Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
The pros and cons of AFK EXP: Why I think AFK experience should not be considered exploitative
Fippy
Member, Alpha Two
There seem to be two ways to gain AFK experience: Fishing, and what I'll call "Event Farming." TL;DR at the end.
Now fishing has the limitation of your rod eventually breaking, and the EXP gain being pretty dang small. I've heard there are locations where the rod breaking is not currently working, and the exp gain is indefinite, and I want to be clear that is NOT what I'm talking about. AFK fishing seems like a perfectly reasonable way to fill your time when you need to AFK and make the kids dinner (WTF happened, we're all old now), or want to be in game socializing and progressing our characters, but we're just to exhausted from grinding all day (why do my hands hurt so much after jamming buttons for 6 hours??) And besides, is fishing in real life really anything more than being AFK anyway? (Go off, fisherman). To summarize, AFK Fishing is amazing, and not exploitative to my mind.
About "Event Farming" ... This is a bit more nuanced. For instance, Titan's Ring... Given the amount of GM presence at this event, I think the devs are WELL aware that things are a bit off here. This event is easily farmable in part because of how many players tend to be present. When there's 50 people chilling in one spot, I don't care how many minotaurs you throw at them, there's a really good chance that a level 1 isn't going to get hit by one, and in 15 minutes, they will have 11,000 experience.
It is perfectly possible right now to get your level 1 character to this event, AFK for an hour, and gain quite a few levels. THIS aspect I believe is exploitative, IF the player is actually AFK. However, we all have real lives, and if I could be grinding out EXP at some dungeon, I wouldn't be at an event 7 levels under me gaining incredibly slow experience. The fact that I can set a timer, get the kids homework done, come back and kill a few minotaurs, and work off the experience debt from the last dungeon farms final failure... it allows me to engage with the game in a low stakes, relaxing way. A dare I say... casual way (yuck).
Event farming (not AFK farming) fits right there in the risk/reward calculation Steven talks about all the time. It's extremely low risk, although people (trolls) love bringing over random 3 star elites to eat people, but it's also low reward. Sure, at lower levels, it seem exploitative, but at higher levels? The exp gain is SO minimal and SO slow. Also, weirdly this particular event ends up being pretty social, since people tend to stay there for a while, and come back between dungeon farms.
So how to prevent exploiting something that should be mostly allowable?
1) Right now, events are listed as their event level. The Titans Ring one is level 11. I would suggest lower level limits, but NOT upper level limits. Instead of the event being level 11, maybe 6-11. Make it clear that a level 5 standing around doing nothing will not get experience there, but any higher level player should still gain the reward because the exp gain itself becomes smaller and smaller as a player levels up anyway. That serves as it's own deterrent. You're not gonna AFK to 50 at a level 11 event.
This could also be implemented for events like Firebrand... Conceivably, a level 15 could participate from a distance plinking away with spells or arrows, and still feel like they're helping to take down a dragon, and still risking death, but a level 1 standing at the edge of the event circle should obviously not gain EXP for just being close to other people killing a dragon.
2) Some kind of AFK check. Did a player heal or do damage during the event? Speaking of the Titan's Ring, Perhaps the Minotaur Stream Weavers summon a big tidal wave that pushes all the AFK players off of the cliffs and into the center. It won't kill them, but it will prevent them from being AFK for hours with almost no risk of being caught in the crossfire. Other events can have similar. When the spider outbreaks occur, a DoT that is applied to characters until they move? However, I really don't want to have to break the immersion to click "join" during every event if possible.
In any case, as higher and higher level events are implemented, lower and lower level characters WILL start using them to level instead of engaging with the game world, and I I REALLY don't want to see the answer to be to just reduce event EXP and glint reward to be the deterrent.
TL;DR
Fishing is a great way to AFK exp. It feels proper.
Event Farming can be problematic, however a few simple fixes can prevent abuse:
- Put limits on lower level players from automatically being included.
- Don't put an upper level limit.
- Make some kind of AFK check that is NOT a "click to join"
Please let appropriate level people engage with events, even if that means we're AFK between event occurrences. As long as people are coming back for the event to gain the reward, the AFK in between is part of a risk/reward calculation.
Now fishing has the limitation of your rod eventually breaking, and the EXP gain being pretty dang small. I've heard there are locations where the rod breaking is not currently working, and the exp gain is indefinite, and I want to be clear that is NOT what I'm talking about. AFK fishing seems like a perfectly reasonable way to fill your time when you need to AFK and make the kids dinner (WTF happened, we're all old now), or want to be in game socializing and progressing our characters, but we're just to exhausted from grinding all day (why do my hands hurt so much after jamming buttons for 6 hours??) And besides, is fishing in real life really anything more than being AFK anyway? (Go off, fisherman). To summarize, AFK Fishing is amazing, and not exploitative to my mind.
About "Event Farming" ... This is a bit more nuanced. For instance, Titan's Ring... Given the amount of GM presence at this event, I think the devs are WELL aware that things are a bit off here. This event is easily farmable in part because of how many players tend to be present. When there's 50 people chilling in one spot, I don't care how many minotaurs you throw at them, there's a really good chance that a level 1 isn't going to get hit by one, and in 15 minutes, they will have 11,000 experience.
It is perfectly possible right now to get your level 1 character to this event, AFK for an hour, and gain quite a few levels. THIS aspect I believe is exploitative, IF the player is actually AFK. However, we all have real lives, and if I could be grinding out EXP at some dungeon, I wouldn't be at an event 7 levels under me gaining incredibly slow experience. The fact that I can set a timer, get the kids homework done, come back and kill a few minotaurs, and work off the experience debt from the last dungeon farms final failure... it allows me to engage with the game in a low stakes, relaxing way. A dare I say... casual way (yuck).
Event farming (not AFK farming) fits right there in the risk/reward calculation Steven talks about all the time. It's extremely low risk, although people (trolls) love bringing over random 3 star elites to eat people, but it's also low reward. Sure, at lower levels, it seem exploitative, but at higher levels? The exp gain is SO minimal and SO slow. Also, weirdly this particular event ends up being pretty social, since people tend to stay there for a while, and come back between dungeon farms.
So how to prevent exploiting something that should be mostly allowable?
1) Right now, events are listed as their event level. The Titans Ring one is level 11. I would suggest lower level limits, but NOT upper level limits. Instead of the event being level 11, maybe 6-11. Make it clear that a level 5 standing around doing nothing will not get experience there, but any higher level player should still gain the reward because the exp gain itself becomes smaller and smaller as a player levels up anyway. That serves as it's own deterrent. You're not gonna AFK to 50 at a level 11 event.
This could also be implemented for events like Firebrand... Conceivably, a level 15 could participate from a distance plinking away with spells or arrows, and still feel like they're helping to take down a dragon, and still risking death, but a level 1 standing at the edge of the event circle should obviously not gain EXP for just being close to other people killing a dragon.
2) Some kind of AFK check. Did a player heal or do damage during the event? Speaking of the Titan's Ring, Perhaps the Minotaur Stream Weavers summon a big tidal wave that pushes all the AFK players off of the cliffs and into the center. It won't kill them, but it will prevent them from being AFK for hours with almost no risk of being caught in the crossfire. Other events can have similar. When the spider outbreaks occur, a DoT that is applied to characters until they move? However, I really don't want to have to break the immersion to click "join" during every event if possible.
In any case, as higher and higher level events are implemented, lower and lower level characters WILL start using them to level instead of engaging with the game world, and I I REALLY don't want to see the answer to be to just reduce event EXP and glint reward to be the deterrent.
TL;DR
Fishing is a great way to AFK exp. It feels proper.
Event Farming can be problematic, however a few simple fixes can prevent abuse:
- Put limits on lower level players from automatically being included.
- Don't put an upper level limit.
- Make some kind of AFK check that is NOT a "click to join"
Please let appropriate level people engage with events, even if that means we're AFK between event occurrences. As long as people are coming back for the event to gain the reward, the AFK in between is part of a risk/reward calculation.
0
Comments
and don't say you can get PK'd because if someone pk's you fishing, they go red and lose more than you do
PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
Big Influence: SNES Fighting games / Starcraft / Diablo II / Smite
Which is why specifically I'm calling for AFK checks for events. Are we *actually* AFK during the event, or just AFK in between? I don't see a problem with the latter, personally. As to fishing, do you see the AFK experience gain being problematic enough to need changed? I wonder how long a character would need to fish to make max level...
So to clarify, you don't feel like there is a functional difference between botting and going AFK between event cycles?
There won't be AFK fishing.[5]
Glory to Arioch
Glory to Winsted
For my mana addicted brothers:
For the Glory of Quel'Thalas