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📝 Dev Discussion #70 - Music in MMORPGs 🎶

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Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly livestreams, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!

In this thread, we’ll be discussing:

Dev Discussion - Music in MMORPGs
What are your favorite songs in MMORPGs and why? How do they make you feel? How important are music and ambiance to you, and what examples from your favorite games demonstrate this best?
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 7
    Absolute unparalleled peak
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Nl7CmdwUU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akd-3VcxhVI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSwHhd_VeA

    Music is very important, especially if you can tie it to specific locations/events/encounters.
  • OkamiOkami Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I loved almost every song from Aion, I don’t know if it was my youthful naivety and nostalgia for the game talking but I loved that OST and I don’t think I’ve experienced another mmo that moved me quiet in the same way. Second place goes to FlyFF in my heart, just for the login screen music, lol.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 7
    Generally I believe that if it's good enough, beloved music will connect itself to the emotion of first doing something.

    And usually, I think that's the thing that people are loving/connecting to, moreso than the specifics of the music itself, but I have four counterexamples to my own point:



    I am Windurstian. This is the theme of the starter zone outside San d'Oria, an area I did not reach until at least 35 hours into that game, and had no experience other than arrival in the zone and walking through it. It's a nice zone but not my style. Yet the music gives me goosebumps every time I hear it outside of game, to this day. For me, this is one of the best MMO music scores ever created, period.

    I have learned from my time in TL that I actually strongly prefer music to be active and 'strong' (if it suits an area where I personally would be active and trying to feel 'strong'). Ambience is nice, but sometimes music needs to be 'up where this one is' for me.

    First part only of:


    A similar situation here, I don't start in the town that this is the music for (the first part, the rest are other areas). And honestly I don't like this piece of music much in itself, similar to how I don't love the L2 town themes I've listened to mostly. But it definitely fits and that's important to me, will come back to something about that later.

    I have the player-emotional memory for the piece at 3:33 of that, which I also don't 'like a lot', it's too 'much'. But fairly fitting for a lot of reasons too.

    (The version of the below that I hear in game is different, without any vocals, and shorter'/arranged differentl maybe)


    I could just be a massive fan of this style of music ('Riverdance'-ish stuff) but this has a lot of elements of things I associate with the exact type of event it plays during (Lantern Seed Festival). On the 'music as an emotion language' level, it's conveying a specific thing to me, urging me on to do the thing, but I think it's that the music is creating the mood of the event, not the other way around. Which is lucky for me because I like that event for Economic reasons, and I look forward to whenever I 'need' to do it, because I know I will get to hear that theme while also 'doing' the things. But I think, as noted, the music is the driver, and it's 'carrying me along' through the event (it helps that I'm playing Dagger-Wand and the rhythm of exactly how to do the event matches up with the music pretty well).

    The counter to even that? Giran theme from L2 doesn't seem like it should be in a town. I like it probably for the same overall reason, but it feels like 'sailing cutscene' music or something. It doesn't have a 'place' in most MMO playtime for me.

    Other minor notes:
    I have strong opinions on the theory of how music affects feelings, on the level of stuff like keys and chords, I'm not the composer of my group but I spend a lot of time talking to her about the musical design language of areas for mood and stuff.

    I therefore have a really specific, maybe helpful, note about Lineage 2 music, having only listened to it and never meaningfully played. I feel/know(?) that L2 music is the way it is because L2 is a game that is somewhat designed such that the areas in it 'feel good when viewed from almost bird's eye', and the emotional-language of the music is tuned to this.

    Unfortunately I play TL from a much closer camera view in the areas where the music matters a lot. So I end up wishing that for town zones, it had more 'FFXI' style music, or that they had let a certain subset of composers follow through on some things.

    If you go out to a specific island on the west side of TL map (I really hope this isn't 'just me' somehow), and wait a LONG time, you can sometimes hear 'riffs'. I don't know why they're there specifically, I'd guess they were the equivalent of 'doodles' for the composer(s) and the designers decided not to 'waste' them. They're really nice and technically my 'favorite' part of 'standard' TL music, because they have more of the FF11 'energy', which I believe I desire because of the 'camera angle'. I don't dislike the TL town themes per se, but they're usually a bit more 'grating' or feel 'unfinished' or occasionally 'uninspiring' because they sound like L2 themes, but I'm not 'in the air' for TL.

    There is an exception to this in L2. The 'Hipster Lord of the Rings Theme':


    But that probably has nothing to do with it's MMO-appropriateness tier and is likelier to be emotional/nostalgia combined with the overall feeling.

    And finally, the closing thoughts/pieces. When you wanna introduce me to a boss like Firebrand, here's what I am hoping for:



    And here's what my mind 'expects to hear' when I start fighting:



    I had a whole other explanation about how I like the FF11 Conflict Theme for the PvP better when my team is losing than when winning, but I can't be sure that wasn't because my better memories might be from healing my team up for a comeback, so I'll leave those be.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • LaetitianLaetitian Member
    edited December 9
    I tend to find background noise music to be a waste of potential. I like it when it dares to have louder parts to get its theme highlights across. Not disruptive, just characteristic. Clear melodies. Pointed themes. As little harmony accompaniment distraction as possible.

    The five Towns pieces in Oblivion are my favourites. Along with some of the exploration tracks. They play regardless of the specific event and location, by the way. The game only categorises them roughly as "Town," "Exploration,", "Dungeon," and "Battle." A good indication that what matters is just that the music is good, not that you can tie it to a particular location. If anything, I want the best tracks to follow me across the map, so I never have to miss out on them for too long.
    https://youtu.be/xFjpTF4-PgI?si=Y-BJnFoCpbnPLgf-
    I'd describe the mood I like in my games as serene, bright, aesthetic, friendly, uplifting, optimistic.

    Edit: Whoops. Just realised I failed the prompt.
    Regnum has music I have an emotional connection to, but mostly because of the memories associated with the grind. I listened to the Archeage soundtrack for a while when I was waiting for Trion to release it in the West, but I wouldn't remember any of the tracks. Other than that, no MMO music I've run into has held my interest. I really think MMO music should aspire to be more like single-player RPG music if it wants to achieve anything worthwhile.
    The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
  • Lineage 2's music was one of most memorable for me. Sometime grand, often short, always just right.

    Star Wars Galaxies, using the original music for the franchise gave goosebumps when it launched, but that's a special case.

    Best ambiance music in gaming I can think of would be Skyrim. Castlevania Lords of Shadows 1 and 2 also had great scores, but Skyrim could be so subtle at time... Different genre of game, different ambiance music.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Also, if we're talking solo games as well, Genshin hasn't been beaten in terms of its music for me (well, except for the times it beats itself :D )
    The first 2 are the PEAK of tracks with vocals and the other two are good representations of proper "theme" of locations for me.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu_I8boQxoI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDj0minlucQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhjCyv6wulA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABW6ueWVSq0
  • MainQuesttMainQuestt Member, Alpha Two
    This song is something that touches our feelings at the same time, bringing something immersive. I think something of this magnitude would be fantastic for the theme of Ashes of Creation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CSyeFr-vNU
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  • I genuinely love the music of 4Story as a whole; some tracks are soothing, while others are full of excitement. I also believe that they successfully reflect the essence of the medieval fantasy universe. Since I’ve been following Ashes of Creation, I hope it will feature soundtracks similar to 4Story—ones that deeply resonate with the soul and mind.

    https://youtu.be/azdxddrTA4c?si=XA7p1h7DrgfK0Gii

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL3_ggb-WZwtIM8ayn5vVnaBERr3Ewl3_t
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Dev Discussion - Music in MMORPGs
    What are your favorite songs in MMORPGs and why? How do they make you feel? How important are music and ambiance to you, and what examples from your favorite games demonstrate this best?

    Music is incredibly important, and is something that can significantly raise (or lower) the quality of a game's experience.

    Music binds memory and emotion. It provides both the impetus and emotional focus to help you engage with whatever it is that you are doing. Good music will also almost automatically pull you into the feeling of the place and situation that you are in.

    One of the most memorable tracks for me personally, from FFXI, is the soundtrack for Sarutabaruta. This is the starter field zone just outside my starting city (you get a choice of three). It's "nothing special", but it is nonetheless a very important part of my journey, and a song I love, from what is still one of my favorite places in the game.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qexq4rGQaOc

    This is what you hear when you step outside for the first time (if you chose to start in Windurst). You're
    stepping out into an open field. There are enemies, but they're not extremely dense.

    5qjzfagiqj7x.png
    npaayio18ydv.png

    It's a peaceful song for a relatively peaceful area, but it's also something that fits the mood of that open, slightly windy grassland very well.

    One thing that's immediately obvious depending on the types of game soundtracks you're used to however, is that this song is very direct. It's not 'subtle ambient', instead it has a clear melodic identity that's put front and center, while at the same time not trying to be more than it is. A ton of FFXI music is like this, and it's something I very much appreciate.

    I adore this straightforward melodic style, rather than the more orchestral, blendy background ambience that some games use. It's very effective in instantly giving you the feeling of a new area, or refreshing the feeling of somewhere you haven't been for a while. It also gives you something you can easily remember when you think of a zone (or activity!). I can, immediately, off the top of my head, hum you Sarutabaruta, The Cosmic Wheel, Heavens Tower, Stargazing, On This Blade, Forgotten City, Autumn Footfalls, and any number of other FFXI songs.

    Because they're something that you can connect to directly, rather than just letting wash over you or similar, I feel that they are more effective for videogames.

    It also means that they're written to clearly represent the core feeling of a specific place or situation, rather than just providing a supporting background ambience. While you can certainly do the latter, I find that it is generally less impactful and less memorable. I remember most of the music in FFXI, and associate it with it's zone.

    Despite having played a reasonable amount of BDO, I can't say the same.

    BDO is the perfect counter-example, however. I haven't logged in in quite a while, but my and my group's conclusion (supported by some historical data, iirc) was that their bard did a good job... but then the developers somehow at some point seemingly randomly shuffled the songs around between the areas. As a result, not a single one has a clear core identity.

    Nothing like a damaged quarter of town on war footing, where you go between deployments to active combat areas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD-TANsKvcw

    "Stargazing" perfectly captures the 'quiet' of the area, and the essence of the broader situation while at the same time giving the clear feeling that this is a space where you can rest, recover, and plan, without forgetting the ongoing war. And that's what everyone else here (it's more military than civilian) is doing too. This is where you head to when you're planning to deploy, doing your wind-down or prep, or waiting for a battle to deploy to.

    And also nothing like a slightly ethereal ancient forest full of extremely tall trees, full of wandering golems, goblins, mushrooms, and the occasional skeleton at night.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smJrVboIOjA

    Not like a small town populated by refugees from the fall of a powerful city at the start of the great war.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1omGnKhDyLw

    An isolated place that time has largely left behind, their town is safe, hidden away in an open-roofed cave, but its population is largely older now, and the areas around it are dangerous, the residents having been been forgotten by the world, thought to have been lost to the war until recently.

    My immediate feeling was that Ashes was going to have trouble with this sort of thing, but honestly, I don't really think so. You can easily do the same sort of thing for your nodes, given how those are currently designed. Themes for all 100+ individual nodes might be a bit of an ask, but you could certainly do by region, by type of node, or similar things. It wouldn't be terrible if some similar nodes shared themes, but it would probably be bad if adjacent nodes (or all nodes in a region) usually did.

    You've got a few different categories to work with. Things like Riverlands/Mountains/Tundra/Costal; Scientific/Military/Economic/Religious; Kaelar/Vaelune/Dunir/Empyrean.

    I'm not sure exactly what combinations you should choose, but I'm sure you can find something that works.

    Important things to note however are:
    • You have to have different city and field themes. Sorry, but if I leave the built up section of the node, I can't have city music playing out in the minotaur-filled hills, and vice-versa. You can possibly reuse the field music as the lv1 node music, though. It might even be better to do so.
    • You absolutely get to give specific POIs (or classes of POIs, this really doesn't have to be hard) their different themes, and this will be hugely impactful when you wander into one, especially accidentally. (TL's music changes to a more 'danger' one when you wander too close to an elite boss.)
    • People need to be able to feel the difference in cultures between cities when they travel between them. Even (perhaps especially) neighboring ones. Whether that's racial (but be careful of the more common mixed-race "plurality rather than majority" case), based on development, or ethos (what're we calling Military/Religious/Scientific again?).
    • Seasonal shifts would be really cool, but honestly the combination matrix here would become painfully large immediately if you went all-in. Nonetheless perhaps this works for field themes where there are probably less combinations. Frozen Riverlands might be different from Muddy Spring Riverlands, etc.

    The tl;dr of it is fundamentally this: Your music needs to introduce the contexts in your world, and help people shift between them as they go about their lives. How many contexts you have and how well the music suits them and is able to do this job is the core determining factor of success, much moreso than the exact style or techniques chosen.

    Good examples of these sorts of context shifts include leaving the Kingdom of San d'Oria...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZTtguGoips

    ...and heading out into the surrounding forest, Ronfaure.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNaOpYzKM68

    You can hear the Elvaan tradition and culture in both, but the transition from city to forest is also clear, and each has its distinct identity well-represented while maintaining a sense of familiarity with the other.

    Or stepping off the Ferry...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyU_6uVrc4I

    ...from Mhaura...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoNMEWhalxs

    ... to Selbina.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZmY0nB0BTw

    At the same time, not every location needs music, and that transition itself can be powerful. FFXI's open world dungeons have no music at all. When you step from Batallia Downs...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9C2FhoSEKo

    ...into the crypts of the Eldieme Necropolis, you immediately get the feeling that you have stepped into a different sort of place. The relaxing, relatively peaceful hills of the downs are behind you, and you're entering a space that is not a part of normal life. I don't even know how to describe this properly, but once you've gotten used to the music of the overworld, its absence creates a clear and distinct feeling. And if you go for a long enough session, that silence, punctuated only by battle music as you fight, might end up leaving a void that makes you yearn slightly (by the end of your natural time) for the surface world, or certainly at least appreciate that world when you return to it and are hit by that familiar ambience.

    Silence plays another important role, however. In FFXI (and other games), the soundtrack doesn't play continuously. You'd get fatigued if you listened to the same song for long enough, whether it was background ambient style or melodic style. There are long (irregular) pauses between loops.

    Fairyland's "Indoor" theme, which I remember as the Shop theme is good within its style and context, but you can't listen to it for that long, for example.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yJajePwI_4

    This is perhaps 'obvious', as I feel like most games do it right these days, but I might as well mention it, at least.

    Fairyland is a MMO that I did not play for nearly as long as my main game, and to this day, I do not associate the OST with the specific zones properly, for the most part. I'm not entirely sure why this is, but I feel like it is maybe related to the fact that while they use a melodic style, they're also using the 'drone' and 'shimmer' type effects that guide it into the background. A contrast from FFXI. This could perhaps be a matter of the amount of time I've spent in these areas, but I haven't that much time in Sauromugue Champaign either, and I could probably name this one...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fibIUw_frI

    But as for Fairyland, I believe this is a forest up by Bluebird...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZI2dY1ZDI

    And this is probably Gion, my home/starter town...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ4UJye7IoI

    ...but it might be this one instead...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w9l6S2SfA8

    Some stick, some don't. Even though I remember some of the themes clearly, they're harder to place.

    Sadly, however, you can't "cheat" and give the same area multiple themes (in the sense of the "Economic" and "Riverlands" themes alternating in a given node), for the very same reason. You'd be yanking players back and forth between contexts, and leaving them never sure what "version" of their own city they're coming home to.

    Longer-term seasonal changes, or even "day and night" are okay however, because these are entirely predictable and consistent, but if you do this you have to be very careful to not create more thematic distance than intended between the different states of the node.

    You get leeway with events though! FFXI has no daylight or seasonal cycle in its music, but during the Sunbreeze Festival each year, in all three major cities and their immediately surrounding zones, you hear this wonderful festive song instead of the usual.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ-E_mZca9M

    A thoughtful listener, however, will notice that this song is very specifically suited to this particular task, specifically because it is for a well-defined festival context, and directly represents that context. It doesn't conflict with the environment any of the types of zones it will play in. The cities, and if you're past the initial levels, their surrounding areas, are all places you can relax and low-key celebrate in. At the same time, this wouldn't work year-round. When this song plays, it specifically creates a new context and shifts the player into it, getting them into the festival spirit. Even if you're not celebrating, everyone else is.

    No discussion of music is complete without a mention of Bard songs, however. I didn't really have a problem with what Ashes has in that regard, but I'd be remiss not to mention how FFXI does it. There are effectively three songs: Wind Instrument, String Instrument, and Voice (which is per race). You don't usually hear voice, since that would imply no instrument is equipped, but it had to exist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzglU239v0

    All of these are simple, straightforward melodies which work very well, don't clash with any of the zone or combat music, and honestly do not even get tiring while you play the class. The fact that these melodies are performed during casting, but not then continuously through the entire effect duration helps, of course.

    Oof, I haven't even gotten into battle music yet. I think that will have to be for later.
  • MelfrightMelfright Member
    edited December 7
    I can only reference Western MMO OSTs because those are the only ones I play...

    Lets start with WoW.
    Why do I like their OSTs? Every single song fits perfectly to your surroundings and has cultural significance to the region. Some are just there to set a right mood.

    1. This one, for some reason, makes me miss my home. Honestly, this would fit dwarf OST perfectly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTSK5waNs8

    2.Never, ever has an OST made me want to explore every nook and cranny as this one...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrXfuzpMCkA

    3.Duskwood OST was so different from the rest of WoW songs. It actually gave a region some horror vibes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW1veoIJasc

    Whole Tirisfal Glade too
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoIIlbUpYtE

    4. This just screams human to me.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW4fASDkQXA&list=RDQM9f57M65Uu7w&index=2


    Especially Stormwind OST. First one plays as you enter in the city. It was jaw dropping.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roMWEeV2P4U




    5. Then there are trolls, which do have some good songs in vanilla game, but in later expansions their music improved greatly IMO
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3nZM0eYPI8

    6. Entirety of Night Elf area OST just fits that forest elf aesthetics. Little old me thought every Night elf zone in wow is mysterious.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-6riincY-0&list=PL19FSJH4LgWvzyc3Z_sz7tYHfl6vPWw9v&index=4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTPn_Nk_KrM&list=PL19FSJH4LgWvzyc3Z_sz7tYHfl6vPWw9v

    7. This is just classic at this point..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol9p__sjD6U
    Mor'shan Base and Crossroads themes are just signature orc songs.



    Guild Wars 2.

    1.This one plays at conclusion of a specific story. It felt like a proper end credits song
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOMQxVtbkik

    2. Path of Fire has some good desert themes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol-ZokPD2VI

    LOTRO
    Most chill OST out of any Western MMO
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjPOXC-1Zxk&list=PLqwjLIkdoyVGgp-qsswZ-jAkAtibUVe0s

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Gonna drop some OST that would fit an MMO, but they are from single player games.

    1. Gothic 2 - Lobard’s Farm
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_6WO5tj7mg

    Vista point Gothic 3
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R20Yyu2mTlE

    Gothic 3 Soundtrack - Faring
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAS7iDDCZKc

    Ishtar-Gothic 3. Perfect for desert biomes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43B_ZkGL2e0&list=PLW0GP2A6qTDnOtrVBCD9QPWH91-0rPiCZ&index=1

    2. Dungeon Siege 2 OST
    Freedom for a Price
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUyOyGqVDN0
    Aman'lu theme
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9m-d0r6R1E

    Something for sea roaming
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfC1PEKt1U
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDXNSWJLuo

    If you need inspiration for tavern music, check:
    Bard's Tale tavern music
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZSZIu4J7n8&list=PLdUlQtsyIrUSNCSvzz6AifqT1B1qRt6w5&index=3
    Neverwinter Nights 2 tavern music
    Witcher 1 tavern music


    Entire TeS: Oblivion OST
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c5Zf8ALfN8

    Entire Witcher 3 OST. Especially this one, which made even most tedious parts of my 100% run bearable.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NknjE2SBPxw
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    In my opinion if you are going to make a game based on Pathfinder or DnD campaign, look at games based on that setting for music inspiration.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B92P1-OUNJo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZOuy4YM0AI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJYsaFelV-4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48B0qhEVGw





  • ImanekImanek Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    The soundtrack is undoubtedly a major asset for any game, capable of touching our senses and even giving us goosebumps. As a nostalgic gamer, I often think back to the music from Age of Conan. It had such a strong character and created a unique atmosphere. For example, exploring the Cimmerian mountains with Memories of Cimmeria playing in the background—what an unforgettable experience!

    Ashes of Creation is already a stunning game, but it’s true that, for now, it lacks music with a strong personality. The current tracks are nice, but they feel a bit neutral and timid, if I may say so.

    To illustrate my point, I found a YouTube video of Age of Conan. Back in the day, this game was a graphical masterpiece, but its greatest strength was undoubtedly its soundtrack. For the nostalgic among you, or for those who want to discover it, I invite you to listen (or re-listen) to this gem:

    https://youtu.be/wfxv2OihEUE?si=29jHNNGUY-PTxym8

    A soundtrack full of emotion, capable of giving us chills as we explore the breathtaking world of Verra through the seasons, would add an even more magical and immersive dimension to the game. Imagine traversing future snow-covered peaks, with music enhancing every step through those majestic landscapes. It would make the experience even more unforgettable and captivating.

    https://youtu.be/DqBMmCN-a7c
    665fom6jna0l.png
  • KotterKotter Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Everquest 2 Soundtrack 22 Permafrost https://youtu.be/Sxa_E7jPwTU?si=cieGPjKaEyYsu6oe via @YouTube
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Since my bard seems to be basically throwing the book at you I'll pull to attention something Ashes needs that she won't get to. "Alien"

    As my bard explained melodic core is a very important aspect for mmo music because it ingrains a very potent feeling. While you can get away with more orchestral tones, when a place needs to feel fantastical, unordinary, wild, or alien, you need this melodic core even more. Why? Because when you are in an area that is supposed to unnerve you sometimes silence speaks to foreignness best. Nothing can make you feel more unnerved or disquieted more than whatever your mind projects on a strange land. Since you need some amount of 'quiet' or even pauses of pure silence for an effective alien feel, you have less room for 'clutter' and therefore going immediately to the more 'melodic core' is important.

    For Ashes corruption, the underdark, and some of the corruption 'demons' and bosses will need a fair amount of 'silence' due to their alien look and feel so that the epicness that will ensue in an important fight can have striking contrast.

    So to answer your actual question

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYuHBEmlAyE

    This is my favorite noncombat song in an mmo. It makes me feel a type of realistic fear and 'disquiet' on the foreign dreamlike landscape it is meant to portray.
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • CarlisleCarlisle Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    https://youtu.be/0ZvPSfmE79A?si=2k7WWdziyyVlBC4R No words needed, this is part of my life and you guys can see the impact in the comments.

    Other race/city theme: https://youtu.be/tJtHccexIXs?si=j2N1_37F5-0p8Qsb
  • AlvaOatavioAlvaOatavio Member, Alpha Two
    For me, it's hands down the Dravanian Forelands night theme, Painted Skies.
    I was absolutely captivated by the entirety of Heavensward but the music really made me take things slower and really experience the world that was carefully crafted for this story. Absolutely breathtaking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqcwGwU8a8
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Great music is essential. It takes a great game and makes it excellent. If it's bad, it can take a great game and make it only good. Needs to be something epic and grand for a game like Ashes, something that puts you into the game just by hearing it.

    Anything from Jeremy Soule is the pinnacle of great gaming music. Check out his Guild Wars and Elder Scrolls music. They're both games with a similar high fantasy theme to Ashes, and the music is stunning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVB7GT3RWw

    I very much look forwards to hearing the music you have for us.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • I don't have any specific tracks to link to, but music certainly is important in MMOs. For Ashes i hope you get music that matches each biome and season/weatherevent, and spice it up with different types of combat music depending on the enemy. Epic music for bosses and such.

    I also want a lot of ambient noises though, and for it not to be drowned out by the music. Insects, running water, birds, wind, leaves, etc.
  • MoyelMoyel Member, Alpha Two
    Age of Conan in my mind has one of the most astounding soundtracks I have ever heard in the 20 years I have been playing MMOs. Every song represents the area it is assigned to so as to provide a feel to that area. It was wonderful and I hope Ashes of Creation takes a note or two from Knut Avenstroup Haugen and Helene Boksle.
  • MindsEyeMindsEye Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 9
    As someone from PONG, to ATARI, Nintendo, Video Arcades, FF VII, Chrono Trigger, and Secret Of Mana, The music has always been used or highlight the theme, story, and environment, a player is surrounded and immersed in. The opening of the Secret of Mana is quite remarkable for an opening.
    In this case, the goal was to give a sense of wonder and exploration while trying to save the world https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y20pc_0zFgg
    In the case of Vyra, after being forced to leave their world, they come back to find it changed, all new creatures, and having to explore a world they once new. So here we could start the main theme a dark, somber base notes, then open further to a sense of awe and wonder… then it turns quite dangerous, action paced music when you go after a grem or a “pretty flower” then action music abounding as nonstop dynamic scores are weaved in from highwaymen to corsairs, pirates, caravans assaulted by a monsters, to bring vsck the resources to yet another opener of awe and wonder as you take the resources gathered, that brought the high drama, to a small camp, where another major scores begins as we see (imagine at ultra speed from camp to a metropolis) a grand thematic music as the node builds to metropolis and then peak crescendo of this node fighting a node war for the right to a metropolis and huzzah, victory 🎉 and we hear said node earned to be a metropolis… yet a pair of glowing beady eyes from the local dragon wakes up, peaking with slaying the dragon and our heros settling for a pint at the local tavern. Now if a main theme can capture that, that music would capture what has been envisioned for this game all is action, adventure, exploring and progression.

    At least this is just for an opening theme and main music of the game

    For environmental themes
    Desert - mid eastern themes with some sitar thrown in. Think some strong drum rythms giving the feeling of HOT 🥵.
    Jungle - reggae need tropical themed music and the steel drums scream use-me here
    Riverlands - Flute and mandolin medival as main instrumental themes. Think music from Northern Italy from the 1500s to the 1700s.
    Mountains - I’d actually use an all mans choir here and drums for the idea of entering inside them like a mine or a Dwarven forge . Climbing them - then music that gives the idea of vastness and loftiness
    The sea - Music around~1700 -Sea themed action music — The peak of piracy - lots of future PvP is gonna happen on the high seas.
    Plains - theme of sweeping winds and maybe herds of Mammoths 🦣 thrown in and maybe a hairy rhino in the fog for mystery.
    Metropolis - busy city music - lots of themes abound for this but full symphony with choir here a must.
    Camp - maybe 2 to 3 instruments emphasizing WARMTH, that disappears when leaving (thus warmth)
    Village - this music is unmistakable for a village more warmth in music than camp should be in design and outside of village, welp no warmth like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMnZite_lB0
    In short, Each city stage should have its own theme and the music progress with the stages.

    Oh and for pure adventure theme I’d love to see Mr. Bear McReary top James Horner’s. “Ride of the Fire Mares 🔥 🐎” From the so so sci-fi - a case where the music made the movie.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwQZ9UrnyJw

    That is all for now
  • sjphilly85sjphilly85 Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 9
    Ive only played a few MMORPGs DAOC, Lineage 2 and WOW. All had really great music.

    Lineage 2 had absolutely EPIC and beautiful intro music and really nice log-in screens. https://youtube.com/watch?v=NxP2nIxjXyk

    DAOC was my favorite games of all time and in most places had really simple and peaceful tracks that fit the mood of the area. There was also intro and log in music that transitioned into unique log in music for the realm that you logged into... so the same could be done with nodes for example. I thought this was a great system.

    Later in DAOC they added cheesy loud and obnoxious sounds of battle and "battle music" for when battles and large pvp were occurring which I thought was not necessary. Should have just stuck with the theme of the area. The random whooping, hooting and hollering I guess put in when other people or groups are fighting in the are is kinda of a drawback and sounds contrived.

    Also ambient music changed from day to night in different areas and many dungeons had their own themes.

    But here is an example of ambient from the Campacorentin Forest In Albion in DAOC. The first place I ever set eyes on this world. Really like it and very chill. Not bad for a over 20 year old game and better than many today.

    I know this game is far from finished but at this point the music and sounds in AOC are definitely something to be desired.

    Keep up the good work.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=_6tnhPe4K0U&list=PL_wqGNpSHsj0XRp9YOG1kvrN64hhlMWIZ&index=3
  • deussilvamdeussilvam Member, Alpha Two
    I guess I'm not too surprised to see that nobody has linked EverQuest music. Compared to many other MMOs, the music in EverQuest is maybe a bit more simplistic due to its age. However, sometimes simple is all you need.

    My absolute favourite is the Kelethin theme:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bTD2YqI9PM

    In second place is actually the short jingle that plays when you have a bank/vendor window open. Sometimes this would end up playing on loop for hours:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWvPTDNsl_o

    I really like Desert of Ro theme as well, it fits the zone super well:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUyAtwNCqa4

    And the main theme does deserve a mention:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V01PD78dtI8

    I am selling EQ a bit short with these examples, as they are all from 1999 (the base game). The latter expansions had some great music as well and with hardware improvements, they also were more complex. However, I never ended up spending as much time in the expansion zones when compared to the classic zones, so they never stuck with me as much. And even in recent years, when I've gone back to play on TLP servers, the classic 1-50 leveling experience is the one I enjoy the most.
  • SinolaiSinolai Member
    edited December 9
    This was both the opening of the FFXIV Realm Reborn as well as the final boss music in the first raid. The music went forward as the boss lost health and changed phase and the epic part from 2:49 started after add phase when the boss becomes visible from the fog, arena is lit aflame and the boss starts charging a huge attack outside the arena. All you can do is watch and brace for impact. https://youtube.com/watch?v=bREZqkbI2WU FFXIV has also used the same melody a few times in the game, one my favourite version is the haunting organ version https://youtube.com/watch?v=sgvt_qwkTCQ.

    Souls games also has many memorable boss themes.
    Dark Souls 3
    something big and powerful
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=wKPZMc0FpXo Vordt of the Boreal Valley,
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=9m5_4cQvg40 Dragonslayer Armor,
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xMxM-nqGUa0 Dark Eater Midir
    Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring
    Something holy/demonc
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2EIuNCM1THI Deacons of the Deep,
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=WSabqduf8jo Godskin Apostles,
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=yR26H6dloYE Mogh, Lord of Blood
  • ThoroughThorough Member, Alpha Two
    MMO music is one of my favourite things ever. There are just so many great ones. WoW, Guild Wars, Wildstar, SWTOR, Runescape, LOTRO, EVE, etc etc etc.
    I think the key is to just go all-out on making the music the absolute biggest expression of the game world as possible. Music can sell the beauty or the epicness or the sense of history much better than visuals or even writing.
    And with MMOs having relatively few timing pressures, compared to film and narrative games, it's an opportunity to let the composers run free and wild.
    Is Bear McCreary still on board for this game?
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Thorough wrote: »
    Is Bear McCreary still on board for this game?

    I was wondering that. Given how blatantly obvious the answers were always going to be (Erm yes, good music is important...), made me wonder if he's pulled out or just put up his prices or something, and now they're wondering how cheap they can go! :D
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • ThoroughThorough Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Thorough wrote: »
    Is Bear McCreary still on board for this game?

    I was wondering that. Given how blatantly obvious the answers were always going to be (Erm yes, good music is important...), made me wonder if he's pulled out or just put up his prices or something, and now they're wondering how cheap they can go! :D

    Totally. McCreary has been huge for a long time, but I'd say his status (and busy-ness) has gone up dramatically since he was first mentioned in connection to Ashes. So I wouldn't be surprised if things have changed.

    There are so many great composers out there though, so it's okay if it's not him (or he only does a few main themes or something). His Sparks & Shadows team is great.
  • SengardenSengarden Member, Alpha Two
    The thing that first got my interested in writing fiction, modeling 3D environments, and storytelling in general, is the concept of considering the environments we inhabit and experience as characters in and of themselves. World of Warcraft does a really phenomenal job of this - every zone has a signature storyline that's manifested through its aesthetic, physical design (in the sense of how the player's avatar physically interacts with the zone), NPC population, and music. The music of any zone or encounter should be a perfect manifestation of the otherwise intangible 'character' of that place or experience.

    Getting the music right is equally important to every other facet of the game. If a game dev team isn't able to commit resources to finding a great composer or doesn't have the creative eloquence to properly convey the emotion of the world they're creating to them, can players even expect them to have properly conveyed their ideas between each other while developing every other part of the game? It brings into question how well-crafted the entire experience ahead of the new or prospective player will be.

    So, all that being said, here are some of my favorites:

    Grizzly Hills is a crowd favorite from the WoTLK era. You've got ambient wind blowing through the conifers, the occasional birdsong, and this heartwarming composition of somewhat rugged strings contrasted by the somber, wispy winds and reeds. It's a beautiful, pristine, mountainous territory dotted with rugged, yet cozy outposts resembling the Northern American frontier, and the composition just hits every single one of those character notes. There's a balance of bright, warm, snappy, somewhat whimsical sections, and cool, majestic, somber, and imposing structures. It's beautiful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTSK5waNs8


    The Elwynn Forest Theme is another classic WoW fave. Immediately, you're hit with this soft, sudden, bright, warm, slowly awakening composition. This is basically equivalent to a new player stepping into the world for the first time, so that's a wonderful start. It slowly shifts into this sort of soft, hazy, warm, soothing lullaby with a building sense of unease. The zone is largely rather innocent in theme - a classic light-fantasy world forest made to introduce you into a larger high-fantasy world - but as you get further along, you begin to discover the Defias Brotherhood and all the myriad ways in which they're plotting the downfall of Stormwind's leaders. Who knows what they'd do with the last bastion of Humankind in the palm of their hands?

    It makes me feel like I fell asleep in a wooded glade on a warm Summer's afternoon, and have awakened to a soft sunbeam crossing over my eyes. I slowly rise to my feet, and it feels as though I've passed out of the safe, warm forest I fell asleep in. As the sun begins to sink behind the boughs of distant trees, something about the shifting of the shadows doesn't feel quite right. There's something wrong in this quaint little wood, and I get the feeling I'm the only one who can find out what.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvW-QTiZLQ0


    I Want To Live (Classical Version) is a great light melody from BG3 that captures a wide range of emotions without being overly extravagant or dramatic. It keeps a nice pace that works well for BG3's lively world, and really stimulates my mind at different points in the composition with feelings of joy, comfort, uncertainty, and grief. In BG3, all of your decisions carry weight, some of them to extraordinary measures, and there are always combating voices in your head wondering whether you made the right ones, and what decisions yet lie ahead of you. The world itself becomes more complex in that way. You're no longer strictly a lawful good hero like in a generic MMO who's just floating through the world doing the obvious thing to save everyone and obey their rulers. The world is no longer just a physical obstacle course, but a moral one, and the soundtrack generally reflects that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rrTWbpd8eY


    The Witcher 3 soundtrack is an excellent example of a video game composer finding a theme and more or less sticking to it, with some slight variation, while still keeping things interesting. The instrumentals are lively, varied, fairly authentic to the time period, and often come off sounding a little rustic, as if you're listening to a musical troupe performing for you in the streets or taverns of Central or Eastern Europe, rather than an orchestra performing fantasy compositions in a music hall. This works well for The Witcher, as you're playing a bit of a rough and tumble character who's often roughing it in the woods in search of prey or breezing through rural towns with death in his wake. A man of the people. Well, he would be, if they didn't all hate him so much. Here's one of my particular favorites, The Musty Scent of Fresh Pâté. Makes me think of a Tavern setting, or perhaps a crafting station. Someplace relatively safe with an air of uncertainty about it. Inspiring, yet familiar. Energizing, yet comfortable.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3DGGy9eHFQ
  • kaylalvkaylalv Member, Alpha Two
    The theme song that has stuck with me for 15+ years is definitely Lineage II’s Dion town theme song by Bill Brown: Shepherd’s Flute 🥰
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  • pdr0pdr0 Member, Alpha Two
    songs should be relaxing to keep up with the long hours of leveling

    payon theme is a masterpiece!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz57mGxXncE

    others

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5YxyVwfTD8&list=PLWhndVYvXnqeOIzhyWBPiNEveblKc5Mdu&index=2
  • BirqaBirqa Member, Alpha Two
    Im not much into music in MMOs but music that i listen to, even decades after playing are the soundtrack of Zelda, Ocarina of time
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ6Fq-LfDZQ as example

    and Secret of Mana:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGna-qHdg-k

    this music immerses me to this day. im curious with what you will come up with :)
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