PvP Flagging mechanics

BarnabasOG

After experiencing PvP flagging this past weekend, I wanted to share some constructive feedback.

I understand that this is an Alpha build and everything is still a work in progress, but here are my observations and suggestions based on the past few weekends:

Corpse Looting Mechanics
While I appreciate the recent changes to corpse looting, I believe these mechanics could be expanded further. Specifically:

Players who loot another player’s corpse should remain flagged for PvP longer than the current duration.
Any individual who steals items from another player should be immediately flagged as a red combatant (active PvP status).
This would align with the risk-reward model that seems to be at the core of the game's philosophy. Engaging in looting should carry tangible consequences.

Accountability for Assisting Offenders
I witnessed scenarios where players, such as healers or supporters, assisted offenders in combat. If these players are aiding or abetting looters or red combatants, they should also be subject to PvP flagging. This would ensure accountability for those who actively support such actions.

The current system sometimes penalizes players for defending themselves against accomplices, potentially resulting in corruption. This feels counterintuitive to the spirit of risk and reward.

Overall, I am really enjoying the direction the game is taking. These additional flagging or penalty mechanics could further reinforce the developers’ goals of balancing risk, reward, and accountability. Ensuring that looters and their accomplices are fair targets would create a more immersive and fair PvP experience.

kadimir

In it's current stage of the game, going red for looting a couple glint and some logs with a chance of dropping multiple pieces of gear is absolutely terrible. Also you can't heal a flagged player without flagging, source: I'm a cleric.

Based on your post, it doesn't sound like you experienced pvp flagging, you experienced getting your body looted and dying for trying to attack the person who looted you.

here are my *ACTUAL* flagging experiences so far.

1.) tickling people with a bow to see if they want to square up, followed by them running as fast as they can.

2.) there was a group outside of seph, I figured i'd try to bait 1 or 2 of them into pvp by looting a corpse.

they proceeded to 6v1 me, I got exp debt.

I come back and say come on, anyone wanna 1v1?

a fighter comes out, I proceed to start 1v1'ing, 2nd player starts coming in as he's looking like he's going to die. I kill the fighter and start lighting the ranger up, he gets to about 10% and abuses one of the bugs to unflag midnight(i think it's from dropping group or guild?) hoping to bait me into going red. - I stop attacking. Then they all flag up again, this time one dude goes red, I'm assuming for killing my mount(which I don't agree with FWIW)

As I run back now assuming I can atleast attack that dude who went red, I stroll up to see they just dropped group, let the guy kill him, and then gave him his stuff back so he was back to white, no risk.

My friend showed up, figured we'd try to 2vwhatever for fun while we were waiting for a group to form. We approached only to find that he can't even attack half of the targets because they were same node. He starts heading away only to get attacked by a lvl 25 mage as lvl 17 - I roll around the corner and flag to heal him but I'm unable to and he dies, I head towards the emberspring where he is ressing up, he sleeps me, kills the ranger again, and then kills me. getting ~19k exp debt everytime a lvl 25 with over double your hp that can kill you in 3 globals and despite my best efforts, it's hard to convince anyone to pvp.

later that day I had a bad tank pull way too much, then LOS me - so we wiped, then wanted to run through the ruins and get hit by 1-2 mobs. instead of stoppping and fighting the mobs he paused, the bard and I got aggro for trying to heal him, so he just kept running killing us again. I dropped group because he was trash, ran to get my corpse only to catch him purple right where my corpse was - and low and behold, I'm not able to even PK the guy because he was a member of my node.


How's that for "PvP flagging experience", Only way I was able to get anyone in engage in pvp was making sure it was suicide for me to even try, and the people that I really wanted to kill I couldnt - while lvl 25's you stand no chance against can kill you for full exp penalty.

BarnabasOG

I’ve encountered situations around HHM where people looted my corpse, briefly turning purple. If I engaged and killed one of them, I would turn red.

In one instance, a cleric was actively healing the offender but didn’t turn purple at all. Despite their involvement, I ended up flagged as red for defending myself.

To clarify, I’m not focused on the current state of the game since this is still Alpha. My point is more about the direction of the system. While losing a few logs or miscellaneous materials may not feel significant, imagine if the stolen items were epic or legendary resources that had taken an enormous amount of time to farm. That would change the perspective considerably, especially for players who value those resources for crafting or progression.

It seems like you’re discussing PvP engagement for the sake of combat, but that’s not the angle I’m referring to. This is more about accountability within the risk-reward framework. A crime—such as stealing—should have meaningful consequences. I’m not suggesting that looters automatically gain corruption, but the act of theft should carry greater weight and consequences to reflect the effort and value involved.

Veeshan

imo if a group leader flags up the entire party should get flagged or atleast option for it, solves the issue of healer trying to heal people that become flagged and they forget to flkag and all the fanafal

Pham

BarnabasOG wrote: »

I’ve encountered situations around HHM where people looted my corpse, briefly turning purple. If I engaged and killed one of them, I would turn red.

In one instance, a cleric was actively healing the offender but didn’t turn purple at all. Despite their involvement, I ended up flagged as red for defending myself.

To clarify, I’m not focused on the current state of the game since this is still Alpha. My point is more about the direction of the system. While losing a few logs or miscellaneous materials may not feel significant, imagine if the stolen items were epic or legendary resources that had taken an enormous amount of time to farm. That would change the perspective considerably, especially for players who value those resources for crafting or progression.

It seems like you’re discussing PvP engagement for the sake of combat, but that’s not the angle I’m referring to. This is more about accountability within the risk-reward framework. A crime—such as stealing—should have meaningful consequences. I’m not suggesting that looters automatically gain corruption, but the act of theft should carry greater weight and consequences to reflect the effort and value involved.

If you killed someone who was purple and you turned red as a result that is a bug. Please report it.
Source: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging#/media/File:pvp_flagging_diagram.png

BarnabasOG

I did thank you as I thought that was not the intended mechanism. I really wanted to speak to the end vision of the flagging system. I've been an MMO enthusiast since the late 90s and seen a lot of these system get bypassed or exploited and I have very high hopes for AoC.

To tie back to what Steven had said in a number of his videos risk vs reward and making sure player decisions have impact.

@Veeshan I can see a prompt for group members to say opt out of the group if another party member engages in pvp but it seems they could still heal ungrouped so I think at a fundamental level it has to be any engagement with the combatant in an effort to support them.
Some mechanic like that might help.