"Added damage and heal dampening to experience debt." WHY? Snowball vs Comeback mechanics

novercalis

The weak keeps getting weaker.
Where is the chance for the players to make a comeback or get revenge on a surprised attack.

Guild vs Guild or Node vs Node - the side who is dying the most are just gonna get weaker and create a snowball effect.

kadimir

Really hard not to knee jerk at this, but hey - it probably won't make it into the live game, and if it does - then there will probably many more terrible design choices to talk me into not playing it anyways. Lets just do what we're suppose to be doing, giving feedback. here's my feedback - it's an awful idea and you should have spent that time developing literally anything else to test

Caeryl

It's the other side of the balance coin with corruption. They want players to fight back.

This seems a fairly effective way to discourage this 'I'll just let you kill me and come back to kill you' passivity some people have been floating. I'm sure it's overtuned just like corruption, but as a concept it's what was already promised.

kadimir

Caeryl wrote: »

It's the other side of the balance coin with corruption. They want players to fight back.

This seems a fairly effective way to discourage this 'I'll just let you kill me and come back to kill you' passivity some people have been floating. I'm sure it's overtuned just like corruption, but as a concept it's what was already promised.

Nah. If they want players to fight each other, just remove any real penalties for actually pvping. Anyone with 6 brain cells doesn't think it's worth it to fight over a grinding spot as it is. The best way to get someone out of your farming spot is actually just killing the mobs better than them until they give up or training them. Why? because flagging you risk way more than you stand to gain. Making the game worse for people who die isn't going to help them fight back against the mega guilds zerging them down - they're just going to be worse off than before the goof troop ran a train on them.

Simple as that - if they want people to actually pvp, then remove the penalties for doing it.

Caeryl

If you remove the penalties from losing at PvP then people will just run it down like lemmings. That's what happens in a lot of games, but PvP in Ashes is supposed to be meaningful, aka not fighting people just for fighting's sake.

The grind spots aren't exactly prime real estate like group bosses, dungeon encounters etc, but you can absolutely fight people over them without penalties. If they don't fight back and you don't want corruption, just stop hitting them and start one upping them.

Have your group tag mobs first. Put the onus on the other players to have to fight you out.

kadimir

Caeryl wrote: »

If you remove the penalties from losing at PvP then people will just run it down like lemmings. That's what happens in a lot of games, but PvP in Ashes is supposed to be meaningful, aka not fighting people just for fighting's sake.

Cut the crap dude, what kind of meaningful pvp do you think it's going to be getting zerged down by mega guilds? The reality you live in doesnt exist. And no, in TERA you could pvp with no consequence at all - only caveat was that if you killed lowbies you'd be stuck flagged for PVP until it wore off. Make it so you're not punished for trying to fight other players - it's fine to keep corruption but it should only apply killing someone like 10 levels below you.

bloodprophet

32:30 - 40:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYXJ4bTOLk

Failure should hurt. The point is so people can't just keep mindlessly running in and face rolling forever with zero consequences.

wakkytabbaky

current dampening is 0.2% per 1% of xp debt, thats 5 pvp deaths before you even hit 1% dampening, people are crying over a system which is doing like nothing to hamper them atm , just wait till they up it to a more punishing level

Nerror

This was always planned. Now we get to test it. Let's do that first.

Caeryl

kadimir wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

If you remove the penalties from losing at PvP then people will just run it down like lemmings. That's what happens in a lot of games, but PvP in Ashes is supposed to be meaningful, aka not fighting people just for fighting's sake.

Cut the crap dude, what kind of meaningful pvp do you think it's going to be getting zerged down by mega guilds? The reality you live in doesnt exist. And no, in TERA you could pvp with no consequence at all - only caveat was that if you killed lowbies you'd be stuck flagged for PVP until it wore off. Make it so you're not punished for trying to fight other players - it's fine to keep corruption but it should only apply killing someone like 10 levels below you.

Mega guilds are a different topic than death penalty mechanics.

wakkytabbaky wrote: »

current dampening is 0.2% per 1% of xp debt, thats 5 pvp deaths before you even hit 1% dampening, people are crying over a system which is doing like nothing to hamper them atm , just wait till they up it to a more punishing level

See above. They're minor deterrents right now, and they were already planned to exist from the get-go. It's not a surprise to anyone that was keeping track of the game for a while.

Imnotkio

It's simple



An open-world pvp game that doesn't discourage people from killing themselves to punish others (karma bombing, mob training) is a grief fest. With the current design if you die 10 times in PVP you get 2% stat dampening which is nothing. If you're dying 10 times and the enemy 0, you already lost mate, it's the game telling you to back down. If you died 10 times but the enemy also died 10 times, you're still even on stat dampening and you're not at a disadvantage

Black desert online tried an open-world PVP with low death penalties and the game is famously known for the karma bombing.

Hutchy1989

This was always going to be a mechanic. Otherwise xp debt is meaningless once you hit max level.