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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Tank Worst class - Phase 1/2 Thoughts - Something needs to be done.
Yatty
Member, Alpha Two
This will be a long one, This is main focus on the Tank Archetype and my opinion on it right now.
I have gotten to level 25 on both phases in the span of 3-4 days each time. Tank is NOT fun atm, Gear repair costs, glint loss on death, EXP gain on death is alot more often on tanks than other classes. This phase i was down 1,6 Mil EXP compared to someone else in My CP (Constant party/Static party) and we leveled same time togheter.
Got past experiences with tanks in other MMOS and i have to say, this one has ALOT of potential but def seems to lack what I think a tank should have/be like.
Tanks cant really solo farm like DPS and hence cant really farm Glint which makes one wanna make a new character but leveling that is not fun. And throughout Phase 1 there were shadow nerfs after shadown nerfs (nerfing Grit and Iron aura without mentioning it in patch notes)
TLDR: Tank cant solo farm, tank loses EXP and gold + Repair costs, tank dmg is below any classes by a landslide and with the constant nerfs on mitigation and gear nerfs its in the gutter when comes to tank, all you need is a strong cleric and a dogopopotank and you're fine.
Tank Cooldowns are too long with low Impact.
Current abilities and Rework ideas
Grit
Grit gives 5-8% mitigation, reduces dmg and increases threat gain.
Change to 10-15% Flat mitigation and/or also grant CC resistance.
As it stands it gives as much mitigation as Bear mark from Ranger and you dont lose dmg
and dmg on tank right now is behind by a landslide. It was 15% flat mitigation but got nerfed.
UPDATE: its 25% Dmg decrease to 15%. Tool tip is wrong
Iron Aura
Grants 2%(1%or less) mitigation to you and allies within 3 dwarf shoulderlenght
Increase range?
Maybe make it grant MAX HP to tank and higher dmg reduction to allies in a larger range?
Taunt
Gives Humiliation to target and 5k hp = 10k Threat.
Make it more Fixation on the tank? getting HP rn on tank is rough.
Aegis
Gives allies 20% Dmg redirection to tank within 10m.
Add a bigger range more like 20m-30m?
Reflect
Single target Reflect where you still take dmg and it can trip/gain mana Once. 100-800% reflected back
Option 1: Keep as is but add a secondary path to skill into at the cost of locking you in on that path.
Left is single target focused (as it is right now) and right is more turning it into a Reflect dmg for x amount of seconds. either flat 100%-200% or something scaling of Con/ment/Hp/Armor/MagicResist.
Option 2: rename current reflect to parry/Counter measure or something and make a new skill with the name reflect or something else. Where it works as mentioned above.
Reflect 100%-200% dmg back for x amount of time in the directions the tank is looking and take 50-75% less dmg while holding down ability. This will help both PvE and PvP large scale.
If people turn of brain and attack tank while reflect is on they should get punished, It wont give tank a just flat dmg its more required that they are currently being attacked.
Wall
This one i Love but also feel like could be more. I think it should act as a Windwall like Yasou in League of Legends. Actually block Projectiles that touches it. And or Increase its actuall wall size! Has many uses and i love it.
Vengeance
Do lil dmg - gain tiny shield - do alil bit threat but lose mitigation
Add If used when recently recieved dmg gain shield (more than 10hp) and/or do % dmg back? (lets say you take dmg from 3 different abilities you can deal 40% of that dmg back if used within 1-2 seconds of recieving it. but obvi add a longer cd than what it is
Intercept
Dash to ally gain 8% hp shield and give or self cast and gain 12% shield.
Mage shield is 30-50% Hp as it scales of magic power and its more than tank and will just keep scaling.
HP stat on tank right now is not easy to get.
Absorption Field
Grant shield equal to 20% of a persons Max hp. Once.
+ Speed up animation takes to long to cast
+ Make it so it also gives flat % mitigation/Defensive stats
+ Decrease CD if no buffs to it.
Indomitable Spirit
30% increase to max HP and 30% more healing recieved for 15s
Increase duration by another 5 seconds so 40 seconds its off cd.
Make it castable even when CC'ed so it works well with Shake it off.
Slam
Increase the area of dmg and make it more visually appealing right now its like a light shoulder tap within a wrists reach.
Protect
I LOVE protect, very good dont change.
Tomahawk
Doesnt fit as a tank as it functions right now atleast. with some adjusements to name and what it does will probly help.
will trip if behind someone. doesnt seem like something a tank would do.
Name - hammer throw/ shield throw idk
Either very short CC or a strong slow/root. so tank can either catch up to target or get a solid grapple in.
Tank right now aint fun, its been nerfed with both the gear squish and shadownerfs to Grit and Iron aura.
You will die, you will lose glint, you will have to repair gear and you will fall behind in EXP while also not feeling that tanky. More about a good cleric/bard than you being a good tank
Tank is also one of the least played classes in almost any MMO but is always a needed class for Group content etc. Players who play this class must have a few screws loose or just like pain and suffering
on a side note, blocking is hella useless. Saw some post about it and really liked this idea
I have gotten to level 25 on both phases in the span of 3-4 days each time. Tank is NOT fun atm, Gear repair costs, glint loss on death, EXP gain on death is alot more often on tanks than other classes. This phase i was down 1,6 Mil EXP compared to someone else in My CP (Constant party/Static party) and we leveled same time togheter.
Got past experiences with tanks in other MMOS and i have to say, this one has ALOT of potential but def seems to lack what I think a tank should have/be like.
Tanks cant really solo farm like DPS and hence cant really farm Glint which makes one wanna make a new character but leveling that is not fun. And throughout Phase 1 there were shadow nerfs after shadown nerfs (nerfing Grit and Iron aura without mentioning it in patch notes)
TLDR: Tank cant solo farm, tank loses EXP and gold + Repair costs, tank dmg is below any classes by a landslide and with the constant nerfs on mitigation and gear nerfs its in the gutter when comes to tank, all you need is a strong cleric and a dogopopotank and you're fine.
Tank Cooldowns are too long with low Impact.
Current abilities and Rework ideas
Grit
Grit gives 5-8% mitigation, reduces dmg and increases threat gain.
Change to 10-15% Flat mitigation and/or also grant CC resistance.
As it stands it gives as much mitigation as Bear mark from Ranger and you dont lose dmg
and dmg on tank right now is behind by a landslide. It was 15% flat mitigation but got nerfed.UPDATE: its 25% Dmg decrease to 15%. Tool tip is wrong
Iron Aura
Grants 2%(1%or less) mitigation to you and allies within 3 dwarf shoulderlenght
Increase range?
Maybe make it grant MAX HP to tank and higher dmg reduction to allies in a larger range?
Taunt
Gives Humiliation to target and 5k hp = 10k Threat.
Make it more Fixation on the tank? getting HP rn on tank is rough.
Aegis
Gives allies 20% Dmg redirection to tank within 10m.
Add a bigger range more like 20m-30m?
Reflect
Single target Reflect where you still take dmg and it can trip/gain mana Once. 100-800% reflected back
Option 1: Keep as is but add a secondary path to skill into at the cost of locking you in on that path.
Left is single target focused (as it is right now) and right is more turning it into a Reflect dmg for x amount of seconds. either flat 100%-200% or something scaling of Con/ment/Hp/Armor/MagicResist.
Option 2: rename current reflect to parry/Counter measure or something and make a new skill with the name reflect or something else. Where it works as mentioned above.
Reflect 100%-200% dmg back for x amount of time in the directions the tank is looking and take 50-75% less dmg while holding down ability. This will help both PvE and PvP large scale.
If people turn of brain and attack tank while reflect is on they should get punished, It wont give tank a just flat dmg its more required that they are currently being attacked.
Wall
This one i Love but also feel like could be more. I think it should act as a Windwall like Yasou in League of Legends. Actually block Projectiles that touches it. And or Increase its actuall wall size! Has many uses and i love it.
Vengeance
Do lil dmg - gain tiny shield - do alil bit threat but lose mitigation
Add If used when recently recieved dmg gain shield (more than 10hp) and/or do % dmg back? (lets say you take dmg from 3 different abilities you can deal 40% of that dmg back if used within 1-2 seconds of recieving it. but obvi add a longer cd than what it is
Intercept
Dash to ally gain 8% hp shield and give or self cast and gain 12% shield.
Mage shield is 30-50% Hp as it scales of magic power and its more than tank
and will just keep scaling.HP stat on tank right now is not easy to get.
Absorption Field
Grant shield equal to 20% of a persons Max hp. Once.
+ Speed up animation takes to long to cast
+ Make it so it also gives flat % mitigation/Defensive stats
+ Decrease CD if no buffs to it.
Indomitable Spirit
30% increase to max HP and 30% more healing recieved for 15s
Increase duration by another 5 seconds so 40 seconds its off cd.
Make it castable even when CC'ed so it works well with Shake it off.
Slam
Increase the area of dmg and make it more visually appealing right now its like a light shoulder tap within a wrists reach.
Protect
I LOVE protect, very good dont change.
Tomahawk
Doesnt fit as a tank as it functions right now atleast. with some adjusements to name and what it does will probly help.
will trip if behind someone. doesnt seem like something a tank would do.
Name - hammer throw/ shield throw idk
Either very short CC or a strong slow/root. so tank can either catch up to target or get a solid grapple in.
Tank right now aint fun, its been nerfed with both the gear squish and shadownerfs to Grit and Iron aura.
You will die, you will lose glint, you will have to repair gear and you will fall behind in EXP while also not feeling that tanky. More about a good cleric/bard than you being a good tank
Tank is also one of the least played classes in almost any MMO but is always a needed class for Group content etc. Players who play this class must have a few screws loose
or just like pain and sufferingon a side note, blocking is hella useless. Saw some post about it and really liked this idea
Active blocking has a very high cost: not attacking, not using skills, walking slower and consuming stamina per blocked blow. Therefore it should be something extremely efficient to offset all the cost of you actively raising the shield.
My suggestions are:
1) Perfect guard
A passive in which if we block at the exact moment of the enemy's attack, we would mitigate 100% damage and have a reduction in the stamina cost for blocking this specific attack
2) Battle exhaustion
In the first 3 seconds of blocking attacks, our stamina cost will be reduced. However, from that time on, our stamina cost becomes progressively higher until it becomes a continuous cost (like when we run) of stamina, forcing us to lower the shield again.
I believe that these two changes would bring more significance to active blocking and more action elements for combat, which is precisely AoC's proposal, to have a hybrid combat
7
Comments
Same, been a mainstream tank for many years in many games but this one makes me wanna jump on mage or Cleric/Bard. Tank is so useless/Feels so bad right now
If tanks are going to do so little damage than there has to be a trade off. Way more CC breaks that are built into other abilities. High mobility to re-engage. The tank needs to be that tic and you can't shake off. As it stands it's just an easy CC Kite/kill for every class in the game. Being hopelessly kited is not fun, it's just as bad as a stunlock until death IMO.
I don't wanna hear the group based balance argument because nothing makes tanks benefit a group except being a good punching bag in PvE content. When PvP groups are being put together no one cares if there is a tank in their group, they want a healer and a bard, the end. On top of all that no one wants two tanks in an 8 man group but will take 2 or 3 of every other class. (broken)
I have mained a tank in every MMO except this one. The tank class feels like it takes twice the skill level and effort to impact the game compared to every other class. That is a horrible concept and not a fun experience.
I’ve been tanking in MMOs for years and have leveled several tanks into the 20s in Ashes of Creation. It’s clear the class has major issues. Tanks die far more often than other classes. Even with a solid, experienced group, I die more than anyone else. In PUGs, it’s even worse.
Leveling as a tank is slower, costlier, and less rewarding. I earn 20–30% less XP, 50–75% less glint, and spend most of my money on repairs. Magical damage, especially from fire caster NPCs, is a major weakness. If a healer isn’t 100% focused, I die, losing glint, silver, and progress. Compared to other classes like mage or ranger, tanking is all risk and little reward.
I am sure you guys have lots of ideas on how to adjust this. I look at the tank/healer dynamic as a circuit model where the healer is the battery and the tank is a RC circuit in front of the battery and damage is current. Resistance is the mitigation tools the tank has to reduce damage ( current ) and Total hitpoints is the capacitance of the circuit. What I am observing is that when i die, healers are frequently full or decent mana ( battery charge ). Usually it's due to a spike in damage ( current ). Therefore, just increasing resistance will only help so much. An increase in capacitance ( hitpoints) would help smooth out the current spikes and keep the circuit from browning out ( tank dies ). So to me, an increase in tank hitpoints is one potential viable adjustment to help smooth out the death rate problem. Just a thought.
Besides combat tweaks:
1) giving tanks a "field repair" ability to take the edge off repair costs would help reduce costs and get them out of a pinch where they have no money for repairs, but their gear is completely broken. A tank can't tank with broken gear...
2) Glint drop rate adjustments based on recent deaths for tanks. Lots of ways to do this.. will leave it to you... but if the tank is dying a bunch... lower the rate at which they drop glint or have a maximum drop% in a fixed period of time. Having NO glint feels bad and as a Tank that occurs frequently. Saying in 1 hour you shouldn't lose more than 75% of your glint would be an improvement.
3) Exp Debt rate for tanks. Similar to adjusting glint drop rate, adjust experience debt rate for multiple deaths or cap total experience loss per level at a certain amount. There have been times There are times I have died 10-20x over the course of an entire level.. most with he 4% hit that gets overcome in a few pulls then die again... so that gives you an idea on how much more experience the level actually took. Cap experience debt per level.. especially at lower level when PUG's are chaos and people dont know their classes yet.
I actively playing tank exclusively in solo and a bit in duo on this alpha.
I agree with some of the discussion here, but i totally disagree about the tank being weak in solo.
I can farm multiple monster of my lvl or solo 1-2 star up to 3 lvl above me.
My stuff is 100% blue/heroic with some +2.
So i agree that tank is not good with low lvl gear, but if you work a bit on your stuff, you'll become strong enough to easily solo the content and farm good golds.
I didn't try the other class.
Some of them seems a bit overpowered but that doesn't means that the tank is weak.
Tbh I would prefer one more nerf of all characters to make the content a bit more challenging or at least more mecanism of monster controling to develop some strategy instead of just pulling all the map on me and tank in aoe.
What I don't like in the tank is that
- tank is easily avoidable in party for a lot of content.
- some spell are not worth to use
- I personnaly don't like the ultimates -> i didn't tried all of them, but the tooltips don't attract me for the kind of build I want to do.
- All the class can wear heavy armor --> It should be exclusive for tanks archetype. We lose identity of the class atm.
- The magic resistance on heavy armor is a bit low. I get the point of the dev here, but I think they should reconsider to increase it a bit.
- we need a counter spell !!! It's so annoying to tank mage when there's multiple monster + it's frustrating to don't be able to counter cast heavy ability. We can't "dash" in some situation.
- there's not enough stance/aura --> we got 2 : one of it is nearly useless and the other one has a too huge debuff to use in normal content.
- They should add more combo with synergy between spells. maybe add more option linked to our special energy (I forgot how you call it here)
- using arrow is sometimes more usefull than playing with close combat weapon
What I like is
- the charge! LEEEEEEROY
- the multiple aoe abilities and damage
- the dwarves (ofc)
- the mobility in general (2 charges) + a good feeling on how the character react
- the min max possibilities of the equipment
sorry for the fault, my english is so rusty.
regards
- tank is easily avoidable in party for a lot of content.
! I do agree, a tanky cleric can do just aswell only problem would be aggro at times, or a fighter.
- some spell are not worth to use
! Yep. Some spells are really bad/Doesnt make sense
- I personnaly don't like the ultimates -> i didn't tried all of them, but the tooltips don't attract me for the kind of build I want to do.
! Tank CD's in general are too long for how little they do. 20% max shield on a 2 min CD while mages can have a 2k shield alot more often doesnt sit right. The Ground smash is.. under whelming, And so on.
- The magic resistance on heavy armor is a bit low. I get the point of the dev here, but I think they should reconsider to increase it a bit.
! I feel like there is an art form with mixing the gear. Im atm doing 3 heavy 5 light and 59.6% Phys Mitigation, 46.2% Magic Mitigation. Maybe im doing something wrong but tank is way to slow on killing grouped mobs than Fighter, Mage, Bard and cleric.
- there's not enough stance/aura --> we got 2 : one of it is nearly useless and the other one has a too huge debuff to use in normal content.
! Fully agree, the auras are very bad / really low impact.
I do really think that tank would feel alot better if the con maybe gave more hp? Or Pen getting fixed.
Just for me the tank doesnt feel like a tank personally.