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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Crafting. Quality Rating and it's usefulness
RedsRichy
Member, Alpha Two
Hello everyone.
Recently posted some thoughts in Discrod but then I was asked to create a forum thread.
I conducted several tests on the item grading system and was quite puzzled by the data I received. I want to share a brief summary with you and hope that someone can confirm or refute my understanding of the "quality" mechanics.
The quality system is based on a linear dependency, where grades range from 0 to 600, spanning from common to legendary. Each hundred marks a change in color: 100 is white, 200 is green, 300 is blue, and so on.
I managed to create a model for some items that predicts the outcome with fairly good accuracy, so I want to use it as an example.
Let's suppose - creating an item requires 4 ingredients in different proportions, for instance, 1+1+10+1 = 13. In this case, each ingredient would account for approximately ~8% (100%/13) of the total. Depending on the color, a grade coefficient is applied to the item.
So, if I take 3 legendary ingredients and 10 common ones, the final quality would be calculated as follows:
This would result in a green item with an internal quality offset of +24% from the possible range of values(RoV).
Let me clarify upfront: this model currently does not account for certain variables present in the game, as I haven’t figured them out yet. When creating the same item with a total quality of exactly 400% by rearranging some ingredients, I sometimes get a heroic item with a minimal range offset and other times a rare item with a maximum offset.
I suspect the issue lies either in the type of data used for the formula on the game-backend or in floating-point arithmetic, which introduces a bit of chaos into the predictions. However, there might also be other explanations.
What is the RoV I mentioned earlier?
Let’s say an item has a "power rating" parameter ranging from 100 to 120. A 25% quality within that range would correspond to a parameter value of 105. Similarly, 50% would correspond to 110.
Better quality in this RoV can be increased in two ways: by using even more valuable ingredients or by equipping items that provide a "Craftname Quality Rating." Through experimentation, I discovered that ~20 Quality Rating is equivalent to 1% of RoV, and this upset me greatly. Let me explain why.
Let’s take, for example, the "Apprentice Leatherworker's Shirt" and the "Journeyman Leatherworker's Shirt."
Their Leatherworking Quality Ratings are:
Apprentice: 56–66 for the white grade, 211–275 for the legendary grade.
Journeyman: 92–107 for the white grade, 282–359 for the legendary grade.
The difficulty and effort required to craft these two items are currently disproportionate, but the final difference in terms of position in RoV appears to be very insignificant—only about ~4%.
Of course, when we’re talking about min-maxing, an 8% difference provided by two items is substantial, but is it really that significant in practical terms?
Let’s take a closer look.
Imagine we magically assemble a fully legendary Journeyman set (ignoring the rarity of leather) consisting of three items—jacket, pants, and belt—at the minimum RoV point. In total, we get:
282 + 307 + 267 = 856 rating, which equals approximately 42.8%. Now, we’re fancy and can afford to craft upgraded versions of these items.
Let’s start with the pants, which have a range of 307–392. With our 42.8%, the new value becomes 343, adding about ~1.8%. A bit of simplified mathematical approximation leads us to conclude that if we spend an extraordinary amount of resources on repeatedly crafting legendary items in leatherworking, tailoring, and armor smithing, we can eventually create a set whose total bonus approaches 50%(though it’s unlikely to actually reach that value).
But what do these 50% mean in relation to legendary items?
Let’s consider something like the Rosethorn Tunic.
Since we’re slightly below 50%, rounding will likely go downward, resulting in the following stats for our Rosethorn Tunic:
Naturally, we wear several items, and each one provides a bit of a benefit for character min-maxing. But even in this case, an approximate increase of +8 Intelligence compared to ~250+ is merely 3%, and the scale of this benefit seems catastrophically disproportionate to the required effort.
I really hope that I’m missing something and that you’ll tell me about it, but for now, I’m in a state of complete confusion. The only consolation is that we’re currently in 1/3 of the game’s progression, and the target items are, of course, level 50 gear. Perhaps a level 50 legendary set will provide +100% to quality, and in that case, it will be an entirely different conversation.
=====================================================
UPDATED 2025/01/16
The initial assumption was incorrect. The game uses a non-linear formula.
So instead of 100%, 200%, 300%... 600% we have thresholds:
1 - сommon
6 - uncommon
16 - rare
31 - heroic
51 - epic
71 - legendary
100 - legendary with best stats.
That means our Crafting Quality Rating would give us different impact on different tiers. If we will use Legendary Journeyman set, for example on uncommon reagents, we will get rare result. But if we will use it while crafting legendaty item, we will get only 30% of possible stat bonuses.
We have some basic calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QbSOHPcWPri-UE-NU_tEiZ1YI3-D-A_b1My-0_WTwYw/edit?gid=843461881#gid=843461881 feel free to use.
Recently posted some thoughts in Discrod but then I was asked to create a forum thread.
I conducted several tests on the item grading system and was quite puzzled by the data I received. I want to share a brief summary with you and hope that someone can confirm or refute my understanding of the "quality" mechanics.
The quality system is based on a linear dependency, where grades range from 0 to 600, spanning from common to legendary. Each hundred marks a change in color: 100 is white, 200 is green, 300 is blue, and so on.
I managed to create a model for some items that predicts the outcome with fairly good accuracy, so I want to use it as an example.
Let's suppose - creating an item requires 4 ingredients in different proportions, for instance, 1+1+10+1 = 13. In this case, each ingredient would account for approximately ~8% (100%/13) of the total. Depending on the color, a grade coefficient is applied to the item.
So, if I take 3 legendary ingredients and 10 common ones, the final quality would be calculated as follows:
3 * 8% * K_leg + 10 * 8% * K_com = 144% + 80% = 224%
where
K_leg = 6 for legendary items
K_com = 1 for common items
This would result in a green item with an internal quality offset of +24% from the possible range of values(RoV).
Let me clarify upfront: this model currently does not account for certain variables present in the game, as I haven’t figured them out yet. When creating the same item with a total quality of exactly 400% by rearranging some ingredients, I sometimes get a heroic item with a minimal range offset and other times a rare item with a maximum offset.
I suspect the issue lies either in the type of data used for the formula on the game-backend or in floating-point arithmetic, which introduces a bit of chaos into the predictions. However, there might also be other explanations.
What is the RoV I mentioned earlier?
Let’s say an item has a "power rating" parameter ranging from 100 to 120. A 25% quality within that range would correspond to a parameter value of 105. Similarly, 50% would correspond to 110.
Better quality in this RoV can be increased in two ways: by using even more valuable ingredients or by equipping items that provide a "Craftname Quality Rating." Through experimentation, I discovered that ~20 Quality Rating is equivalent to 1% of RoV, and this upset me greatly. Let me explain why.
Let’s take, for example, the "Apprentice Leatherworker's Shirt" and the "Journeyman Leatherworker's Shirt."
Their Leatherworking Quality Ratings are:
Apprentice: 56–66 for the white grade, 211–275 for the legendary grade.
Journeyman: 92–107 for the white grade, 282–359 for the legendary grade.
The difficulty and effort required to craft these two items are currently disproportionate, but the final difference in terms of position in RoV appears to be very insignificant—only about ~4%.
Of course, when we’re talking about min-maxing, an 8% difference provided by two items is substantial, but is it really that significant in practical terms?
Let’s take a closer look.
Imagine we magically assemble a fully legendary Journeyman set (ignoring the rarity of leather) consisting of three items—jacket, pants, and belt—at the minimum RoV point. In total, we get:
282 + 307 + 267 = 856 rating, which equals approximately 42.8%. Now, we’re fancy and can afford to craft upgraded versions of these items.
Let’s start with the pants, which have a range of 307–392. With our 42.8%, the new value becomes 343, adding about ~1.8%. A bit of simplified mathematical approximation leads us to conclude that if we spend an extraordinary amount of resources on repeatedly crafting legendary items in leatherworking, tailoring, and armor smithing, we can eventually create a set whose total bonus approaches 50%(though it’s unlikely to actually reach that value).
But what do these 50% mean in relation to legendary items?
Let’s consider something like the Rosethorn Tunic.
Armor: 63–68 Magic Resist: 63–68 Intelligence: 13–16 Magical Critical Chance Rating: 25–31 Mana Regeneration Rating: 20–25 Magical Penetration Rating: 20–31 Wisdom: 3–6
Since we’re slightly below 50%, rounding will likely go downward, resulting in the following stats for our Rosethorn Tunic:
Armor: 65 (+2) Magic Resist: 65 (+2) Intelligence: 14 (+1) Magical Critical Chance Rating: 27 (+2) Mana Regeneration Rating: 22 (+2) Magical Penetration Rating: 25 (+5) Wisdom: 4 (+1)The result is roughly equivalent to a single +1 enchantment. However, enchanting costs millions of times less than preparing a full legendary-quality crafter set.
Naturally, we wear several items, and each one provides a bit of a benefit for character min-maxing. But even in this case, an approximate increase of +8 Intelligence compared to ~250+ is merely 3%, and the scale of this benefit seems catastrophically disproportionate to the required effort.
I really hope that I’m missing something and that you’ll tell me about it, but for now, I’m in a state of complete confusion. The only consolation is that we’re currently in 1/3 of the game’s progression, and the target items are, of course, level 50 gear. Perhaps a level 50 legendary set will provide +100% to quality, and in that case, it will be an entirely different conversation.
=====================================================
UPDATED 2025/01/16
The initial assumption was incorrect. The game uses a non-linear formula.
So instead of 100%, 200%, 300%... 600% we have thresholds:
1 - сommon
6 - uncommon
16 - rare
31 - heroic
51 - epic
71 - legendary
100 - legendary with best stats.
That means our Crafting Quality Rating would give us different impact on different tiers. If we will use Legendary Journeyman set, for example on uncommon reagents, we will get rare result. But if we will use it while crafting legendaty item, we will get only 30% of possible stat bonuses.
We have some basic calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QbSOHPcWPri-UE-NU_tEiZ1YI3-D-A_b1My-0_WTwYw/edit?gid=843461881#gid=843461881 feel free to use.
4
Comments
For me, this is the main take-away. I think they might have gone overboard on the rarity stats nerfing.
UPDATED 2025/01/16
The initial assumption was incorrect. The game uses a non-linear formula.
So instead of 100%, 200%, 300%... 600% we have thresholds:
1 - сommon
6 - uncommon
16 - rare
31 - heroic
51 - epic
71 - legendary
100 - legendary with best stats.
That means our Crafting Quality Rating would give us different impact on different tiers. If we will use Legendary Journeyman set, for example on uncommon reagents, we will get rare result. But if we will use it while crafting legendaty item, we will get only 30% of possible stat bonuses.
We have some basic calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QbSOHPcWPri-UE-NU_tEiZ1YI3-D-A_b1My-0_WTwYw/edit?gid=843461881#gid=843461881 feel free to use.
Hi,
Did you test crafts using items dropped by named boss/mobs ?
Do they count as any other material, for 8% and according to their rarity (often Rare/blue) ?
They have no influence of final rarity same as vendor items.
To calculate the percentage of a number within a range, you can use this formula:
% is the item rarity that you get from the weighted average, but normalized, basically x10. So if your item rarity is 5.284, your % is 52.84.
From this you do some math and you get X. X is your actual attribute value.
And in the end it will look something like:
Thanks for the detailed comment, it really helped me understand where I made a mistake (no).
Weighted Average = Σ(xi * qi) / Σ(xi)
Where:
- xi = quantity of each item
- qi = quality (or value) of each item, q has a value from 1 to 6. common to legendary
- Σ(xi) = total quantity of all items
Lets take an example: Forsaken Blades Breastplate Apply the formula:
Xi = 8, 1, 1 Qi = 5, 6, 3 Weighted average = ( (8 * 5) + (1 * 6) + (1 * 3) ) / 10 = (40 + 6 + 3) / 10 = 4.9 rarity 4 means heroic rarity.Lets calculate the stats too:
We also have 4.9 stat roll. Normalize it, = 49, and apply formula for heroic stats
Here is another example with an item that I have ss for:
Tanning shirt, with 1 legendary tin, 10 legendary bluebell bolts, 1 common raptor hide and 1 common wolf hide
Here was another test: If I exchange the common wolf and raptor hide with 1 blue wolf hide, and 1 green raptor hide, we get this
And the math still checks it out.
Edit: If you don't want to deal with rarity * 10 to calculate the stats, you can change the parameters. Instead of 1->6 for quality, you use 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60.
So, math in my model(and game model too) works as fine as yours and have same results.
Picture link for full screen: https://us.v-cdn.net/6030144/uploads/editor/9x/4s9pnsdw25fu.png
So? Why are you and GhostFilms think my math and calculator are wrong? xD
But you know what? I am ready to show you where is your model gives you false suggestions. Let's downgrade a bit quality of items:
We are crafing... same item, but we take:
1R + 10 U + 1C + 1C
In your model it should be
So, we have 1, means should be a common item. And as soon as we have 56 - 66 Tanning Quantity Increase Rating fork...
Result of your model:
Common item and 65 Quality Rating stat on it.
But my model says "nope" 6 Quality = uncommon
Result of my model
Uncommon item with 67 Quality Rating on it
Hope you have enough resourses to check it when servers will up, because I don't have any now. But I am 100% sure that I am right
So your math on using base 0 quality rating on the gear you are wearing for the craft it correct. however if you add quality rating your accuracy slowly drifts away. You should be using the quality curve for crafting I'm not too sure what math you are using for taking into account your quality.
x y
0 0
316 3
700 5
1264 7
1984 10
2893.4 12
3712 15
4448 17
5040 20
7008 23
8409 25
Source: 6064632695202710053
This is the quality rating curve table. You should be using linear Interpolation to calculate the y value based on the inputted quality rating and the y value is an additive on top of the final average from the quality average used.
it is `nonQualityRatingOutput + evaluatedStat` Evaluated stat being the interpolated data from the stat curve based on total Quality Rating player has for specific craft.
"qualityFormula": { "expression": "GetCraftingRecipeQuality() + EvalFormula($#10516612381411113:6064630356607565904$)" }Source: 90% of crafting recipes. This is specifically a carpenter recipe.GetCraftingRecipeQuality() is the base quality without taking into account the quality of gear used.
Source: 6064630356676182102
this is the EvalFormula from the qualityFormula above.
PS: Apologies for not elaborating was tired.
Oh, thanks! You found it! Can you tell me this curve's guid? Oh, I am blind, it's 6064632695202710053, thanks!
Well, then we have 2 cocnlusions:
1. It's impossible to make a max.stat legendary item at all - we need 29% for that, this curve have no measuring after 25% and even optistic assumption that 29% would be near 11k and current item progression doesn't look like even possible to give this amount of q.rating.
2. After p.1 this game system looks like broken
They broke it, but I think that's how it should be. It is not working properly because we're missing the artisan tree. Most likely the artisan tree will be essential.
These are not percentages they are direct quality additives. based off non quality rating gear effect.
discord.gg/lod
What he said.
a bit of a side question -- could someone explain how to actually use the guid / source info citations in this thread like "Source: 6064632695202710053" Just searching for one of those numbers is only coming up with these posts and here and I'm not finding any explanation.
Also, RedsRichy, folowing up re some of these last posts re "direct quality additives" versus 'percentages' -- I can totally see why you would have used the 'percentage' terminology, based on the idea that quality can run from 1-100. But, these last posts are making me wonder if we really have support for the top part of that range-- it seems like your calculator approach would still be giving us all the same correct answers for currently reachable numbers if the actual top of the range was 96 (71 from legendary material + 25 from posited max attainable quality ratings boost) instead of going up to a max of 100.