Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Why make everything so punishing??
Gigibytes
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I know the standard answer goes '' Well this game isn't for everyone .. so don't play it if you don't like the PVP/Lack of Fast Travel?Death Penalities/ Lack of Solo Play etc etc.
I say, why not make it more appealing to more people though? As an MMO Community we are kind've hanging out for 'the next big thing' for quite a while now. A lot of us have supported development by buying into the Alphas and giving 'testing' a go. We are entitled to give our opinions. A lot of us are old time MMO Players so we do have valid opinions. I for example spent over $700 Aussie Dollars supporting the game, so don't say I haven't been suportive
Why not tweak things so more players want to play? Why make everything super hard/super punishing? Many of us in RL have enough RL struggles,, we just want to escape into a game enjoy some playtime. We WANT to support a new game, a great game, one we can play for years! One we can solo OR group? Flag for PVP.. or not. Quest OR grind.
I agree, don't make things toooo easy - maybe the difficulty level of say Classic WoW -- which yes is still popular because it's not 'too' easy, people can play PVP or PVE, they can make Macro's, Quest, Spam Dungeons, Battlegrounds, Multibox (yes.. legally is ok .. don't get your knickers in a knot..) Group or not group etc etc.
I really don't get this whole NON fun, narrow minded approach?
I say, why not make it more appealing to more people though? As an MMO Community we are kind've hanging out for 'the next big thing' for quite a while now. A lot of us have supported development by buying into the Alphas and giving 'testing' a go. We are entitled to give our opinions. A lot of us are old time MMO Players so we do have valid opinions. I for example spent over $700 Aussie Dollars supporting the game, so don't say I haven't been suportive
Why not tweak things so more players want to play? Why make everything super hard/super punishing? Many of us in RL have enough RL struggles,, we just want to escape into a game enjoy some playtime. We WANT to support a new game, a great game, one we can play for years! One we can solo OR group? Flag for PVP.. or not. Quest OR grind.
I agree, don't make things toooo easy - maybe the difficulty level of say Classic WoW -- which yes is still popular because it's not 'too' easy, people can play PVP or PVE, they can make Macro's, Quest, Spam Dungeons, Battlegrounds, Multibox (yes.. legally is ok .. don't get your knickers in a knot..) Group or not group etc etc.
I really don't get this whole NON fun, narrow minded approach?
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What thing do you want from Ashes enough to maintain your interest all this time if you want Classic WoW difficulty (you can just basically list all the stuff you hate about Throne and Liberty or Elder Scrolls Online, for example).
"For what...?"
"Just about everything, really."
You also probably didn't look up Stevens vision enough before buying. ( I didn't... ). The game isn't made to be solo'd. You can get to cap solo. You can get pretty decent gear if you buy it. But so you do get to cap and get some gear, what then? Everything in the game is based off group content at level cap. If you allow PvP flagging than you have a completely different game way off target from the goal. Open PvP is going to keep alot of people away, and will make a lot more quit.
I've come the conclusion this game is more like a survival/crafting game. Yeah you got some simple rpg systems, but they're so basic they hardly matter, just stack your magic or physical power. No in class diversity, all 25 mages have all the same skills, ect. Only your gear matters when it comes to your 'build', and gear can be handed down from guildies, so there's no gear progression if it can be skipped. All these things remind me of something like Ark or Valheim, sure you got a level, but after a week or two everyone will be at cap, so you're basically just your gear and a lot of players won't "earn" it they'll be fed gear to pump the numbers for their Groups pvp goals. Some people may love this, fair, but it's not what I was looking for.
I think a lot of people were wanting something that was a throw back to the late 90s/early 2000s but innovated on, large, smoother, depth, meaningful content/story, rewarding challenges and punishing defeat systems. Wrapped up in an open world open PvP game it'd be awesome.
Because its an autistic PvP kids community and only what they say is good; they will never exept any other opinion; you spend money on an outdated project; there is no place for simple players; they will run game; they will have around 200 people playing it; and after die very fast and left only see how this kids will cry in reddit or other forums; 100% any mmo cannot stay alive if have no players
I'm pretty critical about this games direction with PvP, but it really seems like you guys just don't want to PvP at all. So why did you buy into Ashes? It's was very open about being a PvX game. No PvE servers. Nor are they trying to replace or even compete with games like WoW.
Personally I like RvR games, and it seems that Ashes is trying to make a dynamic RvR while still allowing infighting, which can be really awesome, but we'll see. Allowing PvP to be flagged off breaks basically everything. Could a PvE server work? Yeah, but then the game would be half of what its met to be.
I just don't understand the complaint against PvP though... it's a PvP game, if you don't like PvP why would you buy it?
Corruption is way over tuned
Gathering is boring, lackluster and not engaging at all
Level 1 crafting requirements are extremely over the top
It sort of feels like Intrepid have this idea that every single system in the game needs to be a 250 hour grind or its to easy
The other issue and I think this is a big one, intrepid so NOT play their game, even if they hide some alts in random guilds they are not actively engaging with the systems they created, they are spawning fully crafted legendary gear that removes any aspect of seeing how bad these systems are
Add to that the XP debt you get from death, no idea what it's adding to the game.
I enjoy RvR. I would love to engage in the RvR system but I do not want to go through the Wall Of killing 10's of thousands of mobs just to reach the point where the game might be a lot of fun. The scary part of this is that 25 is not even the level cap.
Well it's attractive to a lot of people. I'm a fairly casual player and it's not "too" punishing at all. And i'm a tank.
takes around 4 hours of travel...
This is exactly what I want. Hell make it 16 hours, and with a slow caravan it might be!
Same here. I guess, just don't test. I'll probably login for Rogue or when another Race comes out, but other than that I'm not testing anything unless they boost the exp, drops, materials, ect.(for the test, NOT the game) I gave up on actually testing because of inventory bugs deleting my items. I really wanted to dig deep into crafting so I went to go grind out some gathering again and just walked away. I don't expect a test to be fun, but also didn't expect to have to grind so much for it too.
Seems as if someone forgot the notion that risk vs reward *can* (as in, not always) make a fun thing more fun. If the activity isn't fun, risk vs reward makes it even more not fun.
In order for a game with a high sense of risk vs reward to be successful, the core gameplay loops of that game (combat, gathering, crafting) need to be exceptional examples of their type. They need to objectively be the best of the best, not just average.
its punishing because people are use to instant results.. no one likes to grind anything anymore. no one likes to earn anything. just wants participation rewards. i like how everything takes a long time and is hard to acheive. crafters for example, i want to see a GM crafter and say damn.. he put in some work.
.. to expand on the fast travel, I'd be happy with a one-hour CD type hearth.. It helps if you need to log off suddenly and is generally a nice way to round out a session of gaming.. ie hearth, repair, park
... eg so you've finally found copper .. then u loose it
I'd love to come back. Once I hear people are actually HAVING FUN and my personal time seems worth spending, I'll come back.
Until then, I'll be lurking in Discord and here on the forums.
This is basically what it boils down to.
Different people have different ideas of what disrespecting ones time looks like, but no one likes it when they feel their time isn't respected.
Thanks for clarifications, I hope it helps the team.
Hopefully someone will let you know when they think you will start to have fun, based on your list above.
"For what...?"
"Just about everything, really."
Why? Because we have entire garbage bins filled with MMO's that have what you want. We don't need another. What I don't understand is why we have people like you constantly coming in here and trying to get dad gamer mentality shoved in.
I also have limited time, Im no longer a 20 year college student that has nothing going on. I won't be able to get to max level instantly, I won't be able to travel 4 hours straight in game, I won't get the best gear. THAT IS FINE. Not everything needs to be given on a silver platter all the time. The adventure is the fun, its what made old school MMO's fun. Like I said, there are plenty of games that offer that, go play those. Yeah thats harsh but what you want goes against everything Steven has said over the years.
I will say the same thing as Intrepid has, the game is currently in the worst state it will ever be. They will add more activities, solo content, features, etc. You will have stuff to do. Just don't come in here demanding Intrepid caters to players that want instant gratification, you have those games already, go play them or learn to appreciate what AoC is trying to create.
Gosh, what a mean reaction you have to my post. You are wrong saying that there are 'garbage bins filled with MMO's that I want to play .. ' . You actually have NO IDEA what MMO I desire to play! If there were so many, why would I even have made my post here?
I never asked for instant gratification .. my words were ' Why not tweak things so more players want to play'
Also, you labeling people 'dad gamers' and 'zoomers' -- what gives you the right to label us that take the time to make posts with our feedback or opinions? I'm seeing a toxic attitude, of someone trying to bully people..
I should be able express opinion here without being attacked by people like you. It's because I actually do care a lot about the outcome of AoC that I'm honest enough to speak my mind.
At the moment, no, the game 'isn't for me'. My original post was not intended as just a whinge, but actually as genuine questioning as to why the overall feel is punishing.
I'll be coming back in a few months with a fresh mindset after a break to see if it feels different, hopefully, I won't bump into any one like you ....
This is the best statement here.
Some people see a long grind as disrespecting their time. Others, like me, think that gaining five levels in a single session is what truly makes my time feel wasted. Just to be clear, I’m not saying you personally want that kind of speed—I’m just using it as a general example to explain my perspective. When leveling happens too fast, it feels so insignificant that it might as well not exist as a system at all. The game could just start you at endgame, and nothing of value would be lost. I understand that different players have different tolerances for leveling speed, but so far, I don’t mind Ashes’ leveling curve—especially knowing that quests, story arcs, world events, and other features will continue to be added to enrich the process.
One of the biggest challenges in MMO design is balancing fun with efficiency. A really insightful article on this topic is Water Finds a Crack, which explores a key truth about player behavior: “Players will always optimize the fun out of a game if given the opportunity.” If a game allows for a more efficient but less engaging way to play, many players will default to it, even at the cost of their own enjoyment. This is why Ashes is designed to nudge players toward more meaningful, social, and immersive gameplay rather than the kind of fast-track systems that dominate modern MMOs. It’s not just about making things “harder for the sake of being hard”—it’s about creating an experience where taking the most rewarding path also happens to be the most enjoyable one.
For me, that’s where the “punishing” aspects of Ashes actually enhance the game. Having a penalty for death forces me to think twice before taking risks, which makes the world feel more dangerous and, in turn, more alive. It also encourages me to prepare for challenges rather than just running in blindly, which adds to the sense of adventure.
A death penalty also plays a crucial role in Ashes’ PvP ecosystem. In games without meaningful consequences, reckless and trollish behavior is rampant—because why not? If nothing is at stake, people will pick fights just for the hell of it. But when death has real consequences, most players will think before they act, making for a more rational, engaging, and strategic experience. Sure, higher-level players might still attack lower-level ones, but the corruption system is intended to curb that behavior (even if it still needs tuning in the alpha). Plus, once nodes are fully functional, I expect that players will form real communities within them, leading to a vested interest in keeping their local region safe. People leveling within a node’s ZOI is beneficial for its citizens. Successful caravans help everyone in the region. Of course, bad actors will still exist, but those players might find themselves blacklisted or actively hunted by the community.
Beyond just the mechanics, Ashes is trying to bring back the social nature of MMOs—something many of us miss. And I’m not saying that you don’t enjoy social play, but rather that modern MMOs have increasingly catered to solo players. When that option exists, people will naturally take it, even when it leads to a worse long-term experience. The best way to bring back the community-driven MMO experience is to design a game that encourages and rewards social play rather than making solo play viable.
That said, I can understand how some of the mechanics might feel harsher if you weren’t as deeply familiar with the game’s vision before jumping into the alpha. To be clear, I’m not saying you personally weren’t informed before buying in, but I’ve seen a lot of posts from people who seem to have a very different expectation of what Ashes was going to be. It just seems likely that many of them didn’t follow the game closely before purchasing an alpha key, which would naturally make some of these mechanics feel more punishing than intended. Right now, there are very few tutorials, intro questlines, or structured onboarding systems to ease players into the world, and a lot of the systems meant to balance the difficulty are still being built.
For me personally, though, Ashes is exactly the game I expected it to be. I’ve followed its development for over four years, watched every monthly livestream, and listened to nearly every developer interview. Everywhere that the game doesn’t quite feel right yet, it seems obvious to me that it’s simply due to the state of the alpha—systems are unfinished, missing, or buggy. But in terms of its core philosophy and design, it’s exactly what I signed up for.
I get that Ashes isn’t going to appeal to everyone, and that’s okay. Trying to make a game that pleases everyone usually results in something that doesn’t truly satisfy anyone. But for those of us who love the challenge, the weight of our decisions, and the social aspects of old-school MMOs, this game feels like a breath of fresh air. Steven, being part of this audience himself, just wants to make a game that those people can truly love.
A lot of it is probably my own expectations and perhaps you are right about
We will see what the future holds
I would like to see more war types that would manipulate the death penalty in regard to pvp. Like lets say your trying to slow down a node from gathering resources while trying to get ahead u send people out to PK the enemy node/guild to stop them gathering however there always gonna get 50% safely cause they retain 50% of items and you only get 25% as a reward so no matter what the enemy side gains 25% materials over you. I feel some wars should alter penalties and things like having a resource war over an area and they drop 50 and retain 25% so it flipped i think would go well (of course instant war decs need to change a little first here tbh)
Cause if both of those things are true, then I have issues with the whole premise of resource wars.
I'd prefer if the war event spawned its own special trees and anyone with those trees in their inventory would visually stand out to the war opponent. And then a high percentage OF JUST THOSE SPECIAL TREES would drop on death.
As someone who's actively dodging a war irl, I'd prefer if normal people in nodes could do the same. Obviously they'd still be able to be killed for free, because ultimately war is still war, but impact on their own gameplay should not be impacted so strongly, as long as those players do not choose to actively participate in the war process.
WAR BAGS. When the war starts, you come to an npc in the node and get a war bag for loot. This designates you as a soldier (i.e. high value target) and now anything that you pick up in the vicinity of the war territory can only go into that bag. And when you get killed, you drop 75% of the bag's contents (nothing is destroyed).
All of those mechanics are already in the game and would just require some slight renaming of nomenclature and an additional clause of "if this bag equipped in war territory - only this bag functions". We already have specific territory drops (mob events), so even that is kinda already implemented as a possible feature.
Now willing war participants know the risks, know who to kill if they see them (and the potential reward that comes with it), while normal citizens can still exist within their node during the war w/o being permdead because the opponent doesn't know who to kill so they kill everyone.
The thing is, your idea of lack of respect for players time isn’t mutually exclusive with mine.
I don't want to game 5 levels a day - I don't actually care about levels in this specific discussion.
What I care about is what I get for my time. New abilities, access to new mechanics, access to new content. If I put in 20 hours and am successful in my endeavor, I expect to get access to something for that time spent.
No where in your notion of respect for player time do you talk about feeling that you need to be kept on the same content, with only access to the same mechanics.
To support this, if you look at people on test that are complaining about slow leveling, you will find that they are actually complaining about not having anything to move on to when they get bored with existing content.
That is what people that say they want fast leveling really want, they want to move on to something new. In most games, that means moving on to higher level content, but that isn't actually a requirement to make these people happy.
If you like being on the same content for dozens of hours, Intrepid adding more content for people that don't want that shouldn't affect you, as you can pick your piece of content and stay there - even I enjoy grinding one spot on occasion.
That is the thing about respecting players time. There is very little actual clash of what people consider respect of their time - when you dive deep enough in to it. If we were to dive in to your desire to have every aspect of every activity you do in game requiring thought and planning so as to not result in you regressing, I have no doubt we would be able to find that your desire there doesn't in fact clash with many other players desire to be able to spend some time just fucking around with friends because it is fun. We may need to break each desire down to the reasons behind them.
While it is true that we all have different things we want in regards to respecting our time, the notion that there is much of a clash within that just doesn't track with me. It is that we each have our own things, rather than we each have mutually exclusive things.
Great point Noaani, it's not always about the 'level' but the feeling like we are progressing and being remunerated for our time and efforts.