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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Taking my turn giving feedback
BigScorch
Member, Alpha Two
Hello, I’m a big fan of what Ashes of Creation has done. I’ve played a few weeks, and looking forward very much to the next phase.
I want to take my turn giving feedback. A lot of this feedback is likely bias to my nostalgia from playing Everquest and New World, which the game obviously draws some inspiration from. I also might repeat other feedback, I have not read everything there is, and I doubt all these ideas are original.
1: Combat
I’ve played Clerics, and Mage, and with a Tank so far. I have only reached level 15, so I’m sure there is still a lot I don’t know, but I have unlocked and experimented with most abilities in PVE.
Clerics:
Positives:
I’m loving the variety of healing spell mechanics to choose from. I have my favorites, and I feel like I have a lot of choices and a learning curve to getting good at using them. The cleric can also put out a large amount of healing, giving the tanks and teams the ability to survive tough and exciting fights.
Negatives::
While the cleric is good at healing, it doesn’t have a lot of flexibility in role. I can solo a lot of PVE by just outliving the opponent, healing myself while it dies to my tickles. I’ve seen similar feedback in other threads, but to ask for something specific I would like to be able to choose more aggressive options. Not an infinite gradient, but perhaps I can choose if Judgment is better at doing damage, or better at healing. Perhaps I could sacrifice 75% of an AOE healing ability to instead do 25% healing and 75% damage instead. Never as good as a DPS character, but the ability to choose to be aggressive at the sacrifice of some defensive abilities. In general a mutually exclusive choice of being aggressive or defensive.
Tanks:
Positives:
I’ve been pairing my Cleric in PVE with a friend that plays Tank. The tank does a good job in the PVE content I’ve seen so far doing tank things. It can hold aggro (at least at our level) and it can control the flow of battle.
Negatives:
Like the cleric, its attacks often feel like tickles. And like the cleric, I think some choices that allow the tank to choose more damage over durability would make the class a lot more fun to play, especially solo. I also think some additional abilities helping it survive poor situations would be good. For example, I think a fun choice would be an ability that freezes the tank in place, temporarily sacrificing its ability to control the flow of combat for a short burst of regen that ends when field control resumes. Or a temporary grapple ability to let it stop an opponent from doing damage for a bit at the sacrifice of not doing damage themselves. It doesn’t have to be these things specifically, but the class definitely needs a more aggressive build option. It also does not need to be a DPS character like the warrior. Its role should remain controlling the flow of battle, not being the source of damage. But like the cleric it needs a choice between high defense or high offensive abilities.
2: PVP
I have not experienced a lot of PVP yet. A lot of what I have experienced has been griefing, either directly or indirectly. I really like the idea of a world where PVP is always an option, while at the same time this is the feature that poses the most risk for long term abuse.
The positive:
The best use-case I’ve experienced myself is when I got into competition for spawns and the other team decided to push us out by attacking us. I could choose between attacking back, calling their bluff that they would actually risk corruption killing me, or leave, and we chose to leave. I’ve been in so many situations in other games where competition for resources becomes scarce and you don’t have a lot of options, and the PVP here gives you that option.
I also really like that you don’t lose a whole ton if you do PVP and die. If someone does kill me and take 20% of the resources I picked up since last in town, its not generally horrible. And if I pick up something really valuable I can choose to continue with it on me or decide to go safely bank it.
The negative:
When I run caravans, its intimidating when level 25’s walk up and inspect me to decide if they want my things. With a 10+ level gap, there would not be much of a fight. I’ve also seen players abuse PVP, clearly only choosing opponents that have little chance in fighting back. The game needs some way of ensuring that defenders have at least a small chance to defend themselves, perhaps with level delta handicaps, or that attackers have to decide to engage or not before knowing if it is going to be safe for them, like hiding the level information on potential PVP targets like solo caravans.
For caravans specifically, to keep high levels from picking on low levels, I think that the rewards for caravans (and PVP in general) should scale with the level difference. If you are level 25, and you kill a level 5, do you really need all their loot? If you kill a level 2, do you need loot at all? I would argue they shouldn’t even drop it.
The corruption system sounds really good. I don’t kill players in general, especially those who don’t want to PVP, so I’ve never experienced corruption myself, but if corruption is intended to dissuade players from engaging in abusive pvp, then at some point there should also be just a hard limit on it. All of the ideas I have for limits are too complex to work, so here I can only point at the problem.
From watching others play, I also think the game needs PVP safe zones. Like the newbie spawn, or within 20 meters of a respawn node for freshly spawned players.
The could be better:
Looting other peoples bodies is an interesting feature I’m still getting used to. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea, but it is missing a lot of features.
1: I think the timer on how long a body lasts is a bit short, I’ve been on a team that left a body not looted so they could get it back, and it despawned as they approached.
2: I think there should be a permission system where you can have a friend pick up your belongings without stealing them. OR:
3: I think there should be a time window right before it despawns where others can loot it without stealing, and there should be visual indicator for when this happens.
4: I think it would be good to get a notification when someone steals your body so you know who to go after later. And the PVP timer from the perspective of the person who got robbed should be longer than the general PVP flag that triggers from stealing. Maybe even flag them on the map.
3: Griefing
I’ve experienced a bit of griefing, and it felt bad. The primary example was a pair of someones who came through HH at level 20, and trained mobs on groups and disconnected, then reconnected and looted bodies. We called out in global for other high players to get them, but they simply logged off for the day once they were actually threatened.
I think the ability to instantly disconnect was key to their ability to grief. I imagine something like this is already planned, but I think this could be fixed by not allowing instant disconnect. A player who disconnects should remain standing in place for a while. They should not lose aggro on anything already aggressive to them, and anyone already in PVP with them should remain so. I would say that anyone not in PVP already can’t attack them, and new mob agro shouldn’t start so we don’t punish unintentional disconnects too harshly, but it should not be a tool to kill other players. I also think you should not be able to loot bodies of players that died while you were disconnected.
4: Copper
On my server, copper is very hard to get a hold of. There several large guilds with standing orders to collect it for their crafters, and smaller guilds and independent players have it rough sometimes. I don’t want to stop large guilds from using their manpower to collect resources, but I do wish for changes to how copper is found.
I’ll start by guessing on how the current system works. I think what is happening is resources have fixed areas where they can appear, with small variances in location, and every few hours a blank, granite, or basalt resource node has a chance to be replaced. There are more resources in populated paths, and fewer resources off trail. This gives players just traveling around a reasonable chance to spot and collect a valuable ore.
What I would like to suggest is that resource nodes instead become a reward for exploration. Instead of localized groupings of resources, they should be evenly spread throughout the world except for exclusion zones like directly on paths, or in cities, or in specific areas of dungeons where it wouldn’t make sense. The more they are hidden between rock outcroppings and in bushes and off the beaten path the better. This would give players reasons to go exploring and find areas of the map that are generally unpopulated. It also gives them reason to check between rocks and behind bushes. It would reduce the chance of just seeing them as you travel the main paths, but I think thats a good thing. Instead of being something lucky that happens to you when you are not looking for it, it becomes a reward for exploration.
This would also still allow large guilds to spend their manpower dominating the resource, but improve the likelihood there is still copper to find when smaller guilds and players go looking.
5: Crafting
I have not gotten very far in crafting, but I’m already addicted. I really like how crafted items are actually valuable to yourself and other players, and a lot of my complaints are from the game just still being in alpha. Looking forward to where gathering, processing and crafting go in the future, and especially excited about features around the player stores and player trades.
7: My Wish List
Lastly my wishlist of things I hope to see in this game over the next couple years.
1: Classes with pets, and classes meant for soloing more than grouping. I think it would be perfectly fine to have classes that are meant for solo play and not really desired in small groups.
2: More rewards for exploration. I mentioned spreading mining nodes above, but any time there is a reward for going out and exploring, or parkouring up onto places not necessarily meant for it is a good thing.
3: Lots of mini map and main map features:
Mobs that agro on you should show on the minimap more consistently.
You should be able to share waypoints with your group.
Group member icons to be more visible and distinguishable.
Quest markers and group members outside mini map view should snap to edge.
I should be able to draw paths on the map and share them.
4: In game decorative, or light utility pets. Perhaps pets that help you find nearby resource nodes you might otherwise accidentally walk by. Or ones that carry a bit of materials for you. Or ones that cuddle you while you sit for a small mana/health regen. Or ones that just provide small mini games like catch to pass downtime while you are LFG.
I want to take my turn giving feedback. A lot of this feedback is likely bias to my nostalgia from playing Everquest and New World, which the game obviously draws some inspiration from. I also might repeat other feedback, I have not read everything there is, and I doubt all these ideas are original.
1: Combat
I’ve played Clerics, and Mage, and with a Tank so far. I have only reached level 15, so I’m sure there is still a lot I don’t know, but I have unlocked and experimented with most abilities in PVE.
Clerics:
Positives:
I’m loving the variety of healing spell mechanics to choose from. I have my favorites, and I feel like I have a lot of choices and a learning curve to getting good at using them. The cleric can also put out a large amount of healing, giving the tanks and teams the ability to survive tough and exciting fights.
Negatives::
While the cleric is good at healing, it doesn’t have a lot of flexibility in role. I can solo a lot of PVE by just outliving the opponent, healing myself while it dies to my tickles. I’ve seen similar feedback in other threads, but to ask for something specific I would like to be able to choose more aggressive options. Not an infinite gradient, but perhaps I can choose if Judgment is better at doing damage, or better at healing. Perhaps I could sacrifice 75% of an AOE healing ability to instead do 25% healing and 75% damage instead. Never as good as a DPS character, but the ability to choose to be aggressive at the sacrifice of some defensive abilities. In general a mutually exclusive choice of being aggressive or defensive.
Tanks:
Positives:
I’ve been pairing my Cleric in PVE with a friend that plays Tank. The tank does a good job in the PVE content I’ve seen so far doing tank things. It can hold aggro (at least at our level) and it can control the flow of battle.
Negatives:
Like the cleric, its attacks often feel like tickles. And like the cleric, I think some choices that allow the tank to choose more damage over durability would make the class a lot more fun to play, especially solo. I also think some additional abilities helping it survive poor situations would be good. For example, I think a fun choice would be an ability that freezes the tank in place, temporarily sacrificing its ability to control the flow of combat for a short burst of regen that ends when field control resumes. Or a temporary grapple ability to let it stop an opponent from doing damage for a bit at the sacrifice of not doing damage themselves. It doesn’t have to be these things specifically, but the class definitely needs a more aggressive build option. It also does not need to be a DPS character like the warrior. Its role should remain controlling the flow of battle, not being the source of damage. But like the cleric it needs a choice between high defense or high offensive abilities.
2: PVP
I have not experienced a lot of PVP yet. A lot of what I have experienced has been griefing, either directly or indirectly. I really like the idea of a world where PVP is always an option, while at the same time this is the feature that poses the most risk for long term abuse.
The positive:
The best use-case I’ve experienced myself is when I got into competition for spawns and the other team decided to push us out by attacking us. I could choose between attacking back, calling their bluff that they would actually risk corruption killing me, or leave, and we chose to leave. I’ve been in so many situations in other games where competition for resources becomes scarce and you don’t have a lot of options, and the PVP here gives you that option.
I also really like that you don’t lose a whole ton if you do PVP and die. If someone does kill me and take 20% of the resources I picked up since last in town, its not generally horrible. And if I pick up something really valuable I can choose to continue with it on me or decide to go safely bank it.
The negative:
When I run caravans, its intimidating when level 25’s walk up and inspect me to decide if they want my things. With a 10+ level gap, there would not be much of a fight. I’ve also seen players abuse PVP, clearly only choosing opponents that have little chance in fighting back. The game needs some way of ensuring that defenders have at least a small chance to defend themselves, perhaps with level delta handicaps, or that attackers have to decide to engage or not before knowing if it is going to be safe for them, like hiding the level information on potential PVP targets like solo caravans.
For caravans specifically, to keep high levels from picking on low levels, I think that the rewards for caravans (and PVP in general) should scale with the level difference. If you are level 25, and you kill a level 5, do you really need all their loot? If you kill a level 2, do you need loot at all? I would argue they shouldn’t even drop it.
The corruption system sounds really good. I don’t kill players in general, especially those who don’t want to PVP, so I’ve never experienced corruption myself, but if corruption is intended to dissuade players from engaging in abusive pvp, then at some point there should also be just a hard limit on it. All of the ideas I have for limits are too complex to work, so here I can only point at the problem.
From watching others play, I also think the game needs PVP safe zones. Like the newbie spawn, or within 20 meters of a respawn node for freshly spawned players.
The could be better:
Looting other peoples bodies is an interesting feature I’m still getting used to. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea, but it is missing a lot of features.
1: I think the timer on how long a body lasts is a bit short, I’ve been on a team that left a body not looted so they could get it back, and it despawned as they approached.
2: I think there should be a permission system where you can have a friend pick up your belongings without stealing them. OR:
3: I think there should be a time window right before it despawns where others can loot it without stealing, and there should be visual indicator for when this happens.
4: I think it would be good to get a notification when someone steals your body so you know who to go after later. And the PVP timer from the perspective of the person who got robbed should be longer than the general PVP flag that triggers from stealing. Maybe even flag them on the map.
3: Griefing
I’ve experienced a bit of griefing, and it felt bad. The primary example was a pair of someones who came through HH at level 20, and trained mobs on groups and disconnected, then reconnected and looted bodies. We called out in global for other high players to get them, but they simply logged off for the day once they were actually threatened.
I think the ability to instantly disconnect was key to their ability to grief. I imagine something like this is already planned, but I think this could be fixed by not allowing instant disconnect. A player who disconnects should remain standing in place for a while. They should not lose aggro on anything already aggressive to them, and anyone already in PVP with them should remain so. I would say that anyone not in PVP already can’t attack them, and new mob agro shouldn’t start so we don’t punish unintentional disconnects too harshly, but it should not be a tool to kill other players. I also think you should not be able to loot bodies of players that died while you were disconnected.
4: Copper
On my server, copper is very hard to get a hold of. There several large guilds with standing orders to collect it for their crafters, and smaller guilds and independent players have it rough sometimes. I don’t want to stop large guilds from using their manpower to collect resources, but I do wish for changes to how copper is found.
I’ll start by guessing on how the current system works. I think what is happening is resources have fixed areas where they can appear, with small variances in location, and every few hours a blank, granite, or basalt resource node has a chance to be replaced. There are more resources in populated paths, and fewer resources off trail. This gives players just traveling around a reasonable chance to spot and collect a valuable ore.
What I would like to suggest is that resource nodes instead become a reward for exploration. Instead of localized groupings of resources, they should be evenly spread throughout the world except for exclusion zones like directly on paths, or in cities, or in specific areas of dungeons where it wouldn’t make sense. The more they are hidden between rock outcroppings and in bushes and off the beaten path the better. This would give players reasons to go exploring and find areas of the map that are generally unpopulated. It also gives them reason to check between rocks and behind bushes. It would reduce the chance of just seeing them as you travel the main paths, but I think thats a good thing. Instead of being something lucky that happens to you when you are not looking for it, it becomes a reward for exploration.
This would also still allow large guilds to spend their manpower dominating the resource, but improve the likelihood there is still copper to find when smaller guilds and players go looking.
5: Crafting
I have not gotten very far in crafting, but I’m already addicted. I really like how crafted items are actually valuable to yourself and other players, and a lot of my complaints are from the game just still being in alpha. Looking forward to where gathering, processing and crafting go in the future, and especially excited about features around the player stores and player trades.
7: My Wish List
Lastly my wishlist of things I hope to see in this game over the next couple years.
1: Classes with pets, and classes meant for soloing more than grouping. I think it would be perfectly fine to have classes that are meant for solo play and not really desired in small groups.
2: More rewards for exploration. I mentioned spreading mining nodes above, but any time there is a reward for going out and exploring, or parkouring up onto places not necessarily meant for it is a good thing.
3: Lots of mini map and main map features:
Mobs that agro on you should show on the minimap more consistently.
You should be able to share waypoints with your group.
Group member icons to be more visible and distinguishable.
Quest markers and group members outside mini map view should snap to edge.
I should be able to draw paths on the map and share them.
4: In game decorative, or light utility pets. Perhaps pets that help you find nearby resource nodes you might otherwise accidentally walk by. Or ones that carry a bit of materials for you. Or ones that cuddle you while you sit for a small mana/health regen. Or ones that just provide small mini games like catch to pass downtime while you are LFG.
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Comments
Greetings!
Thank you for adding your thoughts and observations to the forums! A lot of your ideas were interesting and thought-worthy, so I'll just pop in to comment on some of your feedback that I feel need a second spin.
Regarding the negatives of PvP - while I sincerely understand where you come from regarding the perspective of low level caravans, I think it would be a massive mistake to give loot protection to lower levels. This would be abused by low level caravan alts to no end.
I am not quite sure what a good fix would be - if there should be any at all - but I feel very confident that lower level protection would not result in anything good in the long run. If anything, I am fairly certain this problem will solve itself at launch when the entire map opens up; and thus players spread out more.
1) The summoner ( https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Summoner ) will have summons, and might be something you'll be interested in. As for pets in general, these will not be class specific. The plan at the moment is that they are, similar to mounts and beasts of burden, tied to animal husbandry and/or hunting. Any class can "equip" these pets as items, but they sacrifice part of their personal power for it. (Read more here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Combat_pets )
2) There are more treasure maps and other exploration stuff coming up!
3) Agreed.
4) I believe stuff like this will mainly be a feature of the summoner, but combat pets (see the link above) might provide similar features at a lesser rate! :]
I think I mixed two pieces of feedback here. I would only give low level loot protections to low level players in player vs player combat. Not caravans. I agree that encouraging low level caravan alts would be bad. I just want to discourage level 20's harvesting groups of level 10's at grinding spots without risk.
For caravans the only ideas I have so far would be 1: A handicap on damage/defense so damaging a low level player isn't as easy as damaging a low level mob. Don't give the low level an advantage, just some defense to reduce the impact of the level disparity. or 2: Hide the level of the player steering the caravan or raft so the attack decision has to be made before you know if the person you are attacking is a threat or an easy target.
I agree that neither would fully solve the problem. And perhaps now isn't the right time in the development cycle to try to fix it. I think something will eventually need to be done though as the level cap increases. When level 50's start seeing level solo 20 caravans someday, things are going to get tense very quickly.
This is cool stuff, thanks for sharing!
I didn't know about combat pets or summoners when I suggested this. I'm looking forward to see how those get implemented. I think there still might be value in utility or decoration pets would be a lot of fun regardless. And a good skin/appearance/animation purchase option to spend store points on. Most of my family would love a "Cuddle while recovering mana" animation or "Play fetch" function, and if it was also cute ... well I'm glad the game won't always be $120!
Maybe I'll be able to play fetch with my combat pet bear some day