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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Tanking has no incentives, only detriments to the player
Myaku
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Hi All!
I've been playing alpha two with a tank friend of mine, I'm a cleric. He always plays a tank in every game and is very skilled player. We are only lvl 9 but I can't imagine this problem gets fixed at higher levels.
Tldr: Being a tank is a costly, required and actively discouraged to play in open dungeons or group grinding. Fix death penalties for quick deaths in group play after being revived.
While we were killing bears at a cemetery we joined a group with another cleric and 4 DPS. We are all having a good time then it gets to night time and bam undead everywhere! It's chaos but the tank is doing a great job keeping aggro and kiting the skeleton evokers who put out that debuff that turns healing into damage. He dies a few times until me and the other cleric learn we need to remove the debuff and be careful around it. The group is having a blast and we fight undead the entire night trying to get as many bosses to spawn. It was hard and stressful but some of the most fun I've had in an MMO in a long time. Everyone got a good amount of glint, exp and loot due to farming it for an hour. Most of the group never died thanks to having two clerics and the very skilled tank, sometimes dying to save others when too much spawned, being quickly resurrected mid combat. It was a great flow between me and the other cleric, one reviving while the other kept the group alive. Unfortunately the tank would sometimes die back to back but saved the group by avoided a total party wipe. At dawn a lot more monsters spawned and the tank died 4 times in a row trying to manage everything but we do succeed without anyone else dying. We take our loot and leave after that all feeling great and had a fun time, or at least I thought everyone did.
In discord I asked the tank if he wants to go back to town, deposit or sell our glint to get better gear then he done for the night. He proceeds to give me what little loot he got from it due to losing basically all of it from dying protecting the group and says he can't play a tank ever in ashes unless they fix the materials you lose after dying, especially back to back. He said he had fun but playing a tank has no incentives and in fact is detrimental to making money or every wanting to craft.
While the rest of the group was having a fantastic time the tank was just miserable and more and more discouraged each death because to do his job it meant he gets less rewards. Tanks are almost always going to be the first to die, especially if ashes sticks with the more challenging fights, which I love. Their reward for keeping the group safe is less loot. If the class is required for most group content, needs the best most costly armor, and most likely to die.
This needs to be resolved in some manner or tanks will be some of the rarest classes, slowing grouping for everyone.
One possible solution would be if you die and are resurrected and die shortly after you should only drop 25% that can be picked up but not lose an additional 25% to the void. This wouldn't take away from pvp loot and allow the tank to retrieve the loot back if the group can defeat the monsters.
I've been playing alpha two with a tank friend of mine, I'm a cleric. He always plays a tank in every game and is very skilled player. We are only lvl 9 but I can't imagine this problem gets fixed at higher levels.
Tldr: Being a tank is a costly, required and actively discouraged to play in open dungeons or group grinding. Fix death penalties for quick deaths in group play after being revived.
While we were killing bears at a cemetery we joined a group with another cleric and 4 DPS. We are all having a good time then it gets to night time and bam undead everywhere! It's chaos but the tank is doing a great job keeping aggro and kiting the skeleton evokers who put out that debuff that turns healing into damage. He dies a few times until me and the other cleric learn we need to remove the debuff and be careful around it. The group is having a blast and we fight undead the entire night trying to get as many bosses to spawn. It was hard and stressful but some of the most fun I've had in an MMO in a long time. Everyone got a good amount of glint, exp and loot due to farming it for an hour. Most of the group never died thanks to having two clerics and the very skilled tank, sometimes dying to save others when too much spawned, being quickly resurrected mid combat. It was a great flow between me and the other cleric, one reviving while the other kept the group alive. Unfortunately the tank would sometimes die back to back but saved the group by avoided a total party wipe. At dawn a lot more monsters spawned and the tank died 4 times in a row trying to manage everything but we do succeed without anyone else dying. We take our loot and leave after that all feeling great and had a fun time, or at least I thought everyone did.
In discord I asked the tank if he wants to go back to town, deposit or sell our glint to get better gear then he done for the night. He proceeds to give me what little loot he got from it due to losing basically all of it from dying protecting the group and says he can't play a tank ever in ashes unless they fix the materials you lose after dying, especially back to back. He said he had fun but playing a tank has no incentives and in fact is detrimental to making money or every wanting to craft.
While the rest of the group was having a fantastic time the tank was just miserable and more and more discouraged each death because to do his job it meant he gets less rewards. Tanks are almost always going to be the first to die, especially if ashes sticks with the more challenging fights, which I love. Their reward for keeping the group safe is less loot. If the class is required for most group content, needs the best most costly armor, and most likely to die.
This needs to be resolved in some manner or tanks will be some of the rarest classes, slowing grouping for everyone.
One possible solution would be if you die and are resurrected and die shortly after you should only drop 25% that can be picked up but not lose an additional 25% to the void. This wouldn't take away from pvp loot and allow the tank to retrieve the loot back if the group can defeat the monsters.
4
Comments
If a farming group goes well, you still get less of everything than everyone else, but it's tolerable. If things go poorly its really discouraging.
This is well documented and well understood. I would assumes devs will change something. Otherwise it's down to group members handing glint to the tank when the PVE ends and hoping he gets to town without dying. It should be said this is a terrible solution to the problem.
One idea is to have the 25% material deletion and equipment damage only happen the moment you actually return to an emberspring, that way if the party can resurrect and save the situation no one actually loses anything.
Usually what happens is the tank dies, gets rezzed, tries to save things, dies again. Those types of fails are a 50% deletion of what you had at least, sometimes more because it may take some time to get back to where you were and your dropped portions disappear. Risk/reward sure but it is not balanced at all for tanks.