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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Insuferable exploitative Open World PVP mechanics that needs to be fixed ASAP
Liniker
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Dear Intrepid, I love your game, but for the love of every living god in this earth, PvP is absolute trash at the moment, the only viable way we can fight our enemies is by war decking a rival guild, but then you can drop and join guild at ANY given time, you can alt+f4 of the game at any time, corruption is insane right now, you gain Blight even with guild wars etc....
I think the most frustrating thing is people during fights are now dropping guilds as soon as they are hit in PvP this is absolutely terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP
Currently in Resna, Enveus has disbanded their guild after recent events, they walk around in random guilds now that change name every single moment because everytime they lose a fight everyone drops guild, people walk around swapping guilds every minute, there's no accountability at all
One moment you 2vs4 your enemies,
seconds later they all dropped guilds and start typing shit in chat
just to find a perfect moment to quickly rejoin the guild to attack and leave guild immediately if things goes wrong...
or they do it during the combat which is even worse
This is just extremely frustrating combined with being able to ALT + F4 mid combat and your character immediately disappears which I have been giving feedback about for months now,
Open World PvP is just terrible, corruption penalties are so extreme that pushes you to always need to war deck your enemies, blight stat is obtained DURING GUILD WARS which makes you basically not able to PK ever again because now with +50 blight stacks your character gets corruption V the first kill you do, and we have all these issues with guild wars atm that I've mentioned
Please, consider taking this feedback, these things aren't too hard to change and people are getting frustrated about it, guilds wanna test PvP, and want to have fun, Phase 1 doesn't have a lot of content so PvP is one of the main things we are looking forward to but right not this simply too frustrating,
Suggestion for an easy and quick fix:
1 - DO NOT LET PEOPLE DROP GUILDS WHILE A GUILD WAR IS ACTIVE THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY
2 - 36 hours COOLDOWN when dropping guilds
3 - When you disconnect/alt+f4 your character STAYS in-game for at least 90 seconds if in combat and 60 seconds when out of combat
these 3 things alone would make PvP 10x better, also, please consider tuning corruption down a bit and fixing blight stat because its crazy that you get blight from guild wars,
if possible, also fix the basic guild functions like assigning officers able to war deck, not allowing everyone to invite randoms, seeing members level etc this would help a lot too,
I think the most frustrating thing is people during fights are now dropping guilds as soon as they are hit in PvP this is absolutely terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP
Currently in Resna, Enveus has disbanded their guild after recent events, they walk around in random guilds now that change name every single moment because everytime they lose a fight everyone drops guild, people walk around swapping guilds every minute, there's no accountability at all
One moment you 2vs4 your enemies,
seconds later they all dropped guilds and start typing shit in chat
just to find a perfect moment to quickly rejoin the guild to attack and leave guild immediately if things goes wrong...
or they do it during the combat which is even worse
This is just extremely frustrating combined with being able to ALT + F4 mid combat and your character immediately disappears which I have been giving feedback about for months now,
Open World PvP is just terrible, corruption penalties are so extreme that pushes you to always need to war deck your enemies, blight stat is obtained DURING GUILD WARS which makes you basically not able to PK ever again because now with +50 blight stacks your character gets corruption V the first kill you do, and we have all these issues with guild wars atm that I've mentioned
Please, consider taking this feedback, these things aren't too hard to change and people are getting frustrated about it, guilds wanna test PvP, and want to have fun, Phase 1 doesn't have a lot of content so PvP is one of the main things we are looking forward to but right not this simply too frustrating,
Suggestion for an easy and quick fix:
1 - DO NOT LET PEOPLE DROP GUILDS WHILE A GUILD WAR IS ACTIVE THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY
2 - 36 hours COOLDOWN when dropping guilds
3 - When you disconnect/alt+f4 your character STAYS in-game for at least 90 seconds if in combat and 60 seconds when out of combat
these 3 things alone would make PvP 10x better, also, please consider tuning corruption down a bit and fixing blight stat because its crazy that you get blight from guild wars,
if possible, also fix the basic guild functions like assigning officers able to war deck, not allowing everyone to invite randoms, seeing members level etc this would help a lot too,
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Comments
PVP has a lot to improve right now
I also would like to add that there HAS to be a timer before a guild war starts.
It feels also really bad when a guild waits till you engage a big group of mobs and then declares war on you instantly and wipes you because you were not prepared and still fighting mobs. There should be a timer and a warning "X guild declared war on you war starts in 10 minutes" This gives everyone time to get ready for the war. And makes it a fair fight.
For instance, the bounty hunter system targeting corrupt players is a step in the right direction, but expanding it to include more community-driven actions could add depth. Imagine local guilds setting rules or players building reputations for justice and protection. This would enhance immersion and create meaningful engagement beyond combat itself.
Balancing PvP to keep it both enjoyable and equitable is key. Perhaps adding tools that encourage social interactions and foster a sense of accountability among players could make the world more vibrant and rewarding for everyone.
I would like to reinforce some extremely important points that, if implemented, could significantly improve the PvP experience in the game.
First of all, the lack of a duel system between players creates a huge gap for us, as we want to test mechanics like damage, healing, and dodging in a controlled environment with friends and allies. The game is incredible, and many players are eager to test these mechanics, but the absence of a simple duel system prevents us from refining our skills efficiently. This leads to a feeling of disorientation, as we don’t have a place or mechanic to properly test things without the pressure of large-scale PvP. Creating a simple duel system would be a great solution and keep players motivated to continue engaging with the game’s mechanics.
As Liniker mentioned, it is crucial that urgent adjustments are made to the PvP to ensure that the experience is not ruined by exploits and bugs that some guilds are using to their advantage. One classic example is using ALT+F4 during combat. There should be a penalty or mechanic that prevents or punishes repeated use of this action in PvP zones or during combat. We understand that power outages or personal issues can happen, but when this is done repeatedly as an exploit, it negatively impacts the game for everyone. One idea could be to create a "forced disconnection counter" system, where, after disconnecting during combat, the character remains in the game for a set period (like 90 seconds) to prevent players from escaping combat easily.
Additionally, the bug related to caravan events needs to be fixed urgently. Currently, the caravan system is overriding the PvP and node rules. When one player defends a caravan or attacks, and another player does the opposite in a different event, it interferes directly with guild wars and node control systems, distorting the PvP experience. It is necessary to adjust the caravan mechanics to ensure that PvP is not disrupted by technical issues.
Another critical point is the guild-switching system. Currently, there is no waiting period between leaving one guild and joining another, which causes significant frustration, especially during guild wars. A player can simply leave their guild to avoid the consequences of the battle. It should be possible to declare war on all members of a guild, even if they leave the guild in the middle of the conflict. PvP needs to be robust, and players should be held accountable for their actions regardless of sudden changes in alliances.
Furthermore, a 24-hour protection period could be implemented for new characters, particularly to prevent level 1 characters from joining guilds and immediately becoming targets in guild wars without a chance to prepare. This should also apply to characters respawning at points, who are often instantly killed without the chance to react. This is extremely frustrating, especially when the character is still loading the screen. Providing temporary protection for these situations could greatly improve the experience for new players and those participating in PvE content.
Regarding PvP zones, the current mechanic requires me to manually flag for PvP when entering the zone, which feels unnecessary. It would be more immersive and fair if, upon entering a PvP zone, my flag would automatically be activated, without the need to manually confirm it. This would make PvP smoother and less confusing, aligning better with the game’s concept of open-world combat.
In summary, PvP adjustments are critical to keeping players motivated and engaged. The game is already fantastic, and these changes aren’t difficult to implement, but they would make a huge difference in the overall experience. We are counting on you to improve these mechanics and ensure that PvP is fair, fun, and functional for all players.
I agree with Lineker's words,
Now a Suggestion to Resolve the Guild Issue
It would be interesting to only be able to leave the Guild if the leader or the Officers approve leaving
A simple and efficient way to make pvp more attractive is to provide a small EXP buff, both in lvl and professions when you are in combat mode. A buff small enough to not be mandatory, but relevant enough to make competitive players want it, something like 5% more exp I think would be enough.
wtf, no.
I would not be opposed to any of the suggested changes but according to past statements by Steven, players that are flagged are supposed to stay flagged for 90 seconds following their most recent attack on a non-combatant or combatant so are these players not engaging at all to drop flag immediately or is this a bug that needs to be reported?
BDO had a great system of Guild Decs. You declare and then 10 mins later the Dec went through.
Right now we can wait for a guild to pull a boss and then declare and wipe them. Another issue is because guilds are only 50 people, you can just declare on one of the guilds and kill those players and the people in the other guilds can't do anything unless they throw a Dec up right away.
I know Alliances are on the way but that would fix quite a few problems I would think on the Guild PvP side of things.
Guild Wars not finishing is also messing things up. Right now Guild Wars last forever.
Being able to Alt+F4 in a PvP game is wild. There should be a 60 second timeframe where your character stays in the world if you are in combat and a 30 second if you are out of combat.
There is another issue of unstucking. I am a fan of the 30 second timer but I would like to see maybe on the map or somewhere on the screen where you might unstuck to. Right now people can go to the middle of 3 different unstuck locations if they are being chased and unstuck and you will have no idea where they went.
Blight being permanent is insane especially when you can get it from Guild Wars or from picking up loot. It should maybe be the last 24 hours played?
Also EXP loss from PvP is also crazy. Especially if its a Guild War.
Dueling would be nice but we have figured out a work around of just making another guild and Decing it and just moving people around between the guilds.
Anyone that has participated in a guild war will be instantly corruption level 5 at this point, to lose this you will drop every single piece of gear you have equipt and occur over 1.8 million exp debt, where as the reward.. some glint and to take over a farm spot? These need to be balanced
Steven originally said in 2023 that there would be no death penalties for opt in pvp events but the developers did change this a bit with more recent comments in interviews in both May and Oct that there would be 'some' death penalties.
In May it was stated that materials would drop but there would be no rez penalties, xp debt or durability loss during sanctioned pvp events. Just last month, Steven stated that materials would drop during sanctioned pvp events and there would be a death penalty debuff and 'much less xp loss if any'.
Looks like they have been leaning toward no xp loss during sanctioned pvp events but Steven wants there to be a sense of failure where people cannot die continually and run back into battle so the death penalty will likely continue.
For the record, I do not like the idea of death penalties during wars as I think this favors the larger/stronger groups. The underdogs (whether it be due to numbers, levels, gear) will die more and will suffer greater death penalties for not throwing in the towel and giving up. I would like to see legit challenges during wars where the underdogs are not penalized to the point that no one attempts to siege anyone that appears stronger than them knowing they will face unsurpassable death debuff penalties during the attempt that hinders them to the point of making the already unlikely victory impossible.
anything to slow leveling progression down, I am in favor of.
I think many of us are fine with the xp debt but to place a death debuff on players reducing stats during wars and other opt in PVP events will typically favor the larger stronger guild, penalizing the underdog that is already at a disadvantage.
Steven has mentioned wanting to dampen stats for larger groups and zerg to try to balance these things so placing a death debuff on those that die more in wars and sieges (typically the underdog in the situation) does not follow this mindset.
Than the problem that the war never finish it's a big problem because they continue to came and kill so the only way is disband the guild and create new one.
I personally was killed in town during loading progress because I relogin for inventory bug and when I enter I only see damage without I can't move the pg because of the loading. in the town I think guard must not permit the violence...if someone attack another pg(war or pvp) they must make the city safe, you can try to came and kill someone also in war but the guard must protect the order so if they see you they must attack you.
Maybe in town must be also some safe place, if you are crafting at workbench with open windows for the crafting you attack you and even you don't see that they are attacking you (also this happen to me today, I was in the cook station to take the material I crafter and a lvl 25 killed me without I can see , and I'm lvl 18 so i kill me very fast).
I understand the frustration of the people that like pvp and the think they told are right, so make a mix of all the idea for the people who want pvp and the people who like less pvp. But the importart is remove the toxic pvp and toxic behaviour.
CLICCA QUI PER UNIRTI ALL'ORDINE
These are valid points, I wouldn't get too frustrated with it though. Just not a high priority right now. Guild wars are borked to hell in the current state. No way this is their final vision.
My understanding of the purpose of open world PvP
Open world PvP is intended to allow players to resolve conflict in the world. Whether that be guild conflict or resource scarcity conflict or leveling/gear grinding conflict. If I want you to leave for one of the above reasons then I can attack you and you have three options, 1. Run away and I get the thing I came for and you're gone. 2. Flag up and fight me for your spot. 3. Stand there and die, I take your loot and gain corruption for killing someone who wasn't interested in fighting me.
I believe it is important to note, PvP should be consensual if an mmorpg is going to live a long and happy life. Also, you shouldn't be rewarded for PvPing someone who didn't want to PvP you. That's how crazy Gankboxes start. So many of the comments on the thread talk about "risk vs reward" as being the reason for toning down the corruption system or whatever.
You shouldn't be rewarded for mindlessly murdering people.
The reward should come in the form of the grind spot you now have unrestricted access to. Or the gathering area you now don't have to split with someone or the knowledge that you've assisted your guild in sending a message to another guild. That reward should be the thing that made you want to Murder someone in the first place, not some game system giving you a treat because good job you just killed someone who didn't fight back.
We also need to understand that right now, With the game in Alpha and there being a looming wipe devaluing literally any achievements you might make before then. Intrepid has turned the corruption system up to 11 in order to keep people from running around ganking everyone and in the process giving the whole thing a bad reputation before the game is even feature complete.
My experience so far
In the time I've been online I've only been killed non-consensually once and that seems completely fair. That person turned red and was immediately destroyed by the bunch of randoms in the area I was grinding. I lost an hour or so of glint/XP debt etc. That's 1.4% of my playtime being "ganked" This is perfectly acceptable in my eyes in a game where open world PvP is allowed.
Meanwhile, my friends/guildies and I have spent hours, maybe 10 hours, in caravan events, flagging up and tagging people to see if they'll flag up and tag us back only fighting if they do etc. It's been REALLY fun. That being said, there have been things that ruin the intended fun. Many of which have been listed in the above posts. I'll list them here and my suggested fixes.
The Problem
Unflagging mid PvP. This should never happen. period. ever.
The systems where the problem exists There are likely others
a)Guild wars
b)Caravan events
c)looting someone's corpse
All these things flag you for PvP. Once flagged in these ways there are certain conditions that will drop those flags.
a) Player becomes not a part of that guild, guild war is completed, guild disbands.
b) Caravan delivery is completed, Caravan is destroyed, players choose same side in caravan event.
c) x time passes and player unflags
Previously Suggested Fixes
10 minute timer on guild war declaration.
I think this is great, people should be given time to prepare for a war. whether that be 10 minutes or 5 or 30 doesn't really matter I think that should be part of the test to see what the community decides.
DO NOT LET PEOPLE DROP GUILDS WHILE A GUILD WAR IS ACTIVE THERE NEEDS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.
Respectfully disagree. If I log in mid guild war and I don't agree with my guilds decision to fight this other guild I should absolutely be able to leave and even join the enemy! This makes espionage and political disagreements more interesting. Removing player agency is almost universally bad.
36 hours COOLDOWN when dropping guilds.
Respectfully disagree here as well, it should be up to the recruiting officers to decide whether they want you to join their guild regardless of how long it's been since you were in another guild. Leaving a guild to avoid PvP conflict is perfectly within reason for many players.
When you disconnect/alt+f4 your character STAYS in-game for at least 90 seconds if in combat and 60 seconds when out of combat.
Half agree here, players who are not in combat shouldn't be penalized for logging out via alt+f4 since normal logging doesn't have a "cast time". If Combat logging is truly a problem, extend the combat timer.
It would be interesting to only be able to leave the Guild if the leader or the Officers approve leaving
No it would be frustrating. Removing player agency is almost universally bad.
Suggested Fix
The TLDR is below
Add a Status on the Player characters currently engaged in PvP that overrides other PvP flags that both restricts friendly interaction with flagged player by unflagged players and does not allow character removal from game world until the status has been removed.
Now the Long winded explanation and examples.
For the sake of the examples below and clarity, here are some definitions I'll set.
A player not flagged for pvp will be a "Bystander"
A player flagged for PvP Currently purple name Will be a "Contestant"
A player who is corrupted will be "Corrupted"
A player under the effect of this new PvP status will be referred to as being "fixated" or in a state of "fixation"
I suggest that, once a Contestant damages or is damaged by another Contestant they both become Fixated. This fixation status will retain your Contestant status for PvP for a predetermined period of time 30/60/90s whatever it may be. Fixation will take priority over all other PvP flagging mechanics aside from corruption but will not remove them meaning that at the end of the Fixation period other PvP modifiers will again take priority you're still in a guild war / node war / Caravan Event etc. you're still flagged for PvP but you're no longer fixated allowing you to unflag as needed. Fixation should also restrict interaction with the Fixated target to only Contestants and Corrupted. Meaning, these Fixated players can not be healed by Bystanders or otherwise influenced by them. This also means that unless a Bystander is directly targeted by a Fixated player the Fixated player will not damage a Bystander Think AOE in large group of Bystanders but beneficial effects cast by Fixated will still affect bystanders such as healing. As long as a Contestant has the Fixation status their character can not be removed from the game world via log out/crash etc. and should only update the state of existing or not existing after Fixation is over. Unstuck should not be allowed to be used as long as Fixation is active.
What this means for the above issues
a) If the Fixated player leaves the guild, the guild disbands or the guild war ends Fixation will retain the PvP status of active Contestants.
b) If you become a Contestant and attack a Caravan defender without picking a side, start losing the fight and select defender to drop the encounter Fixation will delay the Defender status from coming into effect on the Fixated until after Fixation wears off.
c)Player steals your loot forcing them to become a Contestant, it takes you 30-60 seconds to come back and find them, you become a Contestant to kill them and they kite you around healing for 30-60 seconds before unflagging at 1hp to make you gain corruption. In the proposed solution, every time you manage to land a hit on the enemy Contestant it would reset the Fixation timer meaning they either need to fully run away and lose you In which case your stuff is gone bro, deal or fight back and possibly lose the things they tried to steal from you + more. This feels much better than the current state of trying to defend your dignity and losing gear to corruption.
d) A group of 3 players attacks your Cleric Bystander in a party of 8 mid pull. A fighter, ranger and mage split off and become Contestants to engage with the aggressors, your cleric now has a choice to make, either become a contestant to continue healing the PVE encounter AND assist the noble 3 who decided to defend your honor but put yourself at risk of retaliation, or stay a bystander, heal the PVE group who is now down 3 DPS and hope the 3 courageous DPS have what it takes to handle the aggressors on their own.
e) A Corrupted is attacked by a group of Bystanders, the Corrupted has Fixation applied to them, the Bystanders do not.
I'm sure there will be more situations where the conditions for flagging are removed when PvP is actively happening causing a lot of discontent (Node wars, Castle Wars etc.) This solution would allow all consensual PvP to play out when engaged uninterrupted by other current or future outside systems while also allowing future PvP balancing such as disallowing interaction with complicated systems I'm thinking teleportation in the future science nodes or caravans changing from ground to water or water to ground and other interactions that would be narratively too complicated to do when engaged in battle and "Fixated" on your opponent A lot of flexibility with this mechanic.
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.
BRO YOU ARE AMAzing but stop focusing on guilds only and more about PVP the WHOLE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE DELETED AND RE WORKED ty
Steven has repeatedly stated there would be no toggle for pvp and that his game is based on PVX where players have an option to be a combatant or noncombatant, these things are part of his core philosophy that he has stated will not change.
He has already mentioned mechanics such as a 90 second timer that players remain flagged following their most recent attack on a non-combatant or another combatant. I am not certain if this is in game yet but if the mechanic is exactly as stated, perhaps tweaking it so that the 90 second timer is based on both the flagged players attack AND being attacked would prevent some of the cheesing.
Introduction:
Hello, Ashes of Creation team,
I would like to share some suggestions regarding the open world PvP system, particularly in relation to World Bosses, nodes, and the guild war system. I believe these changes could significantly improve the combat dynamics and competitiveness of the game.
Description of the problem:
Corruption System in PvP (PK):
Currently, the corruption system that applies penalties for killing players in open world PvP (PK) is quite punitive, and in many cases, it discourages PvP engagement. While the idea of punishing players who kill others is valid, the negative impact is too severe, making it difficult to engage in legitimate PvP disputes, especially in contested areas such as monster spots or events.
World Boss Competition:
The World Boss is a crucial point of interest, but the lack of open PvP in the area surrounding it creates an uneven playing field. The current mechanic favors groups that manage to start attacking the boss first, limiting competition between players and guilds.
Guild War System:
In the current guild war system, members can easily leave a warring guild without facing any penalties and return whenever they wish. This makes guild wars lose relevance and impact in the game, rendering war declarations essentially meaningless.
Impact on the game:
These mechanics limit the game's dynamics, making it feel monotonous and less competitive. The competition for monster spots, control over World Bosses, and conflicts between guilds are weakened by excessive penalties and the lack of real consequences for players. As a result, the game becomes less engaging and loses the feeling of true competition between rival guilds.
Suggested Improvements:
Adjustments to the Corruption System:
I propose a tiered corruption system, where each level of corruption applies graduated penalties that do not overly punish the player but still present a risk. The penalties could be as follows:
Level 1 Corruption: Decreases EXP and % of drops received.
Level 2 Corruption: Decreases EXP and % of drops, as well as player stats (damage and armor).
Level 3 Corruption: Decreases EXP, % of drops, and stats, and also introduces the chance to lose 1 random equipped item.
Level 4 Corruption: Decreases EXP, % of drops, and stats, and causes the loss of 1 to 3 random equipped items.
Level 5 Corruption: Decreases EXP, % of drops, and stats, and causes the loss of 1 to 5 random equipped items.
This way, players would be able to engage in PvP more freely without being excessively punished, while still facing significant risk for committing PKs.
Open PvP Areas around World Bosses:
I suggest creating open PvP zones around World Bosses, where any player or guild could compete for control of the boss without PvP restrictions. This PvP zone could be a defined area around the boss. If players try to move the boss outside this zone, it would reset, returning to the center of the area with full health. This would make the competition for World Bosses more dynamic and strategic.
Guild War System Improvements:
I propose implementing a system where guilds that declare war have entry and exit restrictions for members during the war period. If members leave the guild at war, they would not be able to return until the conflict is over. For guilds that do not wish to participate in the war, the guild leader could pay a sum of gold to the declaring guild to cancel the war. This payment would also prevent the declaring guild from declaring war on that guild again for a set period.
Conclusion:
I believe these changes could make the game more dynamic and competitive, particularly in areas of common interest such as monster spots, World Bosses, and guild conflicts. This would encourage more player interaction and guild involvement, making each conquest in Vera more memorable and rewarding.
Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to the continued development of Ashes of Creation!
Best regards,
[EdwardTeach/KingDemoons]
4 - Declaring war should take atleast 1 hour of preperation time until the war starts, with a timer in chat every X minutes that warns members of an impending conflict.
At the moment wars can be declared instantly and can be used as a tool to kill anybody that is guilded without consequences.