@ Intrepid - You're bleeding testers

Anyone can briefly look at this forum board and see the same issues popping up constantly. However Intrepid, you have failed to act on so many serious issues since last phase, or the new ones. I'm not sure why your priorities are on changing mount sprint icons over actual game-breaking issues, but I'm sure it's causing massive frustration for the average tester.

I for one am now done testing until next phase. I've weathered this storm for a month to see absolutely no changes, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time dealing with mentally ill players. The recent post Steven made about taking action against the griefers/exploiters is a joke. Only 19 people got permanently banned? Seriously?! I've reported more than that many offenders myself. These little slaps on the wrist aren't going to do a thing. The only real solution is to perma ban these players without hesitation or 2nd chances. They know what they are doing and that message needs to be sent. i understand why you may want to start slowly with offenders, but you are losing FAR more actual testers with your hesitation.

Until this is done, or a new server is created for those who don't want to deal with those toxic players is created, players like myself will not help with the testing of Ashes. Ya know, the players who are actually testing things and sending in bug reports. That is who you are now alienating with these decisions. I've seen so many people already quit due to these frustrations, and now I'm following suit. Vyra is flooded with the most toxic players I've ever seen in any game. You may want to start rethinking some of your systems, because without instanced dungeons for example, no one with brain cells will be playing Ashes in it's current form. No one will pay to be tortured. Many of us question if Intrepid even bothers testing their own game, because these issues are so obvious.

Almost all of these toxic players are in the game guilds. Guilds that advertise their toxicity making it VERY EASY to find and ban them all. I'll help you out by giving you a list:

Dopamine
Nerotic Savages
Enveus
Barcode
Kaos
Genesis
Polar

It won't matter how good the art, animations, and crafting are, everything will be overshadowed by the constant toxic behavior from these guilds. So either they need to be banned or redesign with instanced dungeons needs to happen. No one wants to be around these players. Your decision to use only two servers also fueled this and made things worse.

I didn't have to post this. I could have just walked away from this without saying anything. However, I want Ashes to succeed which is why I'm stating what should be obvious. Failure to take action will result in a max exodus.

I'll try again in May. Hopefully you took these words of warning to heart.

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Comments

Terranigma1

The thing is that Ashes currently offers various systems and mechanics to act in a toxic way, and I got the destinct feeling that a lot - but of course not all - of these means to make players feel miserable are by design. Ashes strives to be a PvX game that fosters conflict amongst players, and such games have typically ended up with rather toxic communities. So, I don't think that there'll be a major shift in this regard.

lukedawuke

dont let the door hit you on the way out

Veeshan

here an idea if guild are toxic then other people probaly dont like them find those people and keep war decing them.
people are quick to complain about things and not actualy try and solve thing themselfs

SmileGurney

I can only sympathise, the EU server has its share of sociopaths afaik. In my experience those few faces I vaguely associated with griefing are less of a nuisance after few level demotions and potentially some bans.

The game will bleed testers and players anyway, so yeah Intrepid aren't helping themselves. Just move the cesspool onto a separate server. There is a reason why multiple servers per region was a better idea, but I suppose the cost of running those and poor player numbers dont help.

D3ATHSPARK

Terranigma1 wrote: »

The thing is that Ashes currently offers various systems and mechanics to act in a toxic way, and I got the destinct feeling that a lot - but of course not all - of these means to make players feel miserable are by design. Ashes strives to be a PvX game that fosters conflict amongst players, and such games have typically ended up with rather toxic communities. So, I don't think that there'll be a major shift in this regard.

Yes and no. Steven has stated he wants meaningful PvP and not just random PvP. This is why the punishment for blatant murdering people exists. Caravans, node wars, etc is where the PvP is supposed to exist, and while some of those can be annoying you know what you are getting into with those. Griefing is completely different and not productive in any way.

SmileGurney wrote: »

I can only sympathise, the EU server has its share of sociopaths afaik. In my experience those few faces I vaguely associated with griefing are less of a nuisance after few level demotions and potentially some bans.

The game will bleed testers and players anyway, so yeah Intrepid aren't helping themselves. Just move the cesspool onto a separate server. There is a reason why multiple servers per region was a better idea, but I suppose the cost of running those and poor player numbers dont help.

True. I have no problem starting the game later than everyone else and jumping on a server that comes up later. I would also restart on a new server now than play with toxic players who gate keep every resource, dungeon, etc. This is one of those common sense things that some how Intrepid doesn't get.

Its_Me

I don't think they are bleeding testers, they are just losing the ones that have been following their request to report and not abuse exploits that are tired of watching the testers all around them abuse and get away with it.

Testers know that a lot of data is skewed when players repeatedly abuse exploits and begin to feel as if they are wasting their time testing when the devs are not going to take exploiting seriously and get rid of these players like they promise.

As a tester, we expect to deal with a lot of bugs, everything from floating terrain, to sudden unexplained deaths, to getting stuck in rocks but this is all a normal part of testing, find bugs and report them so they are fixed. What is not expected or tolerated is a developer promising to handle players that exploit and then not taking action that they promised they would and attempting to hide their irresponsibility behind a vague post with low ass numbers. Numbers lower than what we see taking place around us in less than a week. 😲

Ashes won't have an issue with keeping enough testers, the apha will just become more saturated with players abusing exploits that skew the data and this number will continue to grow as more players decide to jump on the bandwagon (just like there is more this time around) when they realize that the devs are handling the abuse in a way that promotes more exploiting.

The interview with Pirates was a joke. Pre-arranged PR fluff questions to make Steven and Thor appear wonderful while hiding all the bullshit lurking beneath.

I think many of us had hope that Steven was different with all the promises he made but then again, should we be surprised that he is backtracking on promises and not handling exploiters and giving preferential treatment to some when he himself had similar conduct when playing in games and admits to being banned himself? I think this one is on us. 🤔

foxstalvind

Being toxic is not an exploit, it is game play within a rule set. Now, can there be extremes, such as literal griefing? Yes, but most of the toxic players are not targeting you they are targeting everyone, that is why Steven probably is not going to punish toxicity as he has stated that he wants competition and toxicity up to a point. I will admit, my gameplay is much more carebear oriented as I want people to have content and at least a modicum of fun.

On another note toxicity does not equate exploiting. Griefing in certain styles is not an exploit, but can be in others. So please, keep exploiters and toxics in two different breaths.

Aardvark

D3ATHSPARK wrote: »

Anyone can briefly look at this forum board and see the same issues popping up constantly. However Intrepid, you have failed to act on so many serious issues since last phase, or the new ones. I'm not sure why your priorities are on changing mount sprint icons over actual game-breaking issues, but I'm sure it's causing massive frustration for the average tester.

I for one am now done testing until next phase. I've weathered this storm for a month to see absolutely no changes, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time dealing with mentally ill players. The recent post Steven made about taking action against the griefers/exploiters is a joke. Only 19 people got permanently banned? Seriously?! I've reported more than that many offenders myself. These little slaps on the wrist aren't going to do a thing. The only real solution is to perma ban these players without hesitation or 2nd chances. They know what they are doing and that message needs to be sent. i understand why you may want to start slowly with offenders, but you are losing FAR more actual testers with your hesitation.

Until this is done, or a new server is created for those who don't want to deal with those toxic players is created, players like myself will not help with the testing of Ashes. Ya know, the players who are actually testing things and sending in bug reports. That is who you are now alienating with these decisions. I've seen so many people already quit due to these frustrations, and now I'm following suit. Vyra is flooded with the most toxic players I've ever seen in any game. You may want to start rethinking some of your systems, because without instanced dungeons for example, no one with brain cells will be playing Ashes in it's current form. No one will pay to be tortured. Many of us question if Intrepid even bothers testing their own game, because these issues are so obvious.

Almost all of these toxic players are in the game guilds. Guilds that advertise their toxicity making it VERY EASY to find and ban them all. I'll help you out by giving you a list:

Dopamine
Nerotic Savages
Enveus
Barcode
Kaos
Genesis
Polar

It won't matter how good the art, animations, and crafting are, everything will be overshadowed by the constant toxic behavior from these guilds. So either they need to be banned or redesign with instanced dungeons needs to happen. No one wants to be around these players. Your decision to use only two servers also fueled this and made things worse.

I didn't have to post this. I could have just walked away from this without saying anything. However, I want Ashes to succeed which is why I'm stating what should be obvious. Failure to take action will result in a max exodus.

I'll try again in May. Hopefully you took these words of warning to heart.

I would be shocked if anything other than some xp loss happened to any member of PI of which those guilds have several of.

Ryve

Genesis bad!

Volgaris

It'd be interesting to see the actual tester count. I've already resigned to waiting for rogue or phase 3.

My biggest issues with the game are similar to yours.
1. The game is toxic, and encourages the behavior.
2. The PvP has no meaning. There's no "sides" it's just free for all chaos. This loses it fun pretty quick. After years of TF, UET, Tribes, ect. Death match, team death match, ffa pvp gets old fast.
3. Exploits in themselves aren't the issue, actual exploits, it's alpha. The problem is this isn't like an actual Alpha testing phase. This is a play test. There's not enough systems to actually play test.
4. It's good to see exploiters banned overall, but yeah a day late and dollar short for me.
5. Phase 2 right before the holiday was a bad idea. Should have let phase 1 go until the new year. Releasing phase 2 then going on holiday right after wasn't smart... never merge on friday...
6. The wipe was a big kick in the nuts
7. The reduction in the servers was also bad. Either too expensive or not enough testers dictated this.
8. Since the game is a "play test" and not an "alpha" losing items to inventory bugs is rough and should have been addressed ASAP as a critical bug. Nothing like losing 3 hours of farming because rclicking items from your inventory to your node storage just drops the items from the table. Or any number of the looting, inventory bugs out there. If this was an actual alpha it wouldn't matter, but it's NOT alpha it's a play test. Literrally you're playing the game as a tester to get data from the developers that's not in the Alpha's scope. Nor would paid testers that would normally be in alpha be grinding for items, materials, gear, exp, ect. But hey we paid to be here so screw us and our value of our time.
9. Go BIG or GO HOME! Want to experience the game and all it's systems. Join or make a MEGA guild. It's the only way you'll be able to defend a node or take over an area, poi, dungeon, ect.

D3ATHSPARK

If you were around when these servers went live you would know the numbers are half of that if not even less. Testers are dropping like flies. Putting together groups on a regular, this is very noticeable.

Syraleaf

I'll note that with large teams of developers you'll often have teams finishing up tasks while others are still hard at work. The artists, for instance, can't fix design issues. This is why it's totally ok for them to keep adding new art to icons. They don't have the know-how on how to fix design issues anyway.

Noaani

The thing I think most of you are missing - is that the game is supposed to be full of toxicity.

Cheating isn't supposed to be a part of the game, but toxicity is.

MetalDad

Taking a break sounds like a good idea for you. If you are getting angry enough to quit.. .then you should take a break. Come back for Phase 3 in May... the game will be very different then. Most importantly, it will be larger... so the concentration of toxic people per sq meter will be much less. This sounds like that is important for you, so a break sounds like a good idea. Likely all will be starting over again too... my money is on at least a money and gear reset if not a complete wipe for phase 3.

Interesting list of Guilds. Add Nova Ordem (unless you're a member ) and you hit most of the big guilds. There are a few other smaller guilds with some members who are also toxic that I could add to your list. My own personal list of people who loot my corpse more often than not would have to include Suspect to that list

Toxic people are a percentage of the population, the bigger the guild, the more toxic players they will have. but, dont equate success with toxicity and exploitation... some of the people in these guilds are playing WAY more than the average person. These are people that do want to be in the top 10% on the server... and they put in the time and effort figuring out the systems to match. They are practicing.. and sometimes they practice on you... dont take it personally. And use the ignore feature too. WalmartLover is way more tolerable when he is ignored....

That said, I dont get the rage in your post. The amount of time it takes from you writing a bug report or reporting a player to Intrepid developing and deploying a fix ( or a ban ) is not instant. Give them time to think things through and fix it. Watch the Pirate Software interview recently. One of the reasons Steven is happy with Pirate software ( and if you were on their server... ActualPirates would be at the top of your list ) is that they understand development and are finding real issues writing good bugs.We may see another wipe... or a gold reset or item resets...and maybe a few more bans for people that went to far... it's part of testing and development.

Whenever I get upset at something, I write the bug and give the feedback. If the PvP corruption baiting bug is still in place when they launch... then maybe I won't play... but I seriously doubt they are not going to fix stuff like that. If people are training me and I can't flag up to get them.... I am going to write a nasty tell to the people doing it. Very nasty. I will also fart in their general direction. I have reported people as well. I even told a GM once and the person training disappeared after that... not sure what happened... but correlation...

What I am not going to rage quit and post to the world that the game sucks or that intrepid isn't doing a good job. Worst case I would just take a break.

Chicago

D3ATHSPARK wrote: »

Anyone can briefly look at this forum board and see the same issues popping up constantly. However Intrepid, you have failed to act on so many serious issues since last phase, or the new ones. I'm not sure why your priorities are on changing mount sprint icons over actual game-breaking issues, but I'm sure it's causing massive frustration for the average tester.

I for one am now done testing until next phase. I've weathered this storm for a month to see absolutely no changes, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time dealing with mentally ill players. The recent post Steven made about taking action against the griefers/exploiters is a joke. Only 19 people got permanently banned? Seriously?! I've reported more than that many offenders myself. These little slaps on the wrist aren't going to do a thing. The only real solution is to perma ban these players without hesitation or 2nd chances. They know what they are doing and that message needs to be sent. i understand why you may want to start slowly with offenders, but you are losing FAR more actual testers with your hesitation.

Until this is done, or a new server is created for those who don't want to deal with those toxic players is created, players like myself will not help with the testing of Ashes. Ya know, the players who are actually testing things and sending in bug reports. That is who you are now alienating with these decisions. I've seen so many people already quit due to these frustrations, and now I'm following suit. Vyra is flooded with the most toxic players I've ever seen in any game. You may want to start rethinking some of your systems, because without instanced dungeons for example, no one with brain cells will be playing Ashes in it's current form. No one will pay to be tortured. Many of us question if Intrepid even bothers testing their own game, because these issues are so obvious.

Almost all of these toxic players are in the game guilds. Guilds that advertise their toxicity making it VERY EASY to find and ban them all. I'll help you out by giving you a list:

Dopamine
Nerotic Savages
Enveus
Barcode
Kaos
Genesis
Polar

It won't matter how good the art, animations, and crafting are, everything will be overshadowed by the constant toxic behavior from these guilds. So either they need to be banned or redesign with instanced dungeons needs to happen. No one wants to be around these players. Your decision to use only two servers also fueled this and made things worse.

I didn't have to post this. I could have just walked away from this without saying anything. However, I want Ashes to succeed which is why I'm stating what should be obvious. Failure to take action will result in a max exodus.

I'll try again in May. Hopefully you took these words of warning to heart.

Can't say I don't agree, having caravans bug out due to the same pug for the past 5 months and intrepids fix is " you can now delete your caravan" is quite frustrating, or corruption baiting still being a thing after 4 months of reports that it's extremely toxic to lose 15 hours of time due to a buggy system that lets you drop up to 7 equipt items on death

The list of bugs goes on but at least the thorns buff on ranger got a visual overhaul

kwankoon

In most MMO's there are three types of players. First the Power player, they tear games apart and seek every single advantage they can find, they only care about being at the top of the mountain. The second player is the immersive player, they look into every nook and cranny crafting, exploring, social interactions. The Third player is the casual, they are just about having a good time meet with old acquaintance's.

Guild's formed by the Power players are militaristic in nature and will seek every advantage they can find. In the end they will prey on each other until boredom sets in and they move to the next realm. Thiis is what they do, Barcode was looking for a new realm after BDO became dull no one would node war with them Power guild will rip a realm apart and run the immersive and casual's to other realm's or they will get bored and move to the next one they are basically locusts consuming all in their path. PvP'ers gravitate to these guild's

Guilds formed by the Immersive players move slowly thru a realm. They can be crafters dedicated to build an economy which is no easy task. They will move thru questlines and look for puzzle's. They also like to create and make their avatar unique. Dungeons can be a drug for them as they get to explore, find that rare crafting item and combat all in one package. PvP is a on and off item for them being number one is not their goal.

Guilds formed by casuals are most likely friends and others who like to have fun. PvP can be fun or they can leave it alone. These guilds fill in many gaps for everyone. Power guilds can drive them off easily because they will have the smallest time investment.

This is the nature of things in the end the population will have to police it self. Power guilds are not going away Test well and expose every exploit you find, you can bet they dont report everything they have found so far

Be Good

Volgaris

D3ATHSPARK wrote: »

If you were around when these servers went live you would know the numbers are half of that if not even less. Testers are dropping like flies. Putting together groups on a regular, this is very noticeable.

I haven't played for about 2 weeks now. I did notice a bit of a drop off from the start of phase 2, but that was to be expected. But what I know is not many of my friends on discord are playing Ashes anymore. So it's very likely they are losing a lot. I was actually going to get the alpha for a couple of friends but decide against it because the level of toxicity in the game, so I'm sure others are not recommending the game this is probably hurting Alpha sells too. But hey Pirates is happy so keep on truckin i guess lol.

Volgaris

MetalDad wrote: »

Taking a break sounds like a good idea for you. If you are getting angry enough to quit.. .then you should take a break. Come back for Phase 3 in May... the game will be very different then. Most importantly, it will be larger... so the concentration of toxic people per sq meter will be much less. This sounds like that is important for you, so a break sounds like a good idea. Likely all will be starting over again too... my money is on at least a money and gear reset if not a complete wipe for phase 3.

Interesting list of Guilds. Add Nova Ordem (unless you're a member ) and you hit most of the big guilds. There are a few other smaller guilds with some members who are also toxic that I could add to your list. My own personal list of people who loot my corpse more often than not would have to include Suspect to that list Toxic people are a percentage of the population, the bigger the guild, the more toxic players they will have. but, dont equate success with toxicity and exploitation... some of the people in these guilds are playing WAY more than the average person. These are people that do want to be in the top 10% on the server... and they put in the time and effort figuring out the systems to match. They are practicing.. and sometimes they practice on you... dont take it personally. And use the ignore feature too. WalmartLover is way more tolerable when he is ignored....

That said, I dont get the rage in your post. The amount of time it takes from you writing a bug report or reporting a player to Intrepid developing and deploying a fix ( or a ban ) is not instant. Give them time to think things through and fix it. Watch the Pirate Software interview recently. One of the reasons Steven is happy with Pirate software ( and if you were on their server... ActualPirates would be at the top of your list ) is that they understand development and are finding real issues writing good bugs.We may see another wipe... or a gold reset or item resets...and maybe a few more bans for people that went to far... it's part of testing and development.

Whenever I get upset at something, I write the bug and give the feedback. If the PvP corruption baiting bug is still in place when they launch... then maybe I won't play... but I seriously doubt they are not going to fix stuff like that. If people are training me and I can't flag up to get them.... I am going to write a nasty tell to the people doing it. Very nasty. I will also fart in their general direction. I have reported people as well. I even told a GM once and the person training disappeared after that... not sure what happened... but correlation...

What I am not going to rage quit and post to the world that the game sucks or that intrepid isn't doing a good job. Worst case I would just take a break.

You make a lot of good point, but some is a bit hopeful thinking too. A break is a good idea for a lot of people, but how many will take a break and will it affect a change in direction for the development? I personally didn't really experience direct toxicity from other players, just a general blanket over the world of constant tension and dick measuring. The competing of mobs/poi/materials, ect with no clear sign sides or teams. It just made playing the game boring.

Pirates aren't the only developers writing bugs. Steven likes them because they are a large and he's a streamer, so he has a large reach for players. I'm sure he'll do one with Asmondo if he starts streaming. Like most I watch the interview or parts rather. But it was softball mostly, really a fluff piece IMO.

Doing another wipe will be a bad idea, even at phase 3. I can't be sure of this, but I'd bet money that more testers will leave than will come back and stay. Most will come back for a bit at phase 3 with or without a wipe. And wiping will make some leave that have weathered the storm. Getting wiped because exploiters when the game such a grind is going to anger a lot. I don't see Ashes doing this.

You may choose to tolerate the toxicity and interact or respond to the griefers but not everyone wants to participate in it. I would if it were like a RvR but as it now the social aspect of the game is basically trash. It's like watching Jerry Springer. Fun for about 5 minutes then you start to realize some of these people are seriously like this and you start to worry about humanity. Thank god they don't have paternity tests in the games... yet...

OPs comments resonate with many testers. Venting your frustration on the forum is the right place for it. How much interaction and attention does it get? Is he the canary in the coal mine? If so than it's likely Ashes will address it.

AirborneBerserker

Ryve wrote: »

Genesis bad!

You know you doing this doesn't help your case.

You should probably take this seriously, and act accordingly.

Orym

1. 200+ developers are not working on the same thing.
2. What specifically have these "toxic" people done exactly?

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