Exp Distribution In Groups Is Unfair

A recent update changed the way experience is distributed in groups, giving more to higher-level players and less to lower-level players, however, while the intention behind this update is sound, the execution is unfair. Let's continue with the change but update it to be fair for all.

The idea behind this change was to give more experience to the players who contribute more to the group, this was a great idea. More effective players deserve more after all. Well done Intrepid. The issue is levels are the wrong way to identify how much each player contributed.

In a recent interview, Steven said "player level is the best indicator of contribution towards the killing of the monster". This is false. Yes, higher-level characters will likely do more damage. Yes, higher-level characters will likely do more healing. Yes, higher-level characters will likely take less damage. However higher-level characters cannot replace the essential parts of a group.

Survival is essential. It doesn't matter how quickly a group could kill something if they can't survive long enough to do that. Every class has a role in a group, but some are more important than others. Tanks and healers are essential for group content. Dps only speed things up, so why should they get as much exp as tanks and healers?

Everyone knows what Intrepid should do. The right thing. The fair thing. Weight the exp distribution towards tanks and healers. One-third for the tank, one-third for the healer, and the final third split between all the dps. This way, everyone gets their fair share. Some classes are more equal than others, and this distribution is equal for all.

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Comments

Nval1d

I'm sure they considered power leveling with this update as the higher level players would do more damage (more work) then the lower level player to possibly prevent boosting?

Smaashley

My intuition says that you are playing a tank or a healer.

Everyone should get the same amount of EXP no matter their role. Every role is important.

Nval1d

i dont have a particular main, i have all the classes except for cleric leveled up highest character is mage. I think we are looking at this from different angles. the level differences are not mentioned here in the post but I'm sure that a lvl 1 and a lvl 20 should get a difference in xp, do you not agree?

Smaashley

Nval1d wrote: »

i dont have a particular main, i have all the classes except for cleric leveled up highest character is mage. I think we are looking at this from different angles. the level differences are not mentioned here in the post but I'm sure that a lvl 1 and a lvl 20 should get a difference in xp, do you not agree?

I agree. That's why I agree that they made so players within 5 levels difference won't get EXP penalty to not encourage power leveling.

Goddess

Nval1d wrote: »

I'm sure they considered power leveling with this update as the higher level players would do more damage (more work) then the lower level player to possibly prevent boosting?

Why is boosting a problem?

Goddess

The issue of tanks dying the most in group content further highlights how unfair the current distribution is. Tanks incur the most exp debt which will cause them to fall behind other group members in levels, which will further cause them to get less exp from the group content and so fall even further behind. It's a vicious spiral. Intrepid must rectify this injustice by making exp and loot fair for all.

Yepod

The 1/3 to tank, 1/3 to healer and 1/3 split amongst DPS will create an unbalance in the opposite direction. Lets say we have a team of 2 Tanks, 2 Healers and 4 DPS. This means if we get 10.000 exp each tank and healer gets 1.666 exp while DPS only get 834 exp since all DPS were supposed to split 1/3 between each other. So by the time the tank and healer is level 15 all the DPS would be 11 for example. Now the team can no longer play with each other anymore because the gap is getting too big. There is a lot of factors to think about when creating a fair distribution system and the current one is unfair to the tank specifically, but this is sadly not the solution.

Mhyth

The larger issue is the leveling curve, that is the increasing amount of XP needed to reach the next level at each successively higher level. Higher level players need significantly more XP to reach the next level and many will resent or entirely avoid grouping with significantly lower level players if XP is divided equally or worse by role irregardless of level. Higher level players should not be involuntarily forced to powerlevel significantly lower level players.

Steven's statements are in no way false. Player level is absolutely the greatest factor in a character's effective contribution in taking on specific game content. A higher level tank will far more easily maintain aggro and stay up greatly reducing damage to other party members. A higher level healer will be able to keep the whole party alive. Higher level DPS will kill off threats far faster reducing the damage the tank has to absorb and the amount of healing needing to be done. In some situations a healer or dps character can tank lower level elite content when a tank is not available. Tanks higher level than the area content are effectively both tank and dps.

Even with XP distributed by on a percentage basis by level a lower level player teamed up with a higher level player is going to gain XP significantly faster. The higher level player also benefits greatly as they are able to take on more content far faster with less down time with the assistance of a lower level player even if their XP per kill is somewhat reduced. Split evenly or worse by role that would very likely no longer be true.

Goddess wrote: »

The issue of tanks dying the most in group content further highlights how unfair the current distribution is. Tanks incur the most exp debt which will cause them to fall behind other group members in levels, which will further cause them to get less exp from the group content and so fall even further behind. It's a vicious spiral. Intrepid must rectify this injustice by making exp and loot fair for all.

If the tank is dying frequently in group content it's likely because the tank isn't high enough level for the content, doesn't know how or WHEN to tank, or there isn't enough healing(due to healer's level, skill, attention span, etc.). In the open world events I was in this weekend dead tanks were either lower level or using that aoe spin attack constantly and drawing too much aggro when there were more than enough dps to take on content and adds instead of pulling it ALL to the tank. Personally I have not seen any inherent 'injustice' in the death distribution.

Slipree

dont group. problem solved.

Fefner

i dont see why boosting is a problem, its in many mmos and it allows guild mates to group together and have fun whatever the level difference. You have to think about very casual players as well, they get left behind everyone else in the guild, they wont have fun and probably quit, power levelling, in games allows those who are casual to hang with everyone else in the guild and have fun.

Gerry

The time required for levelling in a group with characters of the same level should be the same as in a group where players of different levels are together. I don't think the current system is ideal in this context either, unfortunately I don't have a good idea for a solution yet.

I also see the problem that the tank in a group is particularly affected by the death penalty. Perhaps a solution would be to distribute the penalty to all members in a group/party. Don't let your friends die or the emotional damage of losing them will cost you XP.

HellsGeneral

Goddess wrote: »

Nval1d wrote: »

I'm sure they considered power leveling with this update as the higher level players would do more damage (more work) then the lower level player to possibly prevent boosting?

Why is boosting a problem?

Boosting is a major source of RMT.

nanfoodle

HellsGeneral wrote: »

Goddess wrote: »

Nval1d wrote: »

I'm sure they considered power leveling with this update as the higher level players would do more damage (more work) then the lower level player to possibly prevent boosting?

Why is boosting a problem?

Boosting is a major source of RMT.

Here is the thing. You also can't police a game to the point it's no longer fun. Finding it hard to find teams with my guildies. I'm a Bard so I'm useful even if I am off by 4 level. But most of my guild is 16+ and I'm looking level 12.

Also I would play more but my wife can't. So I have to decide when launch if I want to balance two chars. One with my wife and one when she can't play. So I will be behind the guild again. Or I don't play with my wife.

There is other ways that stop gold farmer. Letting people play together is what MMOs are about. At this point I'm already not having fun because teaming is more of a challenge then it should be and the corner stone of this game is getting teamed up. Not a good look.

Soultion: balance your exp by your level that is fair not at a rate is a power level.

nanfoodle

Slipree wrote: »

dont group. problem solved.

Sad to be said for a game that's designed for teaming. As a Bard that breaks my heart.

Sathrago

The solution is to use a 3-level range where experience (XP) gain remains unchanged. This ensures fair distribution of XP, preventing players from feeling bad about leveling with others. If everyone in a group is within 3 levels of each other, no one will outlevel or fall behind.

Beyond this 3-level range, add an additional 3-level buffer with reduced XP for lower-level players. After that, XP should be nerfed to 99% of normal.

Fippy

Sathrago wrote: »

Beyond this 3-level range, add an additional 3-level buffer with reduced XP for lower-level players. After that, XP should be nerfed to 99% of normal.

Three levels seems pretty limiting, unless you mean 3 up and 3 down, 6 level difference between the highest and lowest player. Especially at lower levels. I've regularly been grouping with people at a level spread of 5 or so. It's not uncommon at all to have an underleveled healer with a higher level tank. I do agree that after a certain level, the lowest level player just shouldn't get exp, but 3 is just super limiting.

Flashfirez23

There is no way to accurately assess who is contributing more or less to a group. There are many things players can do to make big impacts in the group that Intrepid will have no way of accounting for. Everyone should just get the same amount of exp. If someone isn’t pulling their weight and it’s causing a genuine issue kick them from the group. I liked how group exp worked before the change.

Kalnazzar

Fefner wrote: »

i dont see why boosting is a problem, its in many mmos and it allows guild mates to group together and have fun whatever the level difference. You have to think about very casual players as well, they get left behind everyone else in the guild, they wont have fun and probably quit, power levelling, in games allows those who are casual to hang with everyone else in the guild and have fun.

If your guild only values you for how quickly you can hit max level to help them blow through endgame content—and won’t spend time with you otherwise because it might cost them a little XP—that says a lot about their priorities.
The entire point of an MMO is sharing a world with countless other players. Maybe, just maybe, it’s worth taking a day to help level your guildmates, even if it doesn’t earn you a level. Instead of obsessing over efficiency, focus on the fun and camaraderie of the journey.
Leveling is supposed to be an experience that enriches the game—not something to be trivialized and blitzed through as fast as possible. If the joy of teamwork and creating lasting memories doesn’t outweigh the ‘grind,’ it might be time to rethink what you're playing for.
A guild should be about teamwork, camaraderie, and shared adventures, not just personal gain. If someone’s only willing to group up when it benefits them the most, perhaps reconsider whether that’s the kind of group you want to be part of. Playing in a guild is about lifting each other up, not treating members as tools for selfish progress.

Ghostgg

It's more harm than good IMO. There isn't an issue with boosting. It's a social game, why is me getting a full set of blue gear at 10/20 fine but not partying with friends for power leveling?

Both achieve the same thing. If I had a full set of blue 10 gear as soon as I dinged 10 I could solo to 20 extremely fast then boom get a 20 set from same friends.

This is just meaningless convolution which doesn't fix the "problem". Please open the gap at least to 5-8 level spreads

MincVinyl

It makes more sense for:

Anyone(not only grouped players) who contributed for a required percentage of time towards the engagement gets claim towards that mobs xp.
Then the share of xp is split based on level ratio
Then players only gain xp within a certain level range of the mob ~4 levels?

This creates a soft lossful system. Lets say a level 40 helps a level 10 (4:1 ratio). If the lvl 10 mob is worth 100xp the level 40 lays claim to 80xp and the lvl10 player lays claim to 20xp. Then because the lvl40 is overleveled that 80xp is discarded.

Now lets say we have 2 level 10 players fighting a lvl10 mob(1:1 ratio) Here both players would receive 50xp(2.5x more xp faster farm when actually playing the game)

The issue is that the players will progress equally while leveling. So the lower level player will never catch up to their group. They will always feel behind until everyone hits max level. This will become evident when you have a mmo player trying to make their non mmo friends/partners try playing the game with them.

To allow for a catchup system, you inevitably need to allow for boosting. Perhaps if all players are within the 4 level mark you would disregard the ratio distribution. Thus allowing for soft localized boosting without allowing for RMT in our lvl50 grouped with a lvl10 scenario

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