Health Display Info In PvP [Feedback]

I understand the purpose of not showing an enemy players exact health being so that you more or less cant plan or prevent a last hit on an opponent accurately

But I and my guildies and many PvP oriented acquaintances have pretty much unanimously agreed that the current "quartered" HP feels pretty awful when engaging in PvP. This isnt to say that the whole idea should be scrapped. Steven even mentioned the possibility of using smaller increments to show health, which I STRONGLY encourage the team to implement.

Whether it be going to increments of 8ths, 12ths. Or even a mix where the top 25% is in 16ths, then each following 25% becomes larger increments to make it more difficult to determine how much health is remaining on a player as they reach lower health. Any of these would likely feel far better than the current display of player health in PvP. So at the very least I would ask to test these.

And I would also say that most high end PvP is based around actions determined by an enemies health. Especially in large team fights when deciding to swap targets and making those callouts. As weird of a description for this as it is, it almost felt "clunky" doing callouts with the current quartered health bar info.

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Comments

bloodprophet

I liked the decaying feature that had years ago.
I would like to see it go back to that.

Dolyem

Made a visual for some other options for the devs to take a look at for HP display. 4 25% bars still feel pretty terrible to me. Personally I think something more like B, C, or D would feel better. But leaving that final 25% to prevent timing hits to grief players fighting NPCs is still a good idea.

Imnotkio

My biggest issue with the health bar display is how unresponsive it feels. You can do a big hit into the person and you have 0 feedback response from their hp bar, which doesn't feel great.

Usually in other games, you do a big hit or you do constant damage and you have instant feedback from the enemies' hp bar.

This HP bar was implemented so people wouldn't know if they were about to kill a person or not, and therefore risk corruption. I disagree with this in the first place. To me, if you hit a player, and you contribute to his death, you should receive a portion of corruption. It doesn't need to be as much as the killing blow, but you shouldn't walk away scot-free because a mob or someone else happened to give the last hit.

But there is a lot that I think should be changed about the corruption system.

Overall, if they keep this idea of fractioned health bars, I would hope they implement some visual feedback related to the damage you do. For instance the HP bar could shake when you hit the enemy, and the intensity of the shake be proportional to how much damage you did.

Dolyem

Imnotkio wrote: »

My biggest issue with the health bar display is how unresponsive it feels. You can do a big hit into the person and you have 0 feedback response from their hp bar, which doesn't feel great.

Usually in other games, you do a big hit or you do constant damage and you have instant feedback from the enemies' hp bar.

This HP bar was implemented so people wouldn't know if they were about to kill a person or not, and therefore risk corruption. I disagree with this in the first place. To me, if you hit a player, and you contribute to his death, you should receive a portion of corruption. It doesn't need to be as much as the killing blow, but you shouldn't walk away scot-free because a mob or someone else happened to give the last hit.

But there is a lot that I think should be changed about the corruption system.

Overall, if they keep this idea of fractioned health bars, I would hope they implement some visual feedback related to the damage you do. For instance the HP bar could shake when you hit the enemy, and the intensity of the shake be proportional to how much damage you did.

in regards to the " if you hit a player, and you contribute to his death, you should receive a portion of corruption." the main issue with this is players (me included) would immediately pull more mobs and die on purpose so either my party can then kill that person freely and gain max rewards, or I could run them down myself and even utilize the bounty system to hunt them efficiently. But this isnt about corruption. This is about making the HP Display actually feel good in PvP. As you said, with 4 25% bars it doesnt feel responsive at all in balanced fights.

Imnotkio

Dolyem wrote: »

in regards to the " if you hit a player, and you contribute to his death, you should receive a portion of corruption." the main issue with this is players (me included) would immediately pull more mobs and die on purpose so either my party can then kill that person freely and gain max rewards, or I could run them down myself and even utilize the bounty system to hunt them efficiently.

Yes because corruption is busted. It's a system intended to mitigate grief, so getting corrupted and losing gear for killing 1 person makes no sense. With a properly designed corruption system where you have room for PVP, all you'd be doing is killing yourself and getting death penalties. You have no reason to be sure with your death the guy will get corrupted, so makes no sense to reverse grief as you'd probably lose more than the other person. Your more efficient choice would join your party and just kill that guy as you would get the same benefits of killing the guy without the punishment of dying.

And at the end of the day, if the guy is actively attacking a person, he knows the risks of acquiring corruption and going over the red threshold or not.

Dolyem

Imnotkio wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

in regards to the " if you hit a player, and you contribute to his death, you should receive a portion of corruption." the main issue with this is players (me included) would immediately pull more mobs and die on purpose so either my party can then kill that person freely and gain max rewards, or I could run them down myself and even utilize the bounty system to hunt them efficiently.

Yes because corruption is busted. It's a system intended to mitigate grief, so getting corrupted and losing gear for killing 1 person makes no sense. With a properly designed corruption system where you have room for PVP, all you'd be doing is killing yourself and getting death penalties. You have no reason to be sure with your death the guy will get corrupted, so makes no sense to reverse grief as you'd probably lose more than the other person. Your more efficient choice would join your party and just kill that guy as you would get the same benefits of killing the guy without the punishment of dying.

And at the end of the day, if the guy is actively attacking a person, he knows the risks of acquiring corruption and going over the red threshold or not.

I agree that corruption should focus on griefing and that you shouldnt lose gear after killing a single person. I have argued on here for years that corruption punishments should be proportionate to the crime, and that should be weighed on what can be considered griefing. So high quantity of corrupted kills within a short amount of time repeated against the same player would justify more severe punishments due to what could be considered camping, as opposed to killing someone a few times because of competition for resources which would be more or less a slap on the wrist with punishments due to it not really being griefing.

Even then though, with non-combatants being planned to have CC-immunity to other players attacking them and PK Value persisting after deaths, I dont believe hitting someone and them dying to NPCs should grant corruption. At least not with the way HP is currently displayed.

Also with the 4x penalty youd pretty much be guaranteed your resources back and potentially far more. Itd definitely depend on what resources I have and if I have friends nearby, but I would purposely cause corruption regardless in that scenario with the way it is currently implemented.

CROW3

Idk… I’ve never understood why the health bar needs to be abstracted in this way. It doesn’t make pvp any more fun, nor does it effectively protect players as they get close to death or the attacker gets close to corruption.

It’s seems obtuse for the sake of being obtuse and packaged as ‘fog of war.’ 😕

Dolyem

CROW3 wrote: »

Idk… I’ve never understood why the health bar needs to be abstracted in this way. It doesn’t make pvp any more fun, nor does it effectively protect players as they get close to death or the attacker gets close to corruption.

It’s seems obtuse for the sake of being obtuse and packaged as ‘fog of war.’ 😕

I agree. But I do see the benefit at least for not being able to accurately stop oneself from last hitting someone to avoid corruption in the current design. But I figured I would propose some sort of middle ground if intrepid insists that this sort of misdirection for HP display is really necessary. If it was entirely up to me I would get rid of the concept entirely and stick with true HP value display

Veeshan

With the general skill tree they could add a skill line that increases the amount of HP bar increments there are like no 50% bar is base and each point reduces the bar by 10% increments at max level it goes to like 10 bars 10% or something

CROW3

I like your thinking, but I think any skill that unveils more about an enemies health bar is going to be a must have for everyone as a sunk baseline.

So why not just reveal it from the get go?

I’d rather give players more tools to do, mitigate, avoid, heal, and escape damage than by mystifying how that damage is measured.

Drazard

yeah the HP bar thing has always seemed weird. i dont think the tradeoff of haivng the combat feel terrible is worth it to hide the exact HP of an opponent

Dolyem

Another idea.

Smaashley

I think that it doesn't make sens to segment HP bars at all. If we PvP, we will always target the lowest HP player (that isn't near a cleric of course

). So doesn't matter how it is segmented if we can see the value some way.

The two viable options are to remove completely HP bars or show full HP values. I prefer Intrepid to give us tools to counter damage instead of modifying how the values are displayed as @CROW3 said.

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