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Rogue and bard design

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
After testing the rogue I strongly feel that whoever designed the bard and the rogue should design all the classes

It feels like those two classes are so far ahead in terms of everything compared to the mage, tank and ranger that they are playing a different game all together, the fighter feels decent but still a pass under the bard and two under the rogue.

I am hoping for class tuning with the rogue release but realistically these three classes need to be almost entirely re done to even come close to the rogue/ bard.

I don't think the rogue or bard are overtuned I think that whoever designed them did a fantastic job and I don't want to see them nerfed, however I do want to see other classes catch up

Comments

  • SmileGurneySmileGurney Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 16
    Yeah...I dislike the bard's skills when it comes to their visual and audio presentation. It's all too...whimsical and "cute" for me, BUT from the perspective of gameplay, bard is one of the few classes which are interesting to play as atm. The weakest in my book is probably the cleric.

    I don't have access to PTR so no rogue time for me, but bard's kit offers you playstyle options, and actual variety of what you are doing during combat. Too many classes are all about damage or all about healing. Their gameplay just feels...shallow and too focused on the one narrowly defined purpose. Bard just feels interactable, with multiple options on the table, even if Intrepid is trying its hardest atm to limit those.
    My lungs taste the air of Time,
    Blown past falling sands…
  • SpifSpif Member, Alpha Two
    Please don't load Bucky down with too many classes :)

    In P1, the mage felt pretty good. There is interaction between skills/combos and the debuffs, decent CC, good damage identity.

    It needs a few hard choices in the skill tree mostly, so you can only get deep into 2 of the 3 elements. Also a reactive/instant defensive CC (frost armor style or bladeturn maybe). Blink has too much good stuff associated with it, and that should be split out. It's not good having to burn a CC break AND insta-cast to use a mobility skill.

    Ranger needs some work, and I don't play tank, so I don't know.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 17
    Spif wrote: »
    Please don't load Bucky down with too many classes :)

    In P1, the mage felt pretty good. There is interaction between skills/combos and the debuffs, decent CC, good damage identity.

    It needs a few hard choices in the skill tree mostly, so you can only get deep into 2 of the 3 elements. Also a reactive/instant defensive CC (frost armor style or bladeturn maybe). Blink has too much good stuff associated with it, and that should be split out. It's not good having to burn a CC break AND insta-cast to use a mobility skill.

    Ranger needs some work, and I don't play tank, so I don't know.

    yeah ranger 100% need some work :D lack class identity (could be fixed by giving them like 20-30% range increase though) and they kinda lack skill synergy too compared to other classes.
    they havant touched ranger yet they have with all other classes now so hopefully there next to be look at somewhat soonihs

    any kind of balancing though is pointless atm till enchanting is addressed though
  • xenith_terrekxenith_terrek Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Chicago wrote: »
    After testing the rogue I strongly feel that whoever designed the bard and the rogue should design all the classes

    Agree 1000%. Was just saying this EXACT thing in Discord with my guild the last couple of days.
  • SmileGurneySmileGurney Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 21
    Spif wrote: »
    Please don't load Bucky down with too many classes :)
    Why? Bard and rogue are the only archetypes so far, maybe with the exception of fighter who have interesting or semi-interesting skillset and gameplay.

    We also need more classes which have personal and group utilities which actually matter instead of "just press this button to do damage" approach so many dps classes suffer from.

    I really tried to like tank experience. I cannot play cleric because the gameplay loop puts me to sleep. I will keep repeating myself, but Intrepid should put their game designs on Return of Reckoning server and ask them to play all different tank, healer/support AND dps classes. Maybe then we will get less one dimensional archetypes. Imagine if we got multiple styles of tanks, Swordmaster, Ironbreaker, The Knight of the Blazing Sun or Chosen. The cleric archetypes needs binning all together. I want to see playstyle options. I will take Warrior Priest, Disciple of Khaine, Shaman or Zealot gameplay over Cleric any day. Warts and all.
    My lungs taste the air of Time,
    Blown past falling sands…
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Bucky being lead class design would be good.
  • KaytosKaytos Member, Alpha Two
    totally agree except the Bard and what we see of the rogue the other classes are not great to play and I'm not even talking about the Tank which is a disaster. hard to understand so much difficulty for such basic classes.
  • SmileGurneySmileGurney Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 25
    Kaytos wrote: »
    totally agree except the Bard and what we see of the rogue the other classes are not great to play and I'm not even talking about the Tank which is a disaster. hard to understand so much difficulty for such basic classes.
    Other classes aren't that great to play, because they are too one dimensional, there is also no build variety or playstyle options you could switch between. Some of that stuff "might" come with the secondary archetypes, but its a big "if" and approx. 25 levels too late.
    My lungs taste the air of Time,
    Blown past falling sands…
  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    SmileGurney wrote: »
    Kaytos wrote: »
    totally agree except the Bard and what we see of the rogue the other classes are not great to play and I'm not even talking about the Tank which is a disaster. hard to understand so much difficulty for such basic classes.
    Other classes aren't that great to play, because they are too one dimensional, there is also no build variety or playstyle options you could switch between. Some of that stuff "might" come with the secondary archetypes, but its a big "if" and approx. 25 levels too late.
    The "one dimensional" issue for some archetypes is because not all the weapon options have been organized.

    Not getting into classes. Though, for example the Fighter is planned to have a choice between two-hand weapon and dual wielding. With different play styles for both.

    The Tanks is planned to have a choice between sword and board, and two-hand weapon.

    Personally, while some people love the Bard, I cannot seem to get into playing the Bard. Respect to those that enjoy playing the Bard. Though, I do not care for the Bard.

    Still, even the Bard is incomplete in someway, such as the different instrument selections are planned to all for differing play styles and effects.

  • SmileGurneySmileGurney Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 27
    willsummon wrote: »
    SmileGurney wrote: »
    Kaytos wrote: »
    totally agree except the Bard and what we see of the rogue the other classes are not great to play and I'm not even talking about the Tank which is a disaster. hard to understand so much difficulty for such basic classes.
    Other classes aren't that great to play, because they are too one dimensional, there is also no build variety or playstyle options you could switch between. Some of that stuff "might" come with the secondary archetypes, but its a big "if" and approx. 25 levels too late.
    The "one dimensional" issue for some archetypes is because not all the weapon options have been organized.

    Not getting into classes. Though, for example the Fighter is planned to have a choice between two-hand weapon and dual wielding. With different play styles for both.

    The Tanks is planned to have a choice between sword and board, and two-hand weapon.
    There is no real playstyle difference between a fighter or a tank with 1 handed, 2 handed weapons or dual wielding. Weapon "skill" trees contribute VERY little to how an archetype is played.
    My lungs taste the air of Time,
    Blown past falling sands…
  • SolonthebanditSolonthebandit Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    my combo pattern and priority changes as a fighter depending on my weapon choices. You could argue some builds feel like clear bis generally but to say fighter weapons dont result in a playstyle difference is wild
  • ImnotkioImnotkio Member, Alpha Two
    The class design is definitely good, but I think Ashes design in general has a mobility issue and these classes just highlight it.

    We need a nerf to universal dodge jump mechanics. Having a cooldown between dodges, nerfing the momentum and the distance traveled.

    I'd like to see Bard flourish be limited by one reset per cooldown time too. I haven't tested the rogue but I'm willing to guess the mobility on the class is too over the top too.

    While I think earlier classes (mage, ranger, tank, cleric) could use a rework in a lot of aspects, I believe the amount of mobility in those classes should be the standard for the game rather than everybody zooming around. Melee classes are the only exception because they need to close the gap and then back out alive, but it shouldn't be over the top either.
  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    Imnotkio wrote: »
    The class design is definitely good, but I think Ashes design in general has a mobility issue and these classes just highlight it.

    We need a nerf to universal dodge jump mechanics. Having a cooldown between dodges, nerfing the momentum and the distance traveled.

    I'd like to see Bard flourish be limited by one reset per cooldown time too. I haven't tested the rogue but I'm willing to guess the mobility on the class is too over the top too.

    While I think earlier classes (mage, ranger, tank, cleric) could use a rework in a lot of aspects, I believe the amount of mobility in those classes should be the standard for the game rather than everybody zooming around. Melee classes are the only exception because they need to close the gap and then back out alive, but it shouldn't be over the top either.
    Putting in those limits would have large affects on later class combinations.

    The archetypes on not end game. It is the classes that will be end game.
  • ImnotkioImnotkio Member, Alpha Two
    willsummon wrote: »
    Putting in those limits would have large affects on later class combinations.

    The archetypes on not end game. It is the classes that will be end game.

    Yeah, and you think what? the classes are going to be less mobile? It's only going to get worse from here. By the time we all have augments, this will be a fucking DBZ fight. Excessive mobility is not a good thing.
  • willsummonwillsummon Member, Alpha Two
    Imnotkio wrote: »
    willsummon wrote: »
    Putting in those limits would have large affects on later class combinations.

    The archetypes on not end game. It is the classes that will be end game.

    Yeah, and you think what? the classes are going to be less mobile? It's only going to get worse from here. By the time we all have augments, this will be a fucking DBZ fight. Excessive mobility is not a good thing.
    In a raid boss fight, excessive mobility is very welcome.

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