Grief system kills the game

Again we see many people lg because of the insane Grief system that doesn't work.

We had 5 groups log out because people got made and couldn't stand it anymore....its killing the fun.

Grave robbers ...most lvl 25 are having a blast and farming lower levels for easy loot and cash.
In HH all day lvls 25 pull mobs into groups...get them killed and steal the graves. AoC loves this
They also run round and where people die...they quickly steal the loot from corpses....again AoC loves this

why they love it?
Because nothing is done about it.
Robbers. Thieves and people who like to get others killed by drag mobs into them are getting cheered by in the board room at AoC.
AoC must really think about this grief system because this will be the reason people will leave the game.

Its blood boiling stupid.

Stop the drag mobs into others system.
Stop not giving people time to get the stuff back...specially in pvp mode.
Mark people who rob graves of players 10 lvl or lower then their own for Thieves for 48 hours. Dont let them exp...trade in towns or so...punish the thieves.

How many more signals does AoC need to see that what they created in a board room doesn't work.

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Caww

this is Stevens grand vision, love it or leave it....

Volgaris

Game needs a Reputation System.

If a person kills, grave robs, attacks a caravan of a citizen of Node ABC that person loses reputation with that Node (and any node in that nodes vassal chain.), all the way to the point that those Nodes can become hostel to that player w/o that player needing to become corrupted.

This would help with the chaos of the current PvP and draw more clear lines of who is friend or foe. Name plates need to be more clear for this to be fluid. Displaying the Guild, Node, Vassal Chain, Religion ect...

As it is there's no clear line of friend or foe in PvP leading to this get rich through ganking scheme.

This would give more incentive to defense friendly node caravans, players, ect. And less incentive to attack friendly node caravans. Right now the attack has very little to lose if played right. The idea is for the attackers to go to Nodes not in the Vassal chain and attack caravans there. W/O Vassals being in the game there's no way to know how this will actually work. W/O a reputation system the punishment for attacking friendly peoples/things is too low.

How many times have you been killed by someone from your own Node? Or how many times have you looted from someone from your own Guild?

This was quickly brought up in the pirates interview but wasn't focused on, which is strange because this is (as I see it) a core issue making people stop testing. It's a grief fest because it's a world of small tribes and big tribes leading to unbalanced team death matches.

If the current iteration of PvP is the desired end state for the game I want nothing to do with it. Which is okay with me I'll play something else. I still hope for success for the game either way. But I don't see success for the game if the PvP isn't brought under control.

edit: thanks for making me think this out a bit. i believe it deserves it's own post

compunerdy

This is not even real PVP.. its PVP using PVE. I also really hope this is not the vision. If nothing else, just make it so deaths from PVE do not make lootable corpses. This would help with a lot of the current issues until a better system is made.

Ludullu

Caww wrote: »

this is Stevens grand vision, love it or leave it....

It's not though. Mob AI is unfinished and Steven has literally said he doesn't want it the way it is right now. The corruption system is nowhere near finished. BHs don't exist. Wars don't work and/or are not fully implemented. High lvl content is not fully implemented, so high lvl players are bored and got nothing better to do than exploit unfinished designs. Crafting system is unfinished, which, at least in P1, was one of the other reasons for lvl25s to train people in HH, cause everyone wanted the drops from that location, even if you were at max lvl - all because crafting was lagging far behind the lvls.

In other words, the current situation is all about the unfinishedness of the game. For those who can't take this situation - take a break. Intrepid know about these issues and they're also still developing the game. Come back in a few months and check which of those issues have been resolved by that point.

nanfoodle

Leashing will be adjusted. It's coming.

AirborneBerserker

nanfoodle wrote: »

Leashing will be adjusted. It's coming.

Can you post a link to a statement on an official channel or website please.

People keep saying this is going to change but I haven't actually seen any evidence of them not intending this.

Ludullu

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

People keep saying this is going to change but I haven't actually seen any evidence of them not intending this.

https://youtu.be/lDI_A9MD83Y?t=3014 (go to the video itself, cause forum doesn't handle time-based links properly)

I can't, for the life of me, remember where Steven said the exact quote of "no, leashing is not working properly right now", but here's another confirmation that the aggro/leashing/pathing code is being worked on and changed

edit: found it. There's your direct quote

https://youtu.be/0pButnG7izQ?t=5037

nanfoodle

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Leashing will be adjusted. It's coming.

Can you post a link to a statement on an official channel or website please.

People keep saying this is going to change but I haven't actually seen any evidence of them not intending this.

Was in an interview

Arya_Yeshe

Since I joined here I insistent what will kill AoC is not pvp grieing, but the PVE GRIEFING... you can't counter pve griefing

That's what happens when the pve system belongs to the 80s, really

Mionikoi

Roanator wrote: »

Again we see many people lg because of the insane Grief system that doesn't work.

We had 5 groups log out because people got made and couldn't stand it anymore....its killing the fun.

Grave robbers ...most lvl 25 are having a blast and farming lower levels for easy loot and cash.
In HH all day lvls 25 pull mobs into groups...get them killed and steal the graves. AoC loves this
They also run round and where people die...they quickly steal the loot from corpses....again AoC loves this

why they love it?
Because nothing is done about it.
Robbers. Thieves and people who like to get others killed by drag mobs into them are getting cheered by in the board room at AoC.
AoC must really think about this grief system because this will be the reason people will leave the game.

Its blood boiling stupid.

Stop the drag mobs into others system.
Stop not giving people time to get the stuff back...specially in pvp mode.
Mark people who rob graves of players 10 lvl or lower then their own for Thieves for 48 hours. Dont let them exp...trade in towns or so...punish the thieves.

How many more signals does AoC need to see that what they created in a board room doesn't work.

Stolen glint is already in the game, but has been turned off for now.

Players flag up as combatants when they steal from an ash pile.

Mob training is being worked on so the aggro stays on the one who first aggroed them and will 'leash' when the monster train reaches a threshold.

I agree, people need to stay combatants longer for doing stuff like that. I disagree with 48 hours. 30 minutes maybe.

This is a PvX game built on player socializing with each other. If you don't like what a bunch of high levels are doing, get another faction of high levels to deal with them.

You will have to fight for resources. This is by design. This game is competitive. You do not have to compete alone. You do not even have to commit to PvP.

But, it is an option. I frankly think your skills in politics needs working on. And this game has politics whether you like it or not. Engage with it or suffer being left out.

Your experience is as you make it. If you feel people who are griefing you are a problem, use what tools that are available in game and out of game to deal with them. Run smear campaigns. Hire mercenaries. Make alliance. Flag up and fight back!

I strongly disagree with the notion of restricting players with systems.

I promote clever gameplay.

I say this without malice nor irony,or disregard of your plite.

I say it because I want players who will be a challenge.

Git gud.

blktauna

ah the lame git gud. I wondered when that would start.

Mionikoi

blktauna wrote: »

ah the lame git gud. I wondered when that would start.

Seriously? I see. TLDR.

Well here is a shorter version.

The tools are already there to solve your problems. Learn what they are and how to use them.

Looking forward to when you level up as a player, not your character.

EPMAN

Mionikoi wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

ah the lame git gud. I wondered when that would start.

Seriously? I see. TLDR.

Well here is a shorter version.

The tools are already there to solve your problems. Learn what they are and how to use them.

Looking forward to when you level up as a player, not your character.

You just kill guys that pull mobs on your farm?

Xeeg

Mionikoi wrote: »

I agree, people need to stay combatants longer for doing stuff like that. I disagree with 48 hours. 30 minutes maybe.

30m for purple robbing a deathpile might be a bit much still.

10-15 minutes would give enough time for some help to come, but not for someone on the other side of the riverlands to come.

The current time of ~2m or whatever feels too short. Personally I want more purple people in the open world, not less. And I am one of the people who loves to loot bodies and "train" monsters. Love this style of PVX.

When people bring monsters to me or my groups i see it as a challenge and an opportunity for some fun outside of the monotonous grind. Shrug, different strokes for different folks.

If people are going to say that professions, traveling, and caravans are supposed to be dull and boring, at least let us spice up the mob grinding with PVX. The complainers can go pick flowers.

Droshi

Intrepid's stance against griefing is pretty consistent, they'll change mob aggro, and prob it still won't work correctly for a few iterations. But they definitely don't like it. They've already added flagging to looting and I expect they will do other things down the road other than just tuning mob aggro.

Terranigma1

Xeeg wrote: »

When people bring monsters to me or my groups i see it as a challenge and an opportunity for some fun outside of the monotonous grind. Shrug, different strokes for different folks.

If people are going to say that professions, traveling, and caravans are supposed to be dull and boring, at least let us spice up the mob grinding with PVX. The complainers can go pick flowers.

I can understand your reasoning, even though I don't agree on the conclusion. What I mean: you say grinding is dull and boring, and so are professions, caravans and travelling. In other words, you say that all gameloops are currently dull, boring and tedious - and I agree, they are.

But shouldn't the solution for Intrepid rather be to - well ... - make these systems fun to engage with instead of having players grief each other because the game itself doesn't manage to entertain them? Isn't this approach a bit ... off?

My personal solution: I neither pick flowers nor do I get griefed, because I stopped playing. At least my impression of the current vibe and mood here on the Forum, Reddit, etc. is that more and more people put the Alpha aside, also because of the toxic behaviour they experience. So eventually there won't be anyone left to train monsters on. Then again, I'm somewhat hopeful Intrepid will spice up the levelling experience soon so people don't have to randomly kill each other because there isn't much fun to be found in the current state of the Alpha besides that.

Xeeg

Terranigma1 wrote: »

But shouldn't the solution for Intrepid rather be to - well ... - make these systems fun to engage with instead of having players grief each other because the game itself doesn't manage to entertain them? Isn't this approach a bit ... off?

I think the problem is that people call PVX "griefing". It's like shooting a red shell at someone in mario kart to pass them. Are they "greifing" them?

People don't like getting hit by red shells and so they complain about it. But would mario kart really be that much better if they got rid of red shells?

This is a mentality issue. People have it stuck in their minds that this is "griefing" and so anyone who uses a red shell is a bad person, and the game is bad because red shells exist.

Trying to control the firestarters and oculars in such a way that they attack the enemy team, while still being able to handle them with your own team is like riding a bull. It's incredibly fun, and even better when the enemy team is good at doing the same thing. In my opinion, intrepid should embrace this design and dig further into it.

Honestly, it's been some of the best times I've had in my entire gaming life, and people who complain about it are really missing out. I don't get mad at all when other teams do it to me, I'm proud of them for having the courage to actually play the game the way it should be played.

Who knows, maybe you might actually like shooting red shells if you stopped calling it griefing and started to enjoy it for what it is.

oddstero

The game isn't intended for cowards to have mobs kill other players but the current mechanics allow it. Either intentionally training mobs on others or stunning players so mobs kill them is pure and simple griefing, and also actionable. If you want to fight over a resource or area, flag up and do actual PVP.

Xeeg

oddstero wrote: »

The game isn't intended for cowards to have mobs kill other players but the current mechanics allow it. Either intentionally training mobs on others or stunning players so mobs kill them is pure and simple griefing, and also actionable. If you want to fight over a resource or area, flag up and do actual PVP.

Lol wtf are you even playing this game? Sounds like some kind of theoretical normy talking about a different game. I bet you have never even tried to kick out another team from a spot and taken it for your team. Who is the real coward?

This game is 100% designed for PVX. It has been said over and over and over.

Why do you think they create monsters that do big AOE damage in the hardest areas of the game? The whole point is to use them to fight other teams....

oddstero

And it's also been said repeatedly that training mobs is not intended and that the aggro mechanics are not functioning as intended by the developers. And ask the players that got sanctioned recently for training mobs if that's what Intrepid means by PVX? It's not, so stop trying to defend you intentionally griefing, and generally just being a jerk, in a test environment with "PVX."

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