My thoughts on the resonance change (Positive)

ShivaFang

I was nervous about the resonance change, but ultimately in my testing it seems to be positive. It forces me to be more proactive with my abilities (rather than auto attacking and using them as a situational toolkit).

I did not have a problem keeping up my party's mana - but maybe the formula for resonant pensive melody is wrong (or the tooltip wasn't updated). with 156 Magic Power and 3 stacks of Mystery I was proccing resonant weapon for 275-350 or so. Though this may have been a crit, I'm unsure.

Low priority - but I'd like to eventually see some UI that shows how many resonance stacks I have. the current buff icon is filled by the countdown until it expires and I have no idea how many stacks I have.

The other changes were ok. I have no issue with what was done (and I really like some things like the passive that buffs lovely serenade) , however I do find that I have to spread my points much more than I did before. We are already a class that needs to spread out it's points a lot and not have access to it's whole kit. And I get that this is the intended direction. however the other classes are EXTREMELY linear by comparison. Maybe give them some fleshing out before you go tinkering with the bard any more?

MilosAoC

Yeah some better UI for showing how many stacks you have is sorely needed

trajdl

Heavy +1 for a better UI showing stack count

novercalis

old gamer, i cant even find the buff icon, let alone squint enough to see how many stacks. Sooo many buffs expiring and added, the resonate is constantly moving and make old boomer eyes go ---- GG NT.

novercalis

also not a fan of the resonant change. now Im not holding unto abilities when needed since im just trying to min/max my stacks w/o a care in the world.

ShivaFang

novercalis wrote: »

also not a fan of the resonant change. now Im not holding unto abilities when needed since im just trying to min/max my stacks w/o a care in the world.

You don't need 4 stacks to proc resonant weapon, it's just more powerful up to 4. I just main healed a grinding group using mostly 'quick wit' and auto attacking - the Cheerful melody proc was enough for most pulls unless SHTF and I need to serenade.

you probably have enough things you case on cooldown (your story of choice, Alacrity, etc) plus quick with to generate enough resonance to do what you need to, while saving your situational stuff for actual situations (such as shielding dance before the enemy does an AE such as whirlwind)

Bards truly are a class who can mix it up when played right, this change is an overall positive. when played well it's actually a buff (not a nerf).

The old system made me feel bad for using my abilities - I wanted to keep auto attacking to proc resonant weapon and any abilty I could cast was an interrupt to my proc. now I'm incentivized to use my abilities, but not mandated to spam them.

Warlogic

I agree that the change is a net positive, but on the flip side of that coin I have found that I'm now allocating points into abilities solely because they're easy resonance stack farms. It's taken away from the freedom of build diversity, forces you into certain abilities to stack resonance quickly, and forces you to use those abilities with little regard as to whether the situation makes sense to be using that ability for its intended purpose or not.

Not that this would completely solve the problem, but I'd like to see an ability like Wit for instance, be able to generate 2 stacks of resonance by dropping a point into a passive, or added onto one of the existing passives. This would free up other abilities to be used for their intended purpose instead of just spamming off of cooldown, or it would allow you to free up a point or two in abilities you might not otherwise want to take and reallocate those to more diverse purposes.

ShivaFang

It's intentional that classes should have to have opportunity costs and not be able to buy everything. So far this is only really true of the Bard. All the other classes are far too linear and need more attention before they change the bard any more.

I don't find I'm speccing points just for resonance, except the Shielding Dance perk that gives you resonance when shields break (I use that anyway).

However, there's a lot of new passives that are pretty much 'must buy'. It used to be that 1 point got you burning tomatos and pep jest, now these are separate.

there are basically a handful of things that are 'must have', with no exception in my opinion.
Pensive Melody (at least 1 bard in your party must run this)
Epic Melody (when travelling)
Either Menacing or Cheerful melody depending on whether you secondary dps or healing (I will respec as full healer if there's no Cleric)
Hymn of the Mind (i usually do AoE)
Lovely Seranade - too good not to take, I usually take this as AoE unless I'm main healing and then I single target for tank.
Nimble Dance - cleanses debuffs, but also speed boost when travelling.
Clever Retort - bards must be prepared to counter some skills.
Any Story I usually run Wonder when the mana battery (for Mystery) or Conflict when someone else is the mana battery and I can support the physical DPS. Joy for main healing.
(Saga is a trap - Comedy and Mystery are too important to consume, but you can get away with The Apocalypse unless you like getting decent damage numbers yourself.)

Spirited Seranade (passive), for Emboldened or Glee
Endless Jest (Additional Quick Wit and Pep for jest) - I take this mostly for the pep, but the additional wit is makes it easy to build resonance
Dynamism - 25% longer pep and flourish granting Pep - part of why we are faster than most early game mounts.
Crescendo or Counterpoint as you like (I prefer Crescendo pretty much exclusively)

That's 10 points that are unconditionally required for every bard to perform their basic role in the party. Which is currently half of them at my level (I'm only level 20, since I pivoted to processing at level 10) 3 of those are new.

I also consider Shielding Dance important because I'm on the front lines and I drop it when the enemy does AE damage (my party can largely ignore whirlwinds because I'll either be dropping Shielding Dance or Lovely Serenade during them)
The new passive off Shielding Dance might be important for other Bards to build Resonance too, since it gives resonance when shields break (The name of the passive isn't showing correctly on ashescodex)

4 of those passives are new or have recently been changed. That's literally double the number of 'required' points spent.

New new Merriment passive is also really important, since Jest gives Glee. I use it when healing, I don't have space for it on my current main bard build, but it's definitely one to pick up when I get more points.

So I guess when I look at it this way, I can see why some bards (especially lower level bards) feel like they are shoehorned into one role. But then all the other skills are how you diversify your life. Most of the bards in my guild love the damage on Dark Lullaby - I run it sometimes, I don't like how the bards damage spells lock my actions when I need to react for a counterspell or a shield. Our 'root' skills aren't terribly useful so they are easy passes (I might pick up Mesmerizing Dance when I have a few more points for flexibility)

Warlogic

I think you hit the nail on the head. In between 13-18 or 20 it feels forced, but you do have some room to play after that. I also think that a lot of the "I have to spam skills for resonance" comes from not having good enough gear to keep mana up for the whole party. Once bards get some better gear and more magic power, I'm sure this relaxes a bit.

Why do you feel that "Hymn of the Mind" is necessary though? With the resonance changes, mana does not seem to be a problem with enough procs, is this not a wasted point now on yet another channeled ability? I could see it if you're trying to sustain as much as possible while running Menacing permanently maybe, but I dropped it altogether and have not missed it at all. Curious as to your reasoning for that one.

ShivaFang

Warlogic wrote: »

I think you hit the nail on the head. In between 13-18 or 20 it feels forced, but you do have some room to play after that. I also think that a lot of the "I have to spam skills for resonance" comes from not having good enough gear to keep mana up for the whole party. Once bards get some better gear and more magic power, I'm sure this relaxes a bit.

Why do you feel that "Hymn of the Mind" is necessary though? With the resonance changes, mana does not seem to be a problem with enough procs, is this not a wasted point now on yet another channeled ability? I could see it if you're trying to sustain as much as possible while running Menacing permanently maybe, but I dropped it altogether and have not missed it at all. Curious as to your reasoning for that one.

I mainly play DPS support (even if I'm the only bard) and I primarily use Menacing Melody. Hymn of the mind also doesn't cost any mana on myself, so it's an easy resonance tick.

If the party is managing their mana well I don't always cast it, but otherwise it's something I throw out on cooldown.

If the party isn't managing mana well (or is below half) I flip over to pensive for a bit and then hymn of the mind becomes less important. I run crescendo, not counterpoint.