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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Max Gear Rarity For Any Level: Future Concern
Dolyem
Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
So as it currently is in alpha 2, you can craft any gear as a legendary item regardless of that gears level requirement, as long as you have equal rarity materials/gear that boosts your quality of what you craft. (I am aware that quality boosts are being adjusted)
The issue that I predict with this is that if this remains the way it is, players will build "hand-me-down" Maxxed out Legendary gear for each level bracket to rush content exponentially faster than intended for a fresh character. Upgrading to their next 10 level bracket Legendary and passing it on.
Whether or not this would be intended is up in the air. However, to me it not only potentially dumbs down leveling alt characters, It also drastically reduces how special and satisfying high tier rarity items feel upon acquiring them.
What would I suggest to deter this? Lock rarity to level brackets. This can apply to both Adventuring and Artisan Level as far as being able to acquire the rarity of materials, craft them, and actually use the gear.
Level 1-9 (Novice) - Common and Uncommon Materials/Gear
Level 10-19 (Apprentice) - Common, Uncommon, and Rare Materials/Gear
Level 20-29 (Journeyman) - Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Heroic Materials/Gear
Level 30-39 (Master) - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Heroic, and Epic Materials/Gear
Level 40-50 (Grandmaster) - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Heroic, Epic, and Legendary Materials/Gear
Level 50 - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Heroic, Epic, Legendary, and Relic/Artifact Materials/Gear
This would keep the correlating level brackets from being over-tuned by limiting the power scaling of items you can provide your alt characters, but still keeping a sense of progression (and even potentially improving this sense of progression) every 10th level bracket.
The issue that I predict with this is that if this remains the way it is, players will build "hand-me-down" Maxxed out Legendary gear for each level bracket to rush content exponentially faster than intended for a fresh character. Upgrading to their next 10 level bracket Legendary and passing it on.
Whether or not this would be intended is up in the air. However, to me it not only potentially dumbs down leveling alt characters, It also drastically reduces how special and satisfying high tier rarity items feel upon acquiring them.
What would I suggest to deter this? Lock rarity to level brackets. This can apply to both Adventuring and Artisan Level as far as being able to acquire the rarity of materials, craft them, and actually use the gear.
Level 1-9 (Novice) - Common and Uncommon Materials/Gear
Level 10-19 (Apprentice) - Common, Uncommon, and Rare Materials/Gear
Level 20-29 (Journeyman) - Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Heroic Materials/Gear
Level 30-39 (Master) - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Heroic, and Epic Materials/Gear
Level 40-50 (Grandmaster) - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Heroic, Epic, and Legendary Materials/Gear
Level 50 - Common, Uncommon, Rare, Heroic, Epic, Legendary, and Relic/Artifact Materials/Gear
This would keep the correlating level brackets from being over-tuned by limiting the power scaling of items you can provide your alt characters, but still keeping a sense of progression (and even potentially improving this sense of progression) every 10th level bracket.
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Comments
As for the potential abundance of this practice - this can be solved in other ways. Maybe you need to reuse some legendary mats after a certain number of gear repairs, so the hand-me-down can't really stay viable for too long. Or the costs of repairs increase with time, so it's simply not beneficial to keep using an old item like that.
Another solution could just be a rarer distribution of high rarity mats across those lvl brackets. It kinda already this way, cause higher tiers of artisan gear will give you better chances at getting rarer mats. So this could just be taken one step forward by making materials themselves skew towards more common rarities. This, of course, brings up the possibility of "top lvl artisan farms lowbie mats and only gets legendaries", but that's a whole other discussion about cross-lvl artisanry/looting, and even then Intrepid could just add another stipulation of "high lvl artisans don't benefit from rarity boosts when gathering lowbie mats" or smth.
Also, in my personal experience, it always felt cool when I got rare hand-me-downs from highbie friends or guildmates in L2. L2's version of this was high lvls of OE on an item, but the general point is the same - it would let you powerlvl. And using this rare powerful weapon would still feel just as cool as it would were I to get it on my own.
In any game someone decks out and alt to level quicker literally who cared? In l2 I leveled a few characters just to reuse the gear I'd invested into just to be able to invest in the next set.
1.) Leveling an alt should always be easier, and is due to a variety of factors including access to better gear
2.) How would grinding legendary gear trivialize itself? Do you think the grind gets easier? Grinding a full set of legendary gear will take a lot of time commitment, far longer than it takes to outlevel that bracket.
You're listing problems nobody actually has and then trying to fix them.
PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
Big Influence: SNES Fighting games / Starcraft / Diablo II / Smite
I believe many of your concerns will resolve once the economy establishes itself and stabilizes. Players will likely be able to buy and sell gear across all tiers and levels, providing a clear benchmark for what is required to stay competitive with the average player.
Additionally, I anticipate that upkeep costs will play a significant role in balance. While I haven’t yet needed to repair the full legendary set I earned last week, I suspect that when the time comes, the expense will be substantial.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Youre not wrong, this is just my own suggestion. Whatever implementation is viable is based on whatever the intention of Intrepid is regarding alts. Its unclear if they want alts to have nearly the same difficulty as a fresh account, or to be able to be outfitted and boosted far quicker. Though from what I have seen based on their aversion to letting low levels join higher level groups to farm xp, and based on their efforts to maintain a robust level of difficulty in PVE content from the latest patch, I would guess they lean more towards not promoting alt boosting. But thats just speculation on my part.
Aside from alt boosting, its just my own opinion that gear rarity shouldnt be diminished by handing a fresh character something considered Legendary. It gives WoW "CHAMPION!" vibes, where everyone is the main character of the universe. But again, just an opinion.
TLDR: Neither of us are wrong here, it just depends on the direction Intrepid wants to go when it comes to leveling alts.
Leveling an alt is usually easier, but to what degree of ease that should be is yet to be determined for ashes, hence my suggestion. Intrepid could very well intend for alts to be easy to boost. But if not, then they can put my suggestion to use, making managing and leveling alts more of a challenge.
Grinding Legendary gear so far is simply RNG. I have gathered quite a bit on my own. And time commitment is pretty trivial when it comes to acquiring a set of leveling gear as a max level character. Just saving materials on the way to max level would likely outfit an alt with exponentially better gear as it currently is. But again, it comes down to what Intrepids intent with alts is. If they want players to boost alts much more quickly than a fresh account, then you are correct. If they want leveling an alt to be similar to a fresh player leveling, then my suggestion is viable.
Its not really a competitive issue that I am pointing out here, though that is another good point. My suggestion would narrow the gap in gear differences at low level, keeping PvP from getting too lopsided in lower level confrontations.
The main issue I am addressing is alt boosting. And while you are correct about upkeep being a factor, if its anything like it currently is, obtaining low level legendary materials isn't exactly the hardest thing to do. It takes time sure, but with so many people gathering in the world you'd have a legendary resource market to access, even if they decrease the drop rate of high end tier materials this will be a thing. Especially if tier 1 legendary resources are only applicable to tier 1 gear. Now if they required all tier legendary materials to upkeep level 50 legendary gear, that could definitely make players less inclined to waste legendary materials on leveling gear for alts.
I'm pretty sure the idea was the have a system like lineage II, where materials are used all the way up the chain, thus low level materials would be a part of high level crafting. If that's the case, using low level materials on legendaries would not be the most ideal situation while leveling your main. Again, not a problem that needs solved.
PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
Big Influence: SNES Fighting games / Starcraft / Diablo II / Smite
Players are still going to mindlessly grind to the level cap ... even though most have self-awareness to know that's not the purpose of Alpha-2.
So, just let them do it.
As Vhaeyne said, it's going to be a very long time before the economy is right-sized. Might not be until Beta when we experience the devs' intentions on balance.
Bottom Line: This is the game's testing phase ... and right now there are placeholders to ensure the devs are getting the data they need (including being able to craft legendary gear at low levels).
Botters...gold farmers.... players ability to become independent in crafting via alts...corrupt throwaway alts... those are a few things to contend with regarding the ability to easily boost alts.
Oh this isnt a concern for alpha, this is entirely for full release, and it simply depends on Intrepids intent. If they want players to be able to boost alts then so be it. If they dont, this suggestion is for them.
Also made me think about the adjacent approach of allowing crafters to disassemble legendary items for artisanry experience and higher-level rare resources. Would solve the issue of infinite low-level weapons floating in the economy, if the reward for disassembling is high enough. The XP reward would have to be finetuned to be high enough that it's worth destroying the item, but low enough that it doesn't turn into an exploit to turn everyone into a crafting expert without putting in the work. Perhaps only allow it to account for 20% of the XP for every crafting level or something.
Another alternative would just be to make the low-level legendary items' crafting recipes include some of the same rare resource costs as those for a max-level legendary item's recipe.
If a level 20 legendary sword requires 2 garnets, and a level 50 legendary sword requires a 5 garnets and a ruby - then no one's going to be crafting level 20 legendary swords en masse. Idk if that makes low-level crafting less fun because you feel more limited. Perhaps the other solutions are better.
If all repairs require materials equal in type and rarity that were used to craft the item, a few deaths for a character decked out in all legendary items could cost them a huge amount of very hard to get materials.
A character in all legendary gear is less likely to die in PvE at least, so that balances it out a bit, but it can quickly become expensive AF in PvP to be wearing all legendary all the time.
If gear can be repaired easily with lower tier materials, then yeah, eventually everyone who aren't very casual will be having legendary sets for all tiers probably.
Open world PvP will always be "lopsided".
Numbers win.
If you want a balanced and sterilized PvP environment then you want a Moba or fighting game. Maybe arena in ashes.
Even in duals rock paper scissors is intended design for ashes.
Just imagine someone in full Lego as 1.5-2 players instead of one. The odds are you are not going to get 1v1ed anyway.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
botters --
doesn't matter what they are wearing, they should and will be banned - this problem is completely independent of gearing.
gold farmers --
with the item ID tracking, if they see a legendary item that gets passed around like a kardashian at a diddy party it would be the easiest monday afternoon for the GMs to ban every account associated with it.
players becoming independent in crafting via alts --
this would not only be INSANELY cost and time intensive, but if anything - that's just an amazing but totally ineffective feat. The amount of progress on their main gearing by sticking to 1 gather/craft and finding a guild crafter would save countless hours. This is no way is a problem, and is insanely inefficient. Not sure why you want to stop this, outside of the fact that someone can put in more work and have more rewards than you.
corrupt thowaway alts --
who's problem is this? someone wants to play the villan and put in double the work to have another character to go cause some ruckus in a FFA PvX game? More free legendary gear when they die. If you have a problem with this, kindly find one of the many PvE games and play it.
easily boosting alts --
again, someone puts in the work and prepares to make leveling another character easier - absolutely nobody's problem. If you're lucky they'll group with you while leveling and you'll get to have a productive session. Again, seems like you have a problem that people can put in more work and get more rewards than you... pattern here for sure.
Sorry I didn't respond right away, I hope you didn't get the false sense of security thinking that you actually came away looking correct for a few days.
PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
Big Influence: SNES Fighting games / Starcraft / Diablo II / Smite
What is it with fresh accounts always acting hostile on these forums?
Botters- yes they get banned, if alts are easily leveled they just make new accounts and level up fast.
Gold farmers- same thing here. If you offer any pathway to more easily boost alts, it will be the same for creating a new account. You could question someone who made the original item, but if that original account that just makes the items has no involvement in the actual TOS infringements you can't really fault them.
Player account crafting independece- this is only difficult if boosting alts is hard. Otherwise it's as simple as shuffling between accounts via gathering on your main characters, while funneling everything to the correlating alts for processing. I'm already planning this if it's viable enough to boost alts with legendary hand me downs (including low level crafting gear for xp bonuses to boost crafts)
Corrupt throwaway alts- you misunderstand, the legendary boosting gear would only be utilized to level these characters. Then stowed for the next corrupted character while outfitting throwaway gear and causing mayhem. You're not supposed to be able to play a villain in any way shape or form. You're supposed to be punished accordingly for how much corruption you gain, whether that be through death or through time spent working it off. "Playing the villain" as a corrupted players has been stated to not be a part of the systems design by Steven himself.
Easily boosting alts- "putting in the work" is the key point here. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to make alts. I am saying they shouldn't be able to be boosted to far more easily and quickly move through content. Unless it's intrepids intent, fast tracking alt characters tends to interfere with the idea of "risk vs reward" due to the power increases you'd get despite starting a fresh character dealing with low level problems. And technically outfitting an alt isn't the problem either, it's just the amount of power you can outfit them with. My suggestion still allows for a slight outfitting for a bit of a Jumpstart, bit not so overbearing that a player can clearcut through content at the start of the game.
Sure, but that's not to say you should make it even more so when it can easily be avoided. It's one thing to say 1 class will always beat another class due to rock paper scissors. It's an entirely different thing to say "have the full legendary level 10 alt body the fresh account level 10 in greens and whites"
Like I said in an earlier comment. As long as the legendary materials required to repair low level legendaries are also required to repair high level legendaries, then it would be fine due to the demand being diverted to high level items. Keeps the materials viable, and you'd be risking more for the sake of maintaining leveling gear.
Don't agree. Should not take the same mats that made it but I would be fine it cost more to fix. I would like Ashes to be a gear collection mini game. Collecting sets for play styles you want to use. I don't need a mate game for repaires, that does not sound fun in any game
I’m struggling to understand the issue here.
We both agree that open-world PvP is inherently unfair.
If the gear exists, it means someone put in the work to earn it.
It shouldn’t matter to you whether that gear is on their main or alt character. Nor should it matter if the gear was given to them by someone else.
How a person acquired their gear is none of your business and has no bearing on making your experience more “fair.”
The reality is, you’ll rarely face a fair fight below cap.
Don't forget that your issue is also a double edged sword and can lead to a faster XP rate in grind parties when the alts you are leveling with are wearing Lego hand-me downs from their guild armory.
I am afraid to even get you going on the concept that guilds will have sets for alts at each progression level for loan...
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
The point i am making is yes, there will be imbalances via the rock paper scissors design, those a done with a purpose. But that doesn't mean you throw balancing out the window by allowing for massive power gaps at low level through gear. The main concern is have is excessive ease of completing content, but you also brought up the point of creating too wide of a power gap between similar level players in conflict while progressing.
Again though, it's just my own concern, and it comes down to what Intrepid would prefer. You could very well be in the right in saying this is entirely the intention of the developers to allow established players to provide a large advantage for their alts.
It's been established that repairs will require correlated materials to maintain the gear. Just hasn't been confirmed if multiple tiers of the same rarity materials will be required throughout gear levels
Excluding physical and mental disability, the only true advantage anyone would have over you is free time to play Ashes. None of this can really be controlled.
Everyone is equally able to equip insane new gear every 10 levels.
Everyone has equal access to the methods to get that gear.
I honestly look forward to lending out my level 10 LEGOs when I move past them.
I would suggest making friends with people like me. Everyone has equal access to making friends.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
If implemented i will absolutely utilize it. But the possible issue is the effect it will have on newer players later in the game. They already want a clear power separation between levels via causing massive corruption to high level players killing low level players. So I don't see why intrepid would want to allow a massive power difference via gear. A slight to mid power difference wouldn't be terrible.
This is in regards to pvp at least. PVE the main issue is rushing content for boosting
I keep forgetting about a factor that will help limit your concern.
There should be some sort of decay in the economy that keeps the markets going.
Destruction of gear through over enchanting is one form of decay.
I know gear will be able to be deconstructed to gain something of value.
PvP loss.
Without decay the markets will just pile up with Legendries and become so cheap that everyone has them anyway.
With balanced decay people may not want to just toss the gear around to alts because their is more value in it for their main.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Oh definitely, I addressed this with my comment about having legendaries materials required for low level gear also being included with high level gear for upkeep/repairs. Requiring players to contemplate whether they think it's worth using on low level gear or not as opposed to upkeep with a high level characters gear. This would more or less deter the boosting issue I brought up. Though it'd still leave potential for excessive gear power imbalances at low levels. But whether or not that is an issue or intended is up to Intrepid.