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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Dwarf-flip is awful.
Sigmund
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
The Dwarf-flip: Defies physics, especially when you jump backwards. In plate armor. Makes dwarves silly and comedic instead of the lovable grumping curmudgeons of fantasy. Garden gnomes.
Trying to imagine when in a dwarf's early life he had time to study acrobatics while mining and marching under the mountain.
Gimli, Gloin, Bombur, Thorin and Flippywoo.
Return some dignity to the Dunir by keeping their feet on the ground!
Trying to imagine when in a dwarf's early life he had time to study acrobatics while mining and marching under the mountain.
Gimli, Gloin, Bombur, Thorin and Flippywoo.
Return some dignity to the Dunir by keeping their feet on the ground!
Certainly NOT coveting the lost treasures of Dünheim.
12
Comments
A long discussion
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49663/not-really-feeling-the-whole-front-flip-dwarfs/p1
But now I've seen footage that basic jumps front flip in any direction even when moving backwards which make absolutely no fkn sense in any facet. While sprint jumping removes the flip and looks normal and "better"
I'd be happy to compromise and make the sprint jump front flip forward and make all other jumps normal.
We've seen both animations the only problem is they should be the other way around to make any sense at all.
Yes. It looks stupid. Less of an issue as they did not so it 100% of the time though. Blood elves have a spin. Worgens also have a flip.
Dwarf flip in EQ was a forward roll (See 52 seconds), not a flip. I'm not 100% certain but I think when they updated the character models it did become a flip, and if my memory isn't failing me there, then I dislike it for the same reasons I'm about to list for the Dunir flips.
Now, I personally don't think dwarven coded races should be doing mid air acrobatics at all in the first place because it seems to defy every other aspect of racial lore built into that type of race, but if they're gonna flip at *least* let it look like it conforms to the laws of physics.
The current animation just looks really really bad. It looks completely disjointed and unnatural, and that would be the case whether or not the character was a Dunir. Somehow the character does no pre-jump body positioning, then jumps into the air at an angle not conducive towards doing a front flip, then tucks and flips at a much faster animation speed than the initial jump was, then untucks, completely halts their rotational momentum, and continues to move in a slower animation until it lands.
It's just not how people doing on the run flips actually move.
Gymnastics: (See 0:52) If I had to guess, this is the type of flip they made their animations based off of, as it's the most similar, but the in game animations completely misses there significant amount of body positioning that happens prior to the initiation of the flip.
Parkour: (See 11:23) Again, there is significant body positioning prior to the flip.
Parkour 2: (See 4:40) again, pre-positioning of the body.
Also, --And this might be the most important part-- in all of the above cases, the flip occurs from the moment the person leaves the ground. It's not something that starts after they're already mid air and then somehow also stops while they're still midair.
So is there a good example of an on the move front flip that takes into consideration the fact that it's going to be *really hard* to animate all of the body positioning required to jump according to physics, but also shows a front flip that accounts for the fact that the body should be rotating from the second it leaves the ground until the second it lands again? Somewhat ironically, WoW's Night Elves are a perfect example of this 0:10 onward. So, IMO if we want the Dunir to flip, we need to admit that we're giving them the Night Elf treatment.
tl;dr Dunir front flips make no sense lore-wise, but if we have to tolerate it please make it at least look good.
Dwarves have always been a stoic and sturdy race, specially mountain dwarves like the Dunir are supposed to be. If you want to give flips to Dwarves, the best race to do that with is the Nikua, it would give them something more to set them apart.
Either way, it gives me a reason to not play this race, which doesn't bother me one bit. In general, I think the flip should be race/class specific and depending on race and class combination it is either a flip or a spin. That's just me though.
This also a DnD thing. Just about every race could do acrobatics it was included in there combat skills as well. This was also something the dwarves could do. Matter of fact in real life dwarves to acrobatics there in the Special Olympics doing it in raal life. I don't see the problem where a race of dwarves like to do front flips. I think we're really nitpicking here if this is worthy of a thread.
Make it a barrel roll instead because they be in that tube brah surfin that gnar.
NE flip was random not every jump. EQ dwarf jumping was an easter egg abilty not basic kit.
Already tried to explain why a race of mountain climbing mineshaft digging people would never flip jump...Mostly because the beards would make it impossible to tuck
The Nikua would make more sense for a flippy race (water/beach/tribal/freedom)...I made this suggestion they would be better suited for acrobatics.
As of now the Dunir are being treated like a joke and I hate it, it goes against everything the Lore implies. And the only justification is the EQ dev has got some fetish for it and somehow that makes it justifiable.
My biggest issue now other the front flipping backwards. Is that sprint jumping is normal non flip.
Which totally negates the argument that the flip is required for distance and height. Both argument were already **** in the first place. But now we have this situation where Dunir have a normal jump animation as well as the mandatory flip.
SO to appease everyone (those who like it and those who dont) Just make the flip work forwards when sprinting (more believable) and have the normal jump for non sprinting...aka basic jump.
surely this makes sense...
Any person doing front flips in real life has spent a significant amount of time acquiring the skill, it's not just something all humans can randomly do because we're humans. If the front flip animation was unlocked based on a character acquiring certain acrobatic type skills, I would be fine with it. But making front flipping wildly through the air a base ability of a race whose lore includes literally "diggy diggy tunnel", hefting and wielding massive hammers, enjoying spending time in cramped underground places, and generally valuing being very grounded and practical? That makes no sense.
Meanwhile as others have mentioned, the Nikua already have established lore that would fit with flipping around. They're already coded as free spirits, and thought of the mountains as a literal prison. They're the kind of people who just might have the kind of free time where everyone just learns to front flip as a child.
When I picture the Dunir, I picture Eddie Hall. I think most people thinking of Dunir/Dwarves are thinking of similarly stount and strong people. The Nikua racial description makes me picture someone more like Simone Biles, personally. I could see the Nikua frontflipping randomly. I just can't with the Dunir.
This would be great as an easter egg, or a "customizable" animation. Off/random/on settings. Possibly even gated by stats and armor type. IE, you need high str/dex to flip in plate armor.
The game has its own physics system that things in the game are subject to. So yes there's magic, and we can suspect our disbelief when a mage floats around doing AOE, but there's also gravity. The argument against Dunir being the race that flips is mostly aesthetic and lore focused, but the argument for how God aweful the animation looks is based on it defying the physics that everything else in the game is subject too.
Even if you like the concept of dwarves forced to be acrobats. Don't half bake it and make the front flip animation work when strafe jumping sideways because that should be a cartwheel and not make jumping backwards a backflip...It looks crap otherwise. The animation is not great. it hitches on surfaces and looks weird when you grab a ledge midflip...
Then you have moments when the jump is normal (like every other race) and I'm thinking why can't this be it as base and have the sprint jump forwards a front flip because sprint jumping is normal jump (so the argument the flip is needed for distance and height is dead) ...because you know logical reasons.
The because 'its magic' is a lame take and you should be ashamed for implying it.
I don't like it... It does not fit in with the Dunir Lore or aesthetic. But if it now has to be a thing because Intrepid had a EQ dev with an Easter egg compulsion and is trying to force feed it like it was good Friday everyday.
Then at least make it make sense and have the sprint jump forwards the front flip and all other jumps normal PLEASE.
Yep For whatever reason the flip stopped for me and now I know normal jump for Dunir exists...and it looks fine.
I don't front flip jumping side to side or jumping backwards...
If you want keep the flip and have it make actual sense code it for the the sprint jump running forwards...Because right now Sprint jumping is normal and normal jumping sometimes flips and sometimes does not for the player or another onlooker...
In other words it currently does not work as intended all the time, looks dumb (subjective), makes no cognitive sense (flip normal but not sprint), is lore inappropriate big beards living on precarious mountains and mine shafts. Flip animation interferes with terrain objects and does not transition with wall climbing in any aesthetically pleasing way.
So Again for clarity... If this Dunir acrobatic nonsense has to be a thing (becuase it would make more sense with the Nikua) then have it coded to sprint jump forwards.