Losing all caravan parts feels way too punishing given how easy they are to kill

Losing all your cargo feels like fair game, but losing the whole caravan? For how easy they are to kill, that feels way too punishing.

Suggestion:
1) Buying insurance before leaving town; cost scaled with quality of the insured part and how often caravans are killed in the region. Insured parts are restored upon caravan destruction. If the run is succesful, the insurance acts as a gold sink. Let the player choose their risk/reward ratio.
2) Heavily armored caravans should have massive health regeneration, like the high-HP 3-stars mobs as of this week. Thus you would need at least 2-3 very geared dps level 25s to do decent damage to a high armor caravan. Killing a caravan as a solo player should not be possible, given that attacking is completely free.
3) Driver should be immune while driving. Attacking a caravan should mean attacking a caravan, not dropping the driver while they're defenseless and then stop the caravan dead in its track while you gather your group.

(PS) Flying mount nerf: This one is a bit of a tangent, but infinite flying mounts in a caravan war context is extremely overpowered, both in terms of scouting and air-raiding. Yes, it's only for a few people on the server, but it's still incredibly oppressive with 0 counterplay possible. Limit flying mount usage to an elixir-like consumable that allows you to use it for X minutes, and afterwards it needs to rest until the following week. That way it's still very strong, but can't be a forever-OP bonus to guilds wanting to lock things down.

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Comments

EPMAN

If you fix a broken system with a broken system, wont make the system good.

When you listen to what they say about pvp, it will be the most insane system "made" for exploits, and only have littel risk vs rewards.

Veeshan

there not exactly hard to replace its 20 pieces of wood per piece.

I do amite the driver being so easily killed is probaly the biggest issue there no reason to build a defensive caravan when u just kil the driver off it within a few seconds and then u can take all the time in the world to kill it

Flying mount definitely need a nerf too

SmileGurney

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

Chicago

The other issue is, the amount of health the caravan has is useless right now, infact it makes you more of a target, if you don't with the initial fight, and the driver dies in 3 seconds the caravan is lost reguardless

Veeshan

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Veeshan

Chicago wrote: »

The other issue is, the amount of health the caravan has is useless right now, infact it makes you more of a target, if you don't with the initial fight, and the driver dies in 3 seconds the caravan is lost reguardless

yep this is the main issue atm imo with caravans (that and the bugs)

spungwa

2) Heavily armored caravans should have massive health regeneration, like the high-HP 3-stars mobs as of this week. Thus you would need at least 2-3 very geared dps level 25s to do decent damage to a high armor caravan. Killing a caravan as a solo player should not be possible, given that attacking is completely free.

For balance I would say.
If that is the case then heavy armored caravans should not be able to run with a single person. If a solo player can't kill it, then a solo player should not be able to pilot it alone.

SmileGurney

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

Veeshan

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

economic wars are real, burn caravans and remove gold from economy makes your gold go further.

SmileGurney

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

economic wars are real, burn caravans and remove gold from economy makes your gold go further.

That's great, this doesn't change the fact the attackers in such circumstance risk nothing.

Raetion

I agree that when your caravan is destroyed you should not lose all the upgraded items. Maybe make you lose 1-2 items and all the cargo. But not everything. It makes it feel even worse. And like others said Attackers have no risk. So they can attack every caravan they see without any issue.

Veeshan

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

economic wars are real, burn caravans and remove gold from economy makes your gold go further.

That's great, this doesn't change the fact the attackers in such circumstance risk nothing.

attacker risk there own caravan not only that they also loose the element of being hidden aswell since you know exactly where they be spawning their caravan to kill theirs back and reclaim your cargo.

sure they can crowbar the crates for like 10 silver reward.

Veeshan

Raetion wrote: »

I agree that when your caravan is destroyed you should not lose all the upgraded items. Maybe make you lose 1-2 items and all the cargo. But not everything. It makes it feel even worse. And like others said Attackers have no risk. So they can attack every caravan they see without any issue.

its a player run economy games items need to be destroyed to keep the economy going, mounts need a life span aswell and tbh gear kinda has a life span since it can break on enchant but may not be enough tbh.

otherwise crafters will be out of the job once everyone has everything say carpenter not gonna sell any caravan parts when every caravan is briarwood and dont loose anything when destroyed
No one gonna buy mounts anymore from mount makers when everyone has the fastest mount and so on.

SmileGurney

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

economic wars are real, burn caravans and remove gold from economy makes your gold go further.

That's great, this doesn't change the fact the attackers in such circumstance risk nothing.

attacker risk there own caravan not only that they also loose the element of being hidden aswell since you know exactly where they be spawning their caravan to kill theirs back and reclaim your cargo.

sure they can crowbar the crates for like 10 silver reward.

I think you are totally missing a point I'm making. You can attack a caravan, destroy it, and just leave. You risk nothing, and destroy quite a bit of assets.

In a game like Eve Online, if you attack someone elses ship, then you are risking your own. Here, not so much.

Imanek

I’ll add one more point.

There should also be a reward for a successful defense, similar to an event. If the caravan is defended and safely escorted to its destination, participants should receive some XP and glint.

To ensure fairness, the system should consider the scale of the attack and the effort required for defense to determine a balanced reward. For instance, if four defenders repel a single attacker, the reward will be minimal. However, in a 10v10 battle, the reward will be much more significant.

This way, more players will be encouraged to defend caravans for strangers—since, after all, players are driven by incentives.

Veeshan

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

economic wars are real, burn caravans and remove gold from economy makes your gold go further.

That's great, this doesn't change the fact the attackers in such circumstance risk nothing.

attacker risk there own caravan not only that they also loose the element of being hidden aswell since you know exactly where they be spawning their caravan to kill theirs back and reclaim your cargo.

sure they can crowbar the crates for like 10 silver reward.

I think you are totally missing a point I'm making. You can attack a caravan, destroy it, and just leave. You risk nothing, and destroy quite a bit of assets.

In a game like Eve Online, if you attack someone elses ship, then you are risking your own. Here, not so much.

Why do you think they would attack a caravan and then completely ignore the content or crowbar it for basicly less money than killing 3 mobs

People typicaly dont do that unless repuation is in play, that tell me either you or your guild has done something for somone to warrant spending the time to blow up a caravan for nothing to gain cause at that point they dont care about the loot they just dont want you to have it.

So in return if that is the case the player reputation will go down to you and probaly your guild too and potentialy bite them in the ass.
For me everyone/guild that destroys my caravan goes on a list and ill kill there caravan till i make the money i lost back

Veeshan

Imanek wrote: »

I’ll add one more point.

There should also be a reward for a successful defense, similar to an event. If the caravan is defended and safely escorted to its destination, participants should receive some XP and glint.

To ensure fairness, the system should consider the scale of the attack and the effort required for defense to determine a balanced reward. For instance, if four defenders repel a single attacker, the reward will be minimal. However, in a 10v10 battle, the reward will be much more significant.

This way, more players will be encouraged to defend caravans for strangers—since, after all, players are driven by incentives.

caravan owner should be paying the defenders tbh i do usualy when people defend my caravan for the trip usualy i split 20%-30% of the profit typically when trip is done

EPMAN

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

Veeshan wrote: »

SmileGurney wrote: »

I have to agree that caravans feel a bit one sided. Except the potential social / political fallout, the attackers have nothing to lose and everything to gain really. On other hand I'm not a fan of caravans being able to produce massive personal income. This just adds to economic imbalances this game is bound to suffer.

the attacks risk the caravan aswell they need 2 summon one to complete the run however the original defenders know exactly where the caravan is so they can regroup and push where the original defenders can tend to slip by unnoticed most of the time.

Why do you assume everyone wants to steal your stuff? Some people just to want burn sh..

economic wars are real, burn caravans and remove gold from economy makes your gold go further.

That's great, this doesn't change the fact the attackers in such circumstance risk nothing.

attacker risk there own caravan not only that they also loose the element of being hidden aswell since you know exactly where they be spawning their caravan to kill theirs back and reclaim your cargo.

sure they can crowbar the crates for like 10 silver reward.

I think you are totally missing a point I'm making. You can attack a caravan, destroy it, and just leave. You risk nothing, and destroy quite a bit of assets.

In a game like Eve Online, if you attack someone elses ship, then you are risking your own. Here, not so much.

I agree Eve system seems way better, other games have system that could be used as well.

Easy balance fix could be, that if you die when attacking a caravan, the defending team, will get gold equel, to what the repair cost of the attacker that died equipment is. Died attackers equipment won´t drop(full loot pvp), but only be 100% broken and need full repair(carebear pvp) Then you can keep, what seems to be the majority wish for carebear pvp, but also implant the Risk vs Reward, that Steven are talking about, but we still haven´t seen.

asheaustaire

I disagree - I just think you aren't doing what's intended gameplay. You should be working with players to secure your caravan.

Noaani

SmileGurney wrote: »

In a game like Eve Online, if you attack someone elses ship, then you are risking your own. Here, not so much.

The fact that caravans could be attacked by players with no risk at all to the attacker is something that has been discussed on these forums before.

However, adding a penalty or cost to attackers is probably not likely to happen. Intrepid have removed death penalties from caravans specifically in order to encourage people to engage with the system when they have nothing directly to gain or lose. They want people fighting over caravans.

The problem is, the attacker stands to gain if they win and suffer no penalty if they lose (by Intrepids specific design), while defenders stand to suffer penalties if they lose, but gain nothing if they win.

The whole thing is inherently unbalanced, and any attempt to balance it will (in Intrepids opinion) result in significantly fewer people engaging in the system unless they are directly impacted by the results.

Note that the above isn't my opinion - I actually disagree with it entierly. It is Intrepids opinion and their reasoning. If you assume they stick to their reasoning, I see no path at all towards caravans being worthwhile gameplay.

My opinion is that Intrepid shouldn't want people attacking a caravan unless they either specifically want what is on board, or they specifically want to deprive that guild or node of economic means. If it is just some random caravan passing by, in my opinion Intrepid should be discouraging people from engaging, not encouraging it.

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