as a Complete Heal spell for now. As for the targeting issue, cannot say that I've had that one. Sure, I've "accidently" failed to correctly target the tank once or twice, but that was not an issue with the spells targeting function. That was issue of dumb tank needs to learn or annoying issue of the group window reordering itself so tank is no longer F2 and is now F6 or something.
I have yet to find this one useful and as such do not even bother to pick it up. Everything this spell can do others do better. I would agree that a rework is needed, but I've met others that swear by it. Just calk it up to personal preference.
Working as intended, no action needed.
I have found no issue with this skill and keep it on myself or the tank/ranger at all times.
Agreed, Barrier is all but useless in it's current form. It needs a major overhaul. 25% of my health for a 10 second shield with durability equal to the health consumed? Pass. Mage shield cost less mana to cast, has no health cost, last longer and to top it off is way stronger. How many mages would still use their shield if it cost them 50% of their health or mana pool to use and only provided the same protection that was consumed to cast it?
Personally Defiant Light's revival is secondary to me. I do keep it on the tank as often as it comes off cooldown, but that's just for the extra HoT to stack with Soothing Glow. In my experience keeping Soothing Glow on the tank at all times and dropping Defiant Light on them as it come off cool down is usually more than enough to keep a tank alive with some Divine Flare's sprinkled in. If/when things start to get a little dicey throw a flash cure or drop a Judgment on them.
I would love to see Flash Cure with no charges or maybe just add a couple more to it. That being said, using the healing rotation I mentioned above I have rarely had a need for Flash Cure and not had charges to use it.
This is just from my perspective so far. I've only played healer, Phase 1 I was focused on the EXP grind pretty hard core and spend most of that phase in groups or solo killing anything and everything. I was even soloing the giants west of New Aela at 20 before the gear nerfs took half my magic power away. I had no legendary gear at the time and I did not exploit. For groups I have a select few that I will group with most often and we fill in with random tryouts as needed. I rarely do pick up groups, that's how you get chaos.
I would love Resplendent Beam to see some tuning to be in use more. I love the spell idea but I rarely find use for it in a toolkit that doesnt really have a weakness.
@scottstone7 your remark about Barrier is spot on. What's a shield that isn't giving you ANY additional benefit AND costs mana? I enjoy using Barrier (Barrier + Communal Resto gives a nice additional buffer for the Tank), but the spell itself seems off design-wise.
The only thing I disagree on is Judgement targeting. I dont like the way you need to switch targets around either. If we get the option to use defensive targets, I would much rather prefer Judgement prioritizing your defensive target. Although given the name, that's probably counter-intuitive and it's working as it should.
Did anyone try if the "heals you if target is shaken" also works if your Tank is shaken and you heal them?
I actually love Resplendent Beam and use it a lot. It's my go to heal when enough people in the party have taken some damage. It's fast casting, almost instant, and has the most amount of direct healing of any group heal we have, so it's going to give them the most burst. And it doesn't matter if people aren't close because it will travel to them. Consecrating Wave is nice, too, although not as much healing, but it heals more people which is nice, too. But only if they're positioned well and it's off CD. But I use it a lot for it's debuff/damage component anyway (and the heal is a nice bonus) so it's not always off CD to only use it as a group heal, and sometimes people like to stand all over the place so it's not always as reliable. Communal Restoration is way too much potential healing for most situations so often just results in overheal or unused temp health, and too much mana. When there's enough damage about to be taken it's great, but it doesn't see a ton of use from me.
But Resplendent Beam is dummy proof, fast, and bursty. It's so good. It doesn't really need help, other than my suspicion that it's bugged. In phase 1 it was healing everyone for the same 300% healing which it's not supposed to do. I haven't paid attention to what it's doing now but I assume the same thing. I hope they just keep it as is and don't reduce the healing per hop.
* If you don't know what I'm talking about here or think it's impossible, please check your Gameplay > Targeting settings after servers come up.
With respect to the general points made, my main take is that I feel like there should be an offensive equivalent to Deliverance. Not a held ability that's "nuclear launch detected" for damage, but rather a tactical support that happens to also deal damage. Like, the longer you hold it, the longer the debuff(s?) last. Whether that would mean Burning and/or other things, I'm too baby Cleric to say. I just feel like Cleric needs another offensive skill, but not one that you necessarily press as soon as it's off cooldown, just like Condemn is situational.
As far as gameplay and QoL go, this is kind of a haphazard list:
UI
I do not like the current incarnation of secondary-resource tracking (Divine Power, Courage, etc.). I think not only should this get its own UI element, I would consider adding text and/or numbers to indicate not only its current amount, but its current benefit(s).
Mend
I would personally want the Mend projectiles be significantly faster or maybe just instantaneous. I've seen some interesting aerial pathing (a big curving arc in one case), and I think the Mend projectile velocity is part of the reason.
Divine Power
I want more for this, but I don't think I know what I really want yet. However, I do feel like Divine Power capacity increases should be on the table somewhere, for one (particularly when we get into the 40+ range), as well as other Divine Power interactions besides the tension between "slightly higher chance to crit heals" and "convert into mana or spell completion." For instance, suppose there was an Infusion that consumed Divine Power to make Smite/Judgment/Wave either add more kick, whether that's damage, Burning duration and/or more debuffs.
Additionally, +10% chance to critically heal at full Divine Power does not feel like an incentive to stay at full Divine Power compared to the benefit of the Infusion abilities; that is, seeing myself at full Divine Power feels like I'm hoarding a resource I should not be.
Divine Infusion
I don't really like the current incarnation of it where your Divine Power determines at what point in the cast you can instantly complete it (particularly Judgment). My feeling on this is to have it as a toggle that drains Divine Power with each (cast time) spell you use, allowing you to potentially bombard someone with a full power Deliverance at the cost of blowing through your Divine Power really quickly.
Barrier
When I first read that Barrier converts my health into the shield, I was eyeing it askance. "Why does it require health?" The major reason that went through my mind was the calculated risk aspect to it. In a situation with ae and/or unavoidable damage, it feels like a liability. Personally, I'd rather it be a chunky mp cost. The whole idea of "life as a resource" seems more like something I'd attribute to a class like Necromancer (Summoner + Cleric).
Absolutely agree. I would like more functionality of the Party/Raid frames in general. A color change or even putting the debuff icons out to the side in an obvious way. Just something to let me know there's a problem there I can fix. I'd also like to see a an icon overlay or loading bar overlay for downed players who are being rezzed (by myself or another cleric, so myself and others know their status.) Plus, I'd really like to rearrange the order of my party members without me being the party lead. There's hotkeys for party select, but when the tank is hotkey F8, it makes it a borderline useless hotkey, doesn't it?
I think the solo-levelling is pretty good compared to other mmo's. We don't do a ton of damage, which is normal for healers, but our survivability is off the charts compared to most other classes. Plus, when you get Condemn, you can often just incapacitate whatever you're fighting solo and top yourself up before getting back into it.
I feel like you maybe missed the stamina upgrades you can pick up in the skill menu? The roll and extra speed for running can help in most situations. True, we're not as mobile as several other classes (bard, ranger, mage) but I haven't run into any placement problems due to low stamina. And I don't think we're supposed to be that mobile. My biggest issue with Wings is it stopping me early when I bump into other people or mobs who've stepped in the way instead of Wings always reliably taking me to my target.
I feel like there's several bugs throughout the kit that can make it needlessly difficult, such as wings obstruction ending your movement early, chains lack of a visual indicator of placement, or the difficulty of identifying purify targets, but overall I feel like there's good bones here to work with.
I think the most lacking thing in the kit is Divine Essence, as I can't see it's need with bards and bless existing, and it should probably be changed to some other option entirely. It doesn't even feel like a competitive choice next to Divine Infusion.
I'm surprised your take is so different than mine here! Mend is my bread and butter. I really like this spell as is. It is my go-to tank heals to pepper to cushion damage during fight lulls (I mix it with Soothing Glow), a near-instant save on myself because of no travel time, and a great off-heal to top up dps who aren't in as much danger as the tank. It's low mana cost and low CD make it an essential to my main kit. It's rarely a save, but it's a great preventative measure to upkeep.
Rather than thinking of it as 3-5 separate heals, I recommend the consecutive heal boost skill, and to consider it one spell that you click 3-5 times to activate, depending on healing needs.
I haven't run into mana issues with Soothing Glow yet, I upkeep it on the tank, casting on cooldown, and put the other on melee members who may take regular damage. I cast these almost as often as my bread and butter, Mend, since I often combo them. I do not have the extra soothing glow skill, so maybe the extra is pushing your mana over somehow? I consider it fairly low mana cost compared to deliverance/flash spams or most other spells in the kit.
I'm not entirely sure the targeting issue referred to here, and it may be something with your preferred targeting setup than Judgement itself? If I had to guess, you use mouse over, and it's accidentally grabbing, not the target but another party member nearby? And you would prefer it to always choose to cast on the lowest-health party member? I am a filthy frame clicker, and I have not yet had Judgement cast on the wrong individual.
I agree with this. Deliverance is not a good-feeling spell in my opinion due to it's slow cast time. I know you can get a quicker cast if you release early, but the reduced heal tradeoff feels useless on the tank's larger healthpool, whom I'm usually trying to save with this cast. If you try to cast Deliverance as a repeating main heal, especially if you're ending casts early, you'll be oom in no time. Currently I only use Deliverance when other spells are unavailable or as a 'regular' heal during medium damage/danger situations until the danger's passed.
I've made my peace and workaround with the spell's flaws by spamming Flash during it's long cast period. Even though I have a rhythm with it now, I don't think this spell is in a good spot, or where it was ever intended to be used. It doesn't heal enough for a save in real danger, even at max charge, and it's too slow and too high manacost for a bread and butter type of pepper. Currently, it merely tops off my tank after Flash has done all the saving.
I know a few Clerics who've not opted into the skill at all.
I feel like this suggestion isn't in-line with the class design. Divine Power rewards you for healing by giving you access to better, crazier spell combos that can do even more healing. (In PvP, that means the longer you survive the scarier and harder to kill you get.) I mean, I'd love to be OP all the time, but I don't think I should be! lol
If it worked as suggested, it would just be a mana bar 2.0, in which case just increase my mana overall and make everything with a divine power cost, a mana cost instead. But I think the reward system works well, too, personally. I've only noticed a lack of Divine Power during solo play.
(Thinking of our differing opinions on mend, I might have fewer Divine Power issues because I pepper mend on anything with a pulse!)
Agreed. It's not bad in PvE, in fact it works well in PvE, but I can see it being pretty problematic in PvP. Not only because the enemy can visually see where allies may be grouping to heal, but also because of the slow cast time until the heal pops; it's not something you can drop at people's feet in a mobile, dynamic battle. It might be meant for a hide and regroup tactic, or synergy with a tank shield and wall, but let's be real, that basically never happens. It doesn't seem practical outside of PvE. The silence upgrade also doesn't seem like it would catch anyone who isn't already rooted.
I play more of a priest myself (light armor), so I agree that it does not seem worth the risk to put yourself in a vulnerable situation. Afterall, if you go down, everyone else does too. That said; I've seen some melee clerics with heavy armor use the barrier very effectively! In a two cleric party group one of them having barrier is a great synergy for myself. However, I think a group with two barrier-users is at too high a risk. That said, I think this is a "how to play your class" choice type of spell. Not a risk I'd take myself with my light armor. But! If you go the heavy armor route, barrier might be a great asset! This certainly isn't a spell that's viable for light armor users, but I think it has a place in the cleric melee kit, and it does synergize well with a non-barrier cleric.
I agree with this. The current revival mechanic in defiant light I don't think grants enough health to provide a proper revival timeframe after it pops. It claims it does 25% health, but when I've gotten it to go off, it felt more like 10% health or less, so unsure if this is a bug. I do really like this spell, and I don't want the health boost to be OP or anything crazy, maybe it could just pop a brief shield instead. I feel it should be a combo with something else. Maybe Wings of Salvation? However, due to it's low revival health, and the lack of indication (sound or visual) that the life-save went off; I've started relying on this more as a strong HoT for tense situations than expecting anything out of the revival feature.
I really, really want to be able to use the revival feature effectively though. It would be so cool if you got a life-save combo off like that, but it certainly doesn't feel cool right now. No visual, no sound, rare to see any real life save or recover as a result. For what it claims to do, it feels lackluster to me. I want more flair!! But also, a sound and visual would be a great warning to the tank that "hey, man, you just DIED. You better be popping everything you got if you want to stay alive." Then we could really get some team gameplay going! It could be such an epic moment, but sadly it's just not.
This I disagree with. I feel removing Flash Cure's charges would lower the Cleric's skill ceiling. It's very powerful as is, removing any limitation from it would invite you to spam it, which I believe would be some brainless gameplay. Sure it's got a high manacost, so you risk going oom, but not really if you've got a bard playing mana-song, right?
This may be a misunderstanding. You can preform the stun solo, without a group or help from a mage. The combo is:
Judgement > (Divine Infusion (*optional)) > Smite > Condemn
Judgement + Smite = Conflagration.
Since it is a 4-combo stun though, you could argue it's too long a cast for emergencies.
Agreed. Too long a cast for any dynamic battle. If you try to flee and root moving players or mobs with this spell, which seems to be it's secondary functionality, and the more PvP geared functionality, you're unlikely to get the root ability successfully off of it, the Weakened prerequisite, the slow cast time due to hand placement of spell ,and easily read visuals, I believe make it easily dodged. (Works fine currently in most PvE situations, though) I think just having the spell auto-place at a selected enemy's feet may fix this, the slow cast is mostly due to the manual placement requirement, since the first pulse is what procs the root effect.
Overall, I enjoyed your takes in your post OP and hope you don't mind my added opinions in the mix. I play a level 21 |light armor| Cleric who sees a lot more PvE than I do PvP currently. I prefer larger scale PvP events, which are few and far between at the moment, but I can see your concerns with several of the spells PvP viability. They work well in PvE scenarios so far, but I can see the issues in dynamic, mobile battles with thinking enemies. Many of the slow casts, that also slow your own movement, give too many opportunities to get yourself stunned or stunlocked, and be rendered useless.
clerics 100% need to be more dynamic and rewarding, spamming deliverance is not fun, knowing most of your skills will get you killed in pvp is not fun, having to choose whether to heal and die, or attack and die is not fun. Serious work is required on the cleric with the games TTK.