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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
solo pvp, corruption, suggestions, ideas, comments feelings, etc.
1Problem
Member, Alpha Two
before you decide if you're going to take the time to read this post or not... please take a moment to consider you don't have to make the ITS JUST AN ALPHA THE DEVELOPERS KNOW BETTER LET THE SYSTEM GET COMPLETED comment you made on the 7 posts before mine, this is my personal opinion on my personal post about the state of things, based on my video gaming experiences. thank you.
a little background on me, the main "mmorpg" i played most of my life was runescape, (OSRS) i started at about the age of 7, and played for roughly 20 years. that being said i think its a fair assumption i have 20k+ hours in it. most of my "adult life" I've been a FPS gamer, 2 games i REALLY enjoyed was old APEX legends (multi time master 8-10k hour range) and RUST (i believe i have around 4-5k hours in that game) .. one thing i REALLY like about rust is the risk vs reward. the risk is you lose everything, the reward is you gain everything. mentioning I'm a 20k+ hour OSRS and RUST player (if you know those games) you can make a fair assumption I LOVE THE GRIND. to me, there is no better feeling then seeing every second you put in to a game results in some kind of benefit to you as the player, it really separates the casuals from the maingame-ers i see a lot of complaints about like the 1.5m xp gaps for leveling past 20.. and its laughable to me. i LOVE the idea of a system that when you see like a level 65 (or in alphas case 25) where you can see a player of a higher level and be like.. wow that dude put some TIME in. that was one of the things that turned me off from current day WoW... buy the game and bam max character, now go play the game. sorry for the yapping lets get in to AoC. I'll try to relate any of my ideas to games I'm getting them from, so it makes sense for those that know what I'm talking about. for reference, i am basically (like 200k off) a level 21 Ranger on the Vyra server.
my first point and a change I'd genuinely like to see:
this is a idea straight out of how OSRS worked, and i think its a beautiful system. first of all. AoC looting system is atrocious.
- players killed by mobs should have a 1 minute timer to get back to their body before it is lootable by anyone else. this is a great change because if you're even level 10+ you know about people pulling the pyro to grief you at highwaymen or on the higher level spectrum, guilds pulling mobs to kill you at carp/seph/steel bloom
- players that killed another player should be the only ones able to loot the body on the same 1 minute timer. this will prevent those ... people ... that literally sit in your way as you're pvping then steal all your loot and even if you kill them, they got more than you. sure they're "flagged for pvp now" but they still get half and you get a quarter of what you originally deserved.
my second point:
this is more of a rust ideology.
ALL ITEMS SHOULD BE LOST IN A PVP DEATH. (i mean this as a flagged player vs a flagged player) with professions, mob drops etc, enough gear should be pushed out to the economy where killing someone is worth it. in the current state of the game the meta is really just... don't bring and glint and materials and there's no punishment for dying in PVP other than paying like 4 silver to repair gear, but no benefit to the killer really.
my third point:
this comes from OSRS.
there should be solo friendly PVP zones, as someone who loves roaming the map and is open to fight anyone, there should be a zone where PVP is open to only 1v1s instead of your only option being joining a guild or getting dog walked by a guild. IN MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION, a zone where you can get a 1v1 then get put on like a 20 second no-combat timer so you can recover abilities and heal instead of getting PJ'd by the 5 man rolling in the 1v1 zone would be a beautiful addition.
my fourth point:
this stems from rust mainly i think? maybe a little of my osrs grind?
the farmers on this game are some of the BIGGEST crybabies i ever seen. either I'm the luckiest person in the world or legendary materials are not that hard to get. with all my professions being around the 5-8 range I've gotten just about at least 1 "drop" of legendary everything from the level 1 range. lets make something clear.. if legendary is BIS it shouldn't be that easily accessible TO ME a like 1/10000 drop rate for a legendary item that is BIS sounds more than reasonable. not every player needs bis, and if legendary gear drops from world bosses, your level 3 players shouldn't have access to the materials to make them, i get they don't have the crafting recipe, but access to the material is still insane to me. I'll bring this up in a later point.
fifth point:
this one will probably be the most hated as i said, the farmers here seem to be this biggest crybabies. BROTHER, nobody is stopping you from BOOKING IT to the closest town once you get that legendary wood or whatever. farmers should lose ALL farmable materials on death in PVP (if not all at least all rare-legendary materials). the game is labeled as open world PVP. Farming simulator 25 just dropped and might be more in your wheelhouse if you want risk free reward. my suggestion for this system is the farmer loses all their materials and the person that killed them gets half. this would GREATLY stabilize the economy long term, and add benefit to pvp... and lets get one thing straight.. farmers aren't not able to PVP they never cry when they get attacked and kill someone that it's not fair the other person died.. they have a weapon, class and abilities just like everyone else. its not like you had to leave your sword at the bank to farm....
to dive a little deeper in this and make it fair... if a player attacks a non-combatant I don't think the non-combatant should have to risk their gear, but the attacker (in current state corrupted) should risk it all. this will make PKing farmers just as risky as it is losing your legendary material.
sixth point:
you didn't like point 5? fair, i understand completely. here's my counter-idea. remember how i said flagged player should lose everything?... make only common/uncommon drops in most areas of the map --- and areas where you can get rare-legendary are lawless zones where you lose everything OR you have to flag for PvP to get rare or better... this is a more than fair adjustment considering the fact i seen people in chat buying items such as legendary rubies for like 4 gold a piece. if you can get up to 5 per node you don't deserve 20 gold for hitting 5 rocks getting lucky ands getting legendary considering mob farming is slowly painful and most grinders are hard stuck in like mostly green with some blue gear.
the constant loss of gear in high risk zones will increase the playability, adds a TRUE risk vs. reward factor to the game, and in the long run will stabilize the economy.
seventh point:
to recap back to when i said "ill bring this up in a later point" ... mob drops.. if you've read my post about drop rates you know I'm not happy as someone who grinded well over 3k seph/carp kills to see ZERO items. as someone who is struggling to even gear in full level 10 blue gear as a level 20.. again i feel like the farmers are heavily favored but whatever, that's irrelevant. mob drops should be more frequent and more class specific depending on whose on the team, in a "open world pvp" scenario where i would lose all my stuff on death... i would expect to be able to farm a full set of gear i can go pvp in a relatively fair time... (iin my head relatively fair is anywhere in the 3-10 hour range.. it took me well over 100 hours to have a piece of gear in every slot) I'm not saying the drops can't all/mostly green... but when you have level 20+ mob grinders with merchant gear and level 7 farmers in legendary gear.. something has to change.
eight point:
boy is this a heavily debated topic... corruption ... and again I'm coming from the perspective of someone that likes to kill
lets get this out the way..... killing mobs to lower corruption is a meme at best.
corrupt players do deserve SOME KIND of penalty but like... killing 300 mobs... my pet hamster if i had one could come up with a better idea in 30 minutes. before i get in to completely SLAMMING AoC for their piss-poor design. i want to say.. this is one of the most enjoyable games i ever played and even in alpha a lot of things are very well thought out, the game is fun, engaging, has WAY MORE positives than negatives, and i could see this game being up there with games like WoW.
back to the slamming - the corruption system is god awful and i have beef with whatever farm-bot, roleplayer, pacifist, developer put it in to play. they took a OPEN WORLD PVP game and made it so punitive that there is zero benefits to it and even if you decide to take the risk you get punished for the next 8+ hours of game time in xp debt and gear loss for ABSOLUTELY no benefit.
this is personally to whoever developed the corruption system: i hate you with a passion. killing mobs really? that's the BEST you could come up with? even in a short period of time for a playtest?
Here's some REAL and VIABLE ways to handle corruption.
-15 minute timer where you're marked on the map to the person you killed. if they want their revenge they have plenty of time, they can even try to bring a friend to get their stuff back etc. the corrupt player runs the risk of getting attacked by literally anyone and having to fear for their life, the "non combatant" has every chance to get their stuff back.
-a moving "corrupted zone" where corrupted players can go to take their 15 minute cooldown to something like the 5-10 minute range by being in the zone... this zone will be full of other corrupted players, a strictly 1v1 PvP zone like discussed above, and other players (who are flagged for PvP when they enter the zone. (again full loot pvp) where they can try to hunt down the corrupted.. if a corrupted player is in a corrupted zone.. they probably got that goop on them, so it would encourage players to go hunt these guys down.
- a "pay for your sins" option. where you have to pay right before entering a node.. (in current economy, subject to change or could even be subject to how many people you killed) lets say like something up there but not ridicules like 5 gold to become uncorrupt by paying in to the city. this would help nodes progress with people from within or even people traveling past a node... the fee then gets directly donated in to the node... lets say you kill someone with 20 legendary wood on them.. good for you man the 5 gold fee was worth it... but lets say you killed a player with 2 common oak on them... too bad so sad... you still killed someone and they lost their materials, you still have to pay a fee to become uncorrupted.
- make a system where you can "fight off corruption" currently if you're corrupt you're literally free to non-combatants they don't even have to flag AND you get debuffs... laughable... if you don't want to make the NONCOMBATANTS flag to engage in COMBAT then there should be some kind of "kill 1 non-combatants that attacked you first to become uncorrupt per level of corruption" endgame or something similar. not fight for your life for 13 hours while trying to farm enough mobs (which at level 20 you pretty much have to go to a named location FULL OF PLAYERS) to remove corruption. and after killing 50+ mobs get attacked by a group of 5 non combatants just to be put in 300k xp debt.
you might be wondering why I'm so passionate on the corruption system... here's a background story....
over the weekend me and my friends attacked a caravan.. it was Monday at like 6 am (PST for convenience) i did the scatter shot (aoe) attack .. and as i hit it like a level like 7 bard logged in right in front of me like at the PERFECT moment... and i took half his health, said sorry he said all good and went on his way.. and we continued attacking the caravan.. this put me at level 2 corruption.. after we destroyed the caravan.. i spent TWO HOURS farming golem saplings in the lawless zone .. at roughly roughly 2.2k xp each with 3 of us in the group... my corruption didn't even drop to level 1 so i just took the L. got almost 300k xp debt and "loss of gear" .. luckily it was my friends that killed me.. over an AOE where someone logged in as i hit it. (we killed all the defenders and were just pretty much finishing off the caravan when this happened) .. we farmed the saplings for 2 hours, (after i had to fight off like 6 people attacking me on the way there btw) and when i didn't drop at all i took the L, let them kill me, and we went to carp to try to clean up the XP debt till the servers went down.. I'm down to like 130k, which is no big deal i don't care that much. but all i did those last 3 hours was think about how whoever developed the PVP/corruption system is on their last 3 braincells. and i genuinely hope that developer reads this absolute dictionary of a post and uses it as encouragement to not be the reason a other-than-that perfect product goes in the trash to any player that enjoys a PvP experience in games.
I'm sure this post will get scrutinized 3000000 times, and I'm fine with that as long as your feedback is about the actual ideas and isn't you just saying "its still in development" "its only an alpha" or "its not a complete product" because if its that incomplete and piss poorly designed, they just shouldn't have added the PvP element yet, the purpose of a forum is to list feedbacks, discussions and suggestions.. and that's all this is.
thought?
opinions?
comments?
gripes?
concerns?
agencies?
disagrees?
a little background on me, the main "mmorpg" i played most of my life was runescape, (OSRS) i started at about the age of 7, and played for roughly 20 years. that being said i think its a fair assumption i have 20k+ hours in it. most of my "adult life" I've been a FPS gamer, 2 games i REALLY enjoyed was old APEX legends (multi time master 8-10k hour range) and RUST (i believe i have around 4-5k hours in that game) .. one thing i REALLY like about rust is the risk vs reward. the risk is you lose everything, the reward is you gain everything. mentioning I'm a 20k+ hour OSRS and RUST player (if you know those games) you can make a fair assumption I LOVE THE GRIND. to me, there is no better feeling then seeing every second you put in to a game results in some kind of benefit to you as the player, it really separates the casuals from the maingame-ers i see a lot of complaints about like the 1.5m xp gaps for leveling past 20.. and its laughable to me. i LOVE the idea of a system that when you see like a level 65 (or in alphas case 25) where you can see a player of a higher level and be like.. wow that dude put some TIME in. that was one of the things that turned me off from current day WoW... buy the game and bam max character, now go play the game. sorry for the yapping lets get in to AoC. I'll try to relate any of my ideas to games I'm getting them from, so it makes sense for those that know what I'm talking about. for reference, i am basically (like 200k off) a level 21 Ranger on the Vyra server.
my first point and a change I'd genuinely like to see:
this is a idea straight out of how OSRS worked, and i think its a beautiful system. first of all. AoC looting system is atrocious.
- players killed by mobs should have a 1 minute timer to get back to their body before it is lootable by anyone else. this is a great change because if you're even level 10+ you know about people pulling the pyro to grief you at highwaymen or on the higher level spectrum, guilds pulling mobs to kill you at carp/seph/steel bloom
- players that killed another player should be the only ones able to loot the body on the same 1 minute timer. this will prevent those ... people ... that literally sit in your way as you're pvping then steal all your loot and even if you kill them, they got more than you. sure they're "flagged for pvp now" but they still get half and you get a quarter of what you originally deserved.
my second point:
this is more of a rust ideology.
ALL ITEMS SHOULD BE LOST IN A PVP DEATH. (i mean this as a flagged player vs a flagged player) with professions, mob drops etc, enough gear should be pushed out to the economy where killing someone is worth it. in the current state of the game the meta is really just... don't bring and glint and materials and there's no punishment for dying in PVP other than paying like 4 silver to repair gear, but no benefit to the killer really.
my third point:
this comes from OSRS.
there should be solo friendly PVP zones, as someone who loves roaming the map and is open to fight anyone, there should be a zone where PVP is open to only 1v1s instead of your only option being joining a guild or getting dog walked by a guild. IN MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION, a zone where you can get a 1v1 then get put on like a 20 second no-combat timer so you can recover abilities and heal instead of getting PJ'd by the 5 man rolling in the 1v1 zone would be a beautiful addition.
my fourth point:
this stems from rust mainly i think? maybe a little of my osrs grind?
the farmers on this game are some of the BIGGEST crybabies i ever seen. either I'm the luckiest person in the world or legendary materials are not that hard to get. with all my professions being around the 5-8 range I've gotten just about at least 1 "drop" of legendary everything from the level 1 range. lets make something clear.. if legendary is BIS it shouldn't be that easily accessible TO ME a like 1/10000 drop rate for a legendary item that is BIS sounds more than reasonable. not every player needs bis, and if legendary gear drops from world bosses, your level 3 players shouldn't have access to the materials to make them, i get they don't have the crafting recipe, but access to the material is still insane to me. I'll bring this up in a later point.
fifth point:
this one will probably be the most hated as i said, the farmers here seem to be this biggest crybabies. BROTHER, nobody is stopping you from BOOKING IT to the closest town once you get that legendary wood or whatever. farmers should lose ALL farmable materials on death in PVP (if not all at least all rare-legendary materials). the game is labeled as open world PVP. Farming simulator 25 just dropped and might be more in your wheelhouse if you want risk free reward. my suggestion for this system is the farmer loses all their materials and the person that killed them gets half. this would GREATLY stabilize the economy long term, and add benefit to pvp... and lets get one thing straight.. farmers aren't not able to PVP they never cry when they get attacked and kill someone that it's not fair the other person died.. they have a weapon, class and abilities just like everyone else. its not like you had to leave your sword at the bank to farm....
to dive a little deeper in this and make it fair... if a player attacks a non-combatant I don't think the non-combatant should have to risk their gear, but the attacker (in current state corrupted) should risk it all. this will make PKing farmers just as risky as it is losing your legendary material.
sixth point:
you didn't like point 5? fair, i understand completely. here's my counter-idea. remember how i said flagged player should lose everything?... make only common/uncommon drops in most areas of the map --- and areas where you can get rare-legendary are lawless zones where you lose everything OR you have to flag for PvP to get rare or better... this is a more than fair adjustment considering the fact i seen people in chat buying items such as legendary rubies for like 4 gold a piece. if you can get up to 5 per node you don't deserve 20 gold for hitting 5 rocks getting lucky ands getting legendary considering mob farming is slowly painful and most grinders are hard stuck in like mostly green with some blue gear.
the constant loss of gear in high risk zones will increase the playability, adds a TRUE risk vs. reward factor to the game, and in the long run will stabilize the economy.
seventh point:
to recap back to when i said "ill bring this up in a later point" ... mob drops.. if you've read my post about drop rates you know I'm not happy as someone who grinded well over 3k seph/carp kills to see ZERO items. as someone who is struggling to even gear in full level 10 blue gear as a level 20.. again i feel like the farmers are heavily favored but whatever, that's irrelevant. mob drops should be more frequent and more class specific depending on whose on the team, in a "open world pvp" scenario where i would lose all my stuff on death... i would expect to be able to farm a full set of gear i can go pvp in a relatively fair time... (iin my head relatively fair is anywhere in the 3-10 hour range.. it took me well over 100 hours to have a piece of gear in every slot) I'm not saying the drops can't all/mostly green... but when you have level 20+ mob grinders with merchant gear and level 7 farmers in legendary gear.. something has to change.
eight point:
boy is this a heavily debated topic... corruption ... and again I'm coming from the perspective of someone that likes to kill
lets get this out the way..... killing mobs to lower corruption is a meme at best.
corrupt players do deserve SOME KIND of penalty but like... killing 300 mobs... my pet hamster if i had one could come up with a better idea in 30 minutes. before i get in to completely SLAMMING AoC for their piss-poor design. i want to say.. this is one of the most enjoyable games i ever played and even in alpha a lot of things are very well thought out, the game is fun, engaging, has WAY MORE positives than negatives, and i could see this game being up there with games like WoW.
back to the slamming - the corruption system is god awful and i have beef with whatever farm-bot, roleplayer, pacifist, developer put it in to play. they took a OPEN WORLD PVP game and made it so punitive that there is zero benefits to it and even if you decide to take the risk you get punished for the next 8+ hours of game time in xp debt and gear loss for ABSOLUTELY no benefit.
this is personally to whoever developed the corruption system: i hate you with a passion. killing mobs really? that's the BEST you could come up with? even in a short period of time for a playtest?
Here's some REAL and VIABLE ways to handle corruption.
-15 minute timer where you're marked on the map to the person you killed. if they want their revenge they have plenty of time, they can even try to bring a friend to get their stuff back etc. the corrupt player runs the risk of getting attacked by literally anyone and having to fear for their life, the "non combatant" has every chance to get their stuff back.
-a moving "corrupted zone" where corrupted players can go to take their 15 minute cooldown to something like the 5-10 minute range by being in the zone... this zone will be full of other corrupted players, a strictly 1v1 PvP zone like discussed above, and other players (who are flagged for PvP when they enter the zone. (again full loot pvp) where they can try to hunt down the corrupted.. if a corrupted player is in a corrupted zone.. they probably got that goop on them, so it would encourage players to go hunt these guys down.
- a "pay for your sins" option. where you have to pay right before entering a node.. (in current economy, subject to change or could even be subject to how many people you killed) lets say like something up there but not ridicules like 5 gold to become uncorrupt by paying in to the city. this would help nodes progress with people from within or even people traveling past a node... the fee then gets directly donated in to the node... lets say you kill someone with 20 legendary wood on them.. good for you man the 5 gold fee was worth it... but lets say you killed a player with 2 common oak on them... too bad so sad... you still killed someone and they lost their materials, you still have to pay a fee to become uncorrupted.
- make a system where you can "fight off corruption" currently if you're corrupt you're literally free to non-combatants they don't even have to flag AND you get debuffs... laughable... if you don't want to make the NONCOMBATANTS flag to engage in COMBAT then there should be some kind of "kill 1 non-combatants that attacked you first to become uncorrupt per level of corruption" endgame or something similar. not fight for your life for 13 hours while trying to farm enough mobs (which at level 20 you pretty much have to go to a named location FULL OF PLAYERS) to remove corruption. and after killing 50+ mobs get attacked by a group of 5 non combatants just to be put in 300k xp debt.
you might be wondering why I'm so passionate on the corruption system... here's a background story....
over the weekend me and my friends attacked a caravan.. it was Monday at like 6 am (PST for convenience) i did the scatter shot (aoe) attack .. and as i hit it like a level like 7 bard logged in right in front of me like at the PERFECT moment... and i took half his health, said sorry he said all good and went on his way.. and we continued attacking the caravan.. this put me at level 2 corruption.. after we destroyed the caravan.. i spent TWO HOURS farming golem saplings in the lawless zone .. at roughly roughly 2.2k xp each with 3 of us in the group... my corruption didn't even drop to level 1 so i just took the L. got almost 300k xp debt and "loss of gear" .. luckily it was my friends that killed me.. over an AOE where someone logged in as i hit it. (we killed all the defenders and were just pretty much finishing off the caravan when this happened) .. we farmed the saplings for 2 hours, (after i had to fight off like 6 people attacking me on the way there btw) and when i didn't drop at all i took the L, let them kill me, and we went to carp to try to clean up the XP debt till the servers went down.. I'm down to like 130k, which is no big deal i don't care that much. but all i did those last 3 hours was think about how whoever developed the PVP/corruption system is on their last 3 braincells. and i genuinely hope that developer reads this absolute dictionary of a post and uses it as encouragement to not be the reason a other-than-that perfect product goes in the trash to any player that enjoys a PvP experience in games.
I'm sure this post will get scrutinized 3000000 times, and I'm fine with that as long as your feedback is about the actual ideas and isn't you just saying "its still in development" "its only an alpha" or "its not a complete product" because if its that incomplete and piss poorly designed, they just shouldn't have added the PvP element yet, the purpose of a forum is to list feedbacks, discussions and suggestions.. and that's all this is.
thought?
opinions?
comments?
gripes?
concerns?
agencies?
disagrees?
0
Comments
it shouldn't be enabled by default, alt + f enables/disables pvp
In persistent worlds like MMOs this snowballing gets wildly out of hand. The "losing" players can be put in a position where it just gets harder and harder for them to accomplish anything. Yes, some people are fine with that, but most aren't. Ever try playing solo on Rustoria and logging in as fresh naked at 8pm on Friday? Its doable, but pretty rough man. Most people want to feel like they are getting ahead somehow, and have a chance at success.
If every time you leave your node you lose all your mats and now have more experience debt than when you left, you are probably going to play a different game. At least if you keep half your mats, the farming run you just ran for an hour while listening to a podcast and chilling wasn't COMPLETELY worthless.
Tied into this aspect are some of the other points you made. The level 9 farmer can get ganked at any moment by a group of 8 level 50s. Sure, yeah, hes got a sword.... Ain't going to help him much. Even a level 10 guy with some gear will kick his ass 9/10 times due to the equipment spike at 10.
Some of your ideas on 1v1s and things like that, I kind of actually like. I'd definitely like to see dueling at least. However, they have stated many times that 1v1 balance is never going to be achieved in this game and they purposefully design it as a rock-paper-scissors between classes. So I doubt that this will be a thing.
The tuning on corruption right now has been stated to PURPOSEFULLY discourage PVP and ganking as that is not the focus of this part of the A2 test and they don't want to get bogged down in development time that is meant to be spent on Server testing/tweaking. Definitely complain and voice your frustration, so that when they get time to focus on this aspect they can make it work, just have some understanding about where we are in the development cycle.
I've been playing as a solo/PUG for this phase of the A2 just to see what the experience was like. I can definitely see the appeal of joining a guild and will probably be doing that at some point before launch. The content is really geared towards teams for all the high end stuff.
Can you elaborate on this one a bit?
Specifically, I'd just expect that these two hypothetical people spent the same amount of time to get where they are, so wouldn't the outcome you described actually be the correct one?
Well.. no... but I don't know if this thought process will make sense... it takes a team of 5-8 to grind a good named location at an efficient rate .. in the current state you have to grind 100+ hours to farm a full set of gear that's hopefully what you want (medium vs heavy, actual weapon you want etc) not to mention that gear will probably be mainly uncommon
All it takes is 2 farmers leveling artisan skills and between the 2 of them they combine materials and one player levels the processing/ crafting required will have enough rare or better materials ..
This is just using 2 farmers as an example.. if we balanced the numbers like I said and used 5-8 like for mob grinding.. those farmers/crafters would literally be sitting on 30+ sets of gear worth of materials.. while the 5-8 mob grinders would still be in 80% vendor gear within the same time period
In the games current state there is zero reason to kill anything. Leveling artisan skills levels your character. You can get to level 20+ without touching combat (probably 25 and probably in the main game 65) ... so why would you touch combat at all when it's literally meta to just gather materials and craft things.. there is zero reason to go out, look for teams, risk dying, etc when you can quite literally craft the same thing .. like truly outside of getting recipe drops.. which aren't rare.. farming is better in every way for progression.. the glint doesn't pay as well as the materials, the gear comes slower, the expirience rates isn't much of a difference, you can get to literal end game with BiS without ever touching combat
That's some very few viewpoints, when it comes to the 1v1 comment.. that's just what it comes down to sometimes, you won't always win and someones build will be better, I think it'll add more playability to the game because people will be more willing to go grind different accounts to have all sorts of PvP builds..
To the level 9 farmer comment - that's true but st the same time nothing is stopping them from hitting level 50 and then focusing on farming.
To the current mat system comment - see I see a problem with just being able to even farm for an hour without any fear, that's why I see full material drop as a benefit. It'll encourage running to the bank any time you get something good,
In the current state - bis gear can be crafted so that's why I see 100% full loot being viable, it's not like you get anything better from killing a world boss than you do from chopping a tree. If there was gear that was only available on a microscopic level (ie dungeons, raids, world bosses, etc) I would agree with you
Also, feel you in the rustoria comment I always have a rough first 2 days after wipe because I'm off work hours after wipe then have work the next day, but usually I can catch up by the weekend. But at the end of the day that grind makes it worth it. This game kind of lacks an endgame to grinding named locations because you're getting outclassed by farmers and there is no L9 or M2 drops from running specific content.
And maybe this comment is because of a rust background where you arguably have to work harder than in any other game to get ahead...
But... these newer games always catering to low skill/casual players is what's killing 90% of games coming out. A game that is genuinely competitive and skill levels are CLEARLY established are kind of over. .. just my 2 cents but a 50,000 player game that's insanely competitive is a lot better than a 2,000,000 player game where we have to treat everyone fairly and everyone gets the same opportunities no matter the skill level
the profit greed vs player base is what kills games in the long run, sure you'll have a higher player peak (for like a year) but your game will die 80x faster.. you can compare a game like osrs to new world in this sense... the disgusting amount of grind you have to put in to even be mediocre at RuneScape, not including the fact some drop rates are 1/50000+ is what keeps that game alive, every ounce of work you put in always shows.
Realizing you'll lose players simply because your game is "too hard" is a risk you have to take.. dark souls did pretty good for itself. Challenging games will always live longer than casual games.. me personally... once I'm bis and beat every dungeon, mastered every/ as many skills possible.. I want more challenges instead of the only playability being restarting a different build.. I understand the game is way in the early phases of alpha, but in its current state - a good gamer can do every piece of content and achieve max level and max artisan skills in the 3-400 hour range. At that point you get more playability out of a casual game like valheim
It's already designed for full loot, you can craft BiS gear and resources to do so aren't scarce to the point where it's an issue if you lose them. It wouldn't be "millions of dollars" that's a more than drastic exaggeration to change some coding in what drops and maybe increase mob drop rates slightly.
Quite literally every aspect of this game is already designed around full loot PvP to the point of where losing something doesn't hurt drastically,
- it is all recoverable through crafting/farming.
- There is no 1/50k+ drop chance ultra rare items
- vendors sell "decent" gear
- It already has a "open world PvP system"
It's crazy how when you have a REAL risk vs reward factor a lot of people change their gameplay.. I bet you'd see a lot of high mobility/tank farmers.. because... it makes sense
2, no, this isn't a short term survival game. Implementing this removes any notion of gear based progression.
3, no, there around not be any part of the game world where grouping isn't allowed.
4, drop rates are not set, and seem to be somewhat buggy, because this is an alpha. It is too early to have an opinion on this, wait until Intrepid say drops are happening as they intend.
5, no,for the same reasons as point 2.
6, still no, for the same reasons.
7, see, this isn't a game where you can expect to drop your gear on death - rather, it is a game where you put time and effort in to getting good gear, and then can only ever lose it if you decide to risk it. Also, drop rates still seem somewhat buggy.
8, if you don't want tonpay the price, dont gain corruption. If you like PvP but don't want tonpay the price, wait until 5he non-corruption PvP avenues are implemented (this is specifically why "its an alpha" is an appropriate comment). For example, when ths game is not in alpha, attacking a caravan is not a means of gaining corruption.
Really though, the game is still in early alpha.
Just a quick recap (sorry I'm still at work)
Drop rates are bugged that's been confirmed,
There is no "effort for progression" when the 3000 man 17 branch guilds are going to have everyone in BiS with about 30 hours of playtime from each member.. mark my words on that by the time phase 3 launches the guilds will already have a game plan to have everyone in BiS at their level within 15 days.. and at that point what's the point in the game? We are like 6 days in to play time and the end game gear goal/path is already figured out and a breeze if we're being honest.
To the farm around the respawn point comment, again that's where the "risk vs reward" comes in. You could spin that system 3000 different ways
Again, my corruption came from a player logging in in front of an aoe at the caravan.
My prediction under the current system and progression of the game - it will die in 6-12 months after release. because everyone will have BiS gear that can be obtained from a profession. And maybe it changes.. but unless they add dungeons or something that drop BiS instead of it being crafted... my prediction is probably accurate.
With the got awful "it's an alpha-" comment again... we all understand we quite literally paid for the ALPHA key, this is just a discussion
The grouping comment, like I said as someone who enjoys exploring a map solo it would just be a nice thing to see, not something that would be super vital to the games survivability ... and genuinely.. I don't know if you've seen these corny guilds running around trying to set up like a military system and contracting you out to play the game for their benefit.. that from some fat dude in a basement is comical, solo play sounds way more appealing.
And last thing, people aren't afraid of "paying the price" for PvP, it's the fact that there is NO GAIN from PvP
Great input! Glad you're here!
This is why it is too early to say any of these things are issues. They may be issues later on, but they may not be. In terms of how long it will take for players to get best in slot items though, we can't say anything in regards to that until we see how long it takes to level to the cap, and how.much effort is required at said cap to get thise best in slot items.
All we do know for sure ("mark my words"), is thst it will take more than 30 hours.
Yes, because the system isn't fully implemented yet.
The fully implemented system will see you needing to mark that player in order to PvP against them.
Since the current system is not the intended final version, I'm not sure why you would predict anything based on it.
You're misunderstand the 30 hour comment, what I meant is if an entire guild made each member farm for 30 hours, as some kind of initiation, guild fee, or whatever they would all have BIS after that period is over ..
And the "my prediction under the current system" just refers to the metas in game which have been announced 0 change... allowance of resources flow freely (no punishment/fear for the dude that's out farming nodes for 5 hours straight) /mob grinding being the least efficient thing to do in the game/ and large scale groups having BiS because it's craftable and their 700 farmers have more materials than the guild can even manage is the current system, not anything to do with the physical current gameplay. If that's their business model the game will fail there needs to be a more challenging end game than hit trees and mine rocks...
For example: I have a friend that's part of a larger guild on vyra, almost all of their level 10+ rangers currently have heroic tin short bows 268 phys, 179 att speed 44 dexterity .. they have 2 weekends in to the game, by the end of this weekend I'm sure they'll be at the same point with level 20 bows and just pass the level 10 ones down to the new player hitting lvl 10, this is on like 4-5 days of gameplay.. so with a 5 day a week or even 24/7 server if you don't think kitting full BiS is viable within your first couple hundred hours you're delusional on how easy this game is under a craft based system.. it seems like the only skill gap in the game is going to be what you're willing to grind your combat level to.
it genuinely doesn't matter how you spin it, if I add a BiS sword in to the game via crafting or drop or whatever, and I never lose it because there is never a situation where I'm at risk of losing it, it will never leave my possesion, once they craft one more, because gathering is absolutely free and for some reason everyone feels farmers should be protected there will be 2, and so on until there 17 million of them because BiS is farmable via resources..
Again, all this can be avoided by adding danger to getting higher rarity materials or making the best items some kind of uncraftable dungeon/raid/boss loot.
Maybe things will change, but again post is on the current state of what we've seen, changes we've heard about, and things confirmed by the staff. Maybe these issues will get fixed or they have a workaround but I'm not here for that, I'm just here to voice the concern about what is going on
Why would anyone join a guild that had this requirement?
I'm sure you are trying to make some kind of a point, but that point is coming across as "if you are a large organized guild, you may be able to be the best geared on the server".
Cool.
Drop rates are broken. This has no meaning in relation to the live game.
Correct.
But well before there are 17 million of them, there will be better items.
Todays best in slot item is tomorrows trash.
Welcome to proper MMORPG's.
1) "why would you join that guild" I don't know but people are doing it
2) this had nothing to do with drop rates they require all their new members to farm (as it's way better than farming a mob)
3) 17 million of the same or 17 million of whatever won't change if the BiS items are craftable.. and you run zero risk of losing it.
Welcome to how games without a dying economy work
Pretty sure everyone agrees with that.
You need to remember this is an MMO and not a sandbox game like RUST or ARK. The best gear is meant to take hundreds of hours to get, it's not like RUST and ARK where you can go craft 50 sets of gear and leave them in a chest for when you're raiding other players.
You mentioned you like the fact it takes a long time and a lot of effort to level up and that when you see someone max level you know they put the work in to get there. The same thing should be said with BIS gear, players that have it put in a lot of work to get it, BIS gear is all crafted and not drops from mobs.
The drop rates for materials might need tweaking, but level 1's being able to get legendary copper or types of wood is fine. You need to think of it on a long term basis and not the way it is on the Alpha test. Think about 1 or 2 years into the game when everyone is max level. A new player joins and is out levelling up and farming and gets some legendary mats, they can then go and sell those materials to more established players and make some money to help their levelling journey go a bit easier.
Again, this is an MMO and not a sandbox PVP game, it shouldn't be full loot on death. That's just not possible when it takes you hundreds of hours to get good gear, and no one wants to lose the gear they spent hundreds of hours obtaining. You shouldn't drop gear from a PVP death, having the chance to drop it when you're running around being an asshole and PK'ing new players is perfectly fine though. (it worked great in L2 which is where the system was copied from)
Now don't get me wrong I have thousands of hours in those other games and full loot drop on death works great in those games, but you can farm 50 sets of gear in a few hours in those games.
I do 100% agree the penalty is way too high right now though for PK'ing someone. I was in a party farming a couple of weekends ago, and we had to kill someone that was trying to mess with us, and it took over 30 minutes of non-stop mob farming to work off the corruption from their FIRST ever PK. There needs to be a penalty, but the penalty is way too strong right now. The mobs we were killing they were farming super easy before the PK and afterwards they could barely kill them.
1) The corpse should be lootable since always, but I think the party who got the kill and the victim should be able to loot it without becoming criminal/suspect/corrupted, everyone else should suffer something they should at least become purple
2) This is a game for five year olds, I don't think Intrepid will ever change the drop rate and I do understand your pain about this. In my opinion there should be arenas where people gamble their own gear, from 0% to 100% drop
3) I am not sure is there's any game with examples solo pvper friendly experiences, but this could be interesting if there were areas that were duel grounds and once you get attacke by one then you would become green or untouchable for everyone else until you finish your first fight. This could be fun and interesting to have in certain spots. I don't recall any game having this
4) farmers are cry babies everything, agree and about the drops this is a work in progress, for now Intrepid needs people looting stuff so stuff can be tested an every system can be tested
5) farmers are horrible players and they are a disease to be fought, they have half the blame for the bad games we have today, they re incompetent and lazy. Intrepid needs no changes in regard of the flagging system in this matter
6) no changes are necessary
7) work in progress
8) many people had many great ideas along the years here, I am not sure if Intrepid has ever planned changing their roadmap about cleansing corruption by picking flowers and killing boars. The corruption system is made from carebear spite against pks, not based on logic and not basec on fun. This system will still be bad at launch.
Intrepid should run a contest in the community so people could bring their great ideas about it, cause Intrepid's/Steven ideas about this are just boring, as far as I know Steven is against having prisons and slaves and any other fun idea
D
I could 100% agree with a not full lot on death if BiS materials were harder to obtain, that's why I suggest the flag for PvP for a chance to get better than uncommon.. I just see a game where bis takes 200ish hours dying fast
I don't think you understand how crafted best in slot items work.
You don't just go out harvesting and turn those materials in to the best items in the game.
Rather, you kill a rare spawn mob (probably a weekly spawn), and it drops a component.
This component can then be used along with other mob dropped components and harvested resources, and you can then create a best in slot item.
Obviously this isn't implemented yet, because this is an alpha.
As Noanni mentioned, the materials you're getting now aren't the only required crafting ingredients to craft the BIS gear. You still need to kill raid bosses etc to get the other high level components.
I 100% agree that they need to incentivise the PVP more though. The fact you go into insane xp debt for PVP'ing is just way too much the way it currently is. If you get killed and pushed out of your farming spot it's not even worth going back to try and win it back when you're just stacking up xp debt like crazy that's going to take hours upon hours to grind off. Not being able to PVP until you're max level is a horrible mechanic that totally negates enjoying the game from level 1.
Remove xp debt when it's a two-sided PVP death. That way, people are more likely to fight each other and have some fun. Keep the materials dropping the same as they are so you can gain something for fighting enemies and securing a kill on them.
If it's a straight-up PK then keep the corruption and stat dampening if the player that is killed is 5 levels lower than the killer. If they're within 4 levels, do something like broadcasting them on the map in <xx> range around the corrupted player until they can grind the corruption off. That way, any players that are within that range will see them pop-up on the map and can go hunt them if they want to. But it still leaves an avenue for dealing with players that just need to be killed sometimes. The stat dampening is way too strong the way it is now, you're basically guaranteed to die if you ever PK someone, either on purpose or by mistake.