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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Sagas and Themes - impact and cost.
SmileGurney
Member, Alpha Two
I have reached level 25, and frankly I see little reason atm to use Sagas, Themes are already an expensive headache. I do like some Sagas in their concept...but still their situational impact vs cost isn't there for me.
Theme's passive and active buffs are nice, but they are expensive to cast and with how micro-intensive bard is already, their 30 second uptime just adds to that pain. I suppose I should be grateful their cast time is short.
Sages are sold as these impactful abilities which can make a real difference in a pvx engagement. Bugs aside (I don't think all of them even work as intended), I don't feel their impact on the battlefield justifies:
Please someone prove me wrong. Thanks.
Theme's passive and active buffs are nice, but they are expensive to cast and with how micro-intensive bard is already, their 30 second uptime just adds to that pain. I suppose I should be grateful their cast time is short.
Sages are sold as these impactful abilities which can make a real difference in a pvx engagement. Bugs aside (I don't think all of them even work as intended), I don't feel their impact on the battlefield justifies:
- Talent point investment, especially tier 2 sagas
- 180 second set-up time
- Mana cost
- Cast time and being rooted when doing so
- The fact you have to recast your themes after a Saga consumes them
Please someone prove me wrong. Thanks.
My lungs taste the air of Time,
Blown past falling sands…
Blown past falling sands…
1
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discord.gg/lod
Blown past falling sands…
yea were testing it. and were still around
discord.gg/lod
The gravity one is cool to mess with, but it is not something I would use regularly.
OP is right the sagas are awful.
I am not sure if a number buff would fix any of them.
They need a good rethink.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
Return to Verra is over all ok and a nice O Shit button
However instead of a Heal I would like to have it in Shield form with just some glee
(Maybe 50% of Health as Shield for 10 Sec)
Reason: to distinguish the Bard more from the Cleric.
The Silent Pantheon is sadly not very useful, running around collecting the Buffs is annoying and depending on location or group play difficult.
However a Weapon buff that gives weapons attacks Mana steal of 100% DMG to Mana for 2-3 Sec could d be useful.
The Apocalypse I tried it a few times but sadly I didn't feel any significant impact from it.
However with a bit of adjustment the skill could be good more impactful.
The Myth of creation is a more PvP Skill and ok for now and Volume 2 is .... not that important for now
I've had some time to think about this topic and have come up with a more radical system for themes and Sagas.
First of all, I wouldn't change the 30-second buffs for activation, except for Joy(It needs a bit of Love).
From here on, I would implement a triangle system for the whole loop, with the number 3 being a consistent factor in the system.
First Use Case: Passive Effect
• Tragedy: Each Tragedy gives a 20% chance to generate 1 additional resonance. When a set of 3 Tragedies is active, it has a 75% chance to trigger.
WHY: As a Bard, resonance is an important resource. Optimizing the generation of resonance and attacking to trigger it is a crucial part of the gameplay loop.
• Mastery: Stays as is, but a set of 3 increases mana restoration by 40%.
• Comedy: Stays as is, but a set of 3 increases healing by 25%.
(Random Idea that has not much to do with anything)
Also a collection if 1 tragedy, 1 Mastery and 1 Comedy could create a buff effect that increases your Melodies by 10% (but removes the individual effect of each)
Second Use Case: Self-Use Effect
-Skill Name: Narcissist
-Available: Automatically at level 12 or 15
-Description and Effect: Consume your Tragedy, Mastery, or Comedy for personal gain.
-Narcissist triggers the 30-second cooldown of the themes, leaving you without any passive effect for 30 seconds and requiring 2 minutes to reach 3 stacks again.
• 3x Tragedy: Get 5 Stacks of Resonance and increase attack speed by 50% for 6 seconds.
• 3x Mastery: Restores 25% of your mana and 50% of your stamina.
• 3x Comedy: Heals you for 40% of your health and gives you an additional 20% shield for 5 seconds.
Third Use Case: Group Buff and Cooperation Effects
-Skill Name: Sagas I & II
-Available: Can be skilled
-Description and Effect: Consume your Tragedy, Mastery, or Comedy to open possibilities for your allies.
-Sagas triggers the 30-second cooldown of the themes, leaving you without any passive effect for 30 seconds and requiring 2 minutes to reach 3 stacks again.
Buffs (Sagas)
• 3x Mastery: Pantheon of Heroes (Burst Buff)
Awaken the inner hero in your allies with your stories.
Increase physical and magical attack power by 100(or Damage by 20-25% or so)
ncrease attack and cast speed by 25% for 6 seconds.
• 3x Comedy: Return to Verra (Protection Buff)
Your allies can face every challenge in Verra because you will protect them.
Gives each member in range a shield of 50% of their life for 10 seconds.
If the shield is destroyed before it runs out, trigger Glee.
• 2x Mastery, 1x Comedy(Saga2): Heroes of Ages Past
WHY: The buffs seem strong, but you lose the passive effect and they have short durations. Additionally, it could be a way to counter boss mechanics. For example, if a boss has a devastating attack and you need to hide behind a wall, you could use the protection to minimize the impact. Or if another boss casts something and you need to stop them with a certain amount of damage, you can buff your team to increase burst damage output.
Cooperation (Sagas)
• 3x Tragedy: I would leave the same, just fire damage and burn effect so other classes can combust them.
• 2x Mastery, 1x Tragedy (Saga2): A cold field that ticks chill, and if the enemy stays inside, the last tick freezes them. Mages can then shatter it.
• 2x Tragedy, 1x Mastery(Saga2): Horrors of the Void
These changes would give the Bard 3 ways of decision he can make in Fights, Narcissist to save himself with a big heal, Mana or to Hit faster and trigger Resonance more often.
Sagas to support his Allies or Cooperate with other Classes for triggering effect and Increase Damage like Compost or Shatter.
And Passive effects that are easy to use but have a no bombastic impact
For example the 3 Sets of each could be SAGA 1 and gives only buss
3 Tragedy = Burst Buff
3 Mastery = Personal Buff (you create a Wave and each hit Ally get a buff based on his class)
3 Comedy = Protection Buff
and SAGA2 gets the Attack / Cooperation Buff by mix and matching the colors
but that was just a alternative idea that I had in my mind for some a time, but sorting it like this would make it a bit more boring I think
What is wrong is that I build up three solid self buffs over the course of a minute and a half.
Then I spend those buffs on some of the weakest abilities in the game for the effort it takes to cast them.
And it takes extra skill points and hot bar slots to do all of this.
In almost all cases I would rather just have my three stacks of the buffs it takes to cast sagas.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
I think there is a difference in saying definitive "do this to fix it!"
and just theory craft possible solution that they are clearly able to ignore if they find it not suitable or is not part of their vision.
But for the issue in itself I agree 100% with you!
You’re free to write as much as you like here, but it might be helpful to consider the signal-to-noise ratio.
In the past, I’ve also shared long-winded ideas and solutions, but it can be difficult for Intrepid to sift through all of that.
Even the best ideas might get lost in a lengthy thread.
While theory-crafting solutions can be fun, feedback is more likely to get noticed if it’s concise and clearly states exactly what’s wrong.
Personally, I find it much harder to express my opinions with fewer words, but it’s a skill I am finding to be worth practicing.
This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
This is where I am. It's not just the buffs. Sage seems also low on the priority when my skill points are better spent on so many other skills.
Part of the problem is that The Silent Pantheon (mana regen buff) is random and dependent on the group being aware of buff zones.
Losing the passive buffs is less of an issue IMO, since you could get one buff back immediately by timing it right. So I'm down 2 stacks for 30 sec and 1 stack for 30 sec.
Even after those incoming "buffs" I would consider spending only ONE talent point on sagas, IF and only IF that meant I could get access to ANY 1 saga out of 7.
The current double talent point dip just to unlock the Volume II, and the insane talent cost to actually cast some of those will be never justifiable. Especially when Intrepid takes away the free and quick talent respec.
Blown past falling sands…
Ya the second click is a pain point. So many needed clicks are necessary as a Bard. More then any other class.
My good sir, you ask the impossible.
@Intrepid: Sagas are wasted skill tree space, for all the reasons he said. Please throw us a bone to go with all the nerfs you've got coming our way.