Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Ashes of Creation: Alpha Two: Tank Archetype: My tank experience (levels 1-15+)
gh0stdaddy
Member, Alpha Two
Hi there. I am an experienced and decorated tank-centric player.
I wanted to share my feedback and constructive criticism with the AOC developers and community regarding my experience playing tank from levels 1 through almost 15.
I must say that I’m not here to be negative. Rather, this is done with the best intentions of improving and creating the kind of game and community that I think many of us are dreaming of.
Therefore, today I am solely going to be discussing my experience as a new player and new tank, to this game, and what it was like for me play the tank archetype from levels 1-15ish (16 and half to be precise)
I think we can probably all agree that having quality tanks is a prerequisite to a successful MMO in which there is a tanking role.
A seemingly common and fundamental issue of any MMO is tanks. Having, developing and/or maintaining enough of them. And how a lack of tanks, let alone quality ones, has negative effects for the MMO, such as limiting the ability to do content and generally progress.
Being a tank and lover of tanking I have a vested interest in this and want to see both tanks, in general, and AOC flourish. I think, and hope, that AOC could finally be the MMO that nails tanking and consequently because a very successful MMO.
My experience with AOC’s tank archetype skills so far is mixed. I like a lot of the skills. They are fun to use with cool animations but some of them are a bit lackluster. They don’t hit the same way the fighter’s and and ranger’s skills do which is addictive. Also the tank class seems to be lacking an identity as of right now. And it’s not clear how and why some of the skills fit into the tank’s kit. Some skills seem to net such minimal gains to make them not worth it, at least early on.
Tanking to begin with should be simple. Something like hold agro and don’t die. Unfortunately, I’ve found those to be temporary and dicey propositions at best for a new tank. The lack of tanginess and skills early causes issue for tanks. For example, I found myself having to tailor my build to adapt to farming, solo play, varieties of group play, etc… I had to respec my skills each time to try to meet the demands of the content and/or group I was playing with. I did find that the combat system started opening up around level 12-14 and I was enjoying the combat. But I hope AOC will work to make necessary skills, for a variety of situations, more accessible to newer tanks in the future.
Generally, in my experience, the tank isn’t much fun in solo play. Farming, etc. is a big part of AOC and one which so far, personally, I find to be excessively grindy, especially on a tank. The tank is generally slower than other archetypes and less suited to solo play. In competing for gathering, the tank is gonna lose out on most drops due to speed and low damage disadvantages. Also, the tank might be unable to fight mobs that might be guarding key resources which other archetypes might have no problem with. I had an experience in which I saw a couple of raven to pet surrounded by 3 ravens, a rare occurrence. I engaged the ravens and by the time I was done fighting them a person had come up petted the two ravens and jetted off. All of this puts tanks at distinct disadvantages compared to other archetypes when farming, gathering etc… Nor, as far as I’m aware, can you put on other sets to increase your dps and/or hop on another character to farm and put your profits in a shared bank. No, rather, you’re stuck with a tank and all its disadvantages at all times besides switching a few skills.
Also, I originally planned on focusing on heavy armor, as I figured that most other non-tank players probably wouldn’t be interested in these crafts. So far it feels like I’m a million miles away from reaching this goal. So far I’ve harvested very little metal, not even seeing copper for over a week after this phase of the games’ launch. The only crafts that I’m apprentice in are lumberjacking and mining. I hope AOC will work to make farming, gathering, processing, crafting more accessible to tank players.
I don’t think that it’s an exaggeration to say that my experience leveling so far has been a nightmare. And I’m lucky to have some advantages that many tanks may not have coming to AOC as new players. First I’m an experienced tank in another game. Also, I’m a member of a small guild, many of whom transferred to AOC from another game. What I’ve found is that early on leveling most people are running around exploring and enjoying the new content.
Unfortunately, these non-tank players are more suited to solo content and content in general and rapidly out leveled me.
In my experience pug grinding is a 50/50 chance whether you’re going to be successful or just lose all the xp that you’ve been suffering for.
Also, a huge part of being a tank is learning by taking the hits and learning what you can and cannot take. Personally, I find the existence of pinnacle/hell levels and xp debt in this game to be extremely punishing and untenable for tanks, so much so that I have stopped playing the game as a result.
It took me four days to get from level 9-10. Pinnacle levels are an old school MMO idea that, besides AOC, has largely gone the way of the dodo, and I personally think that’s a good thing. Feeling relieved rather than a sense of accomplishment is not what I think anyone should be shooting for while designing a game. I’m sure that the masochists out there will object.
XP debt is probably the single worst thing for me personally, as a tank, and for the community. I’m usually a calm centered person. I have found that dying, often while learning or due to no fault of my own, due to the regression, royally pisses me off and makes me an angry person and player. That’s not who I am and who I want to be and as a result I’ve stopped playing the game. But, my personal situation aside, my theory is that xp debt is a horrible system for AOC. One of the reasons I like playing tank is to challenge myself and I get a rush out of pushing the limits. The existence of xp debt has encouraged me to play it safe and be a conservative tank rather than being the courageous and daring tank that I am. Also, the tank archetype, would be better named “the guardian” or some such, due to skills that redirect damage to the tank. Personally, if they can contribute to me dying, i.e. I don’t know why any tank would ever use these skills and risk dying. Finally, I think that xp debt fosters exclusion from groups, activities, etc. rather than fostering inclusion. Also, although subtle, I’ve seen small changes in my guildies becoming more on edge and angry from xp debt. When a player dies in AOC and has to revive or be resurrected they are already losing out on a lot. There’s a time/xp loss due to having to revive or be resurrected. You are already losing out on mats, glint, etc. but there’s also a 50/50 chance that your stuff won’t be there anyways. But for tanks these stakes are even higher. Often when the tank dies the group wipes. And when the group wipes the group often disbands. Finally, the tank, especially at lower levels, will often be the first to die and will usually die much more often than the other group members. And who is the least able and easy to recover from these losses? Thats right, you guessed it, the tank. I don’t know what function xp debt serves? But in my experience for tanks the costs are just too punishingly high and there’s also the personal/interpersonal cost to think of as well.
Personally, if you aren’t going to abolish xp and hell levels, I’d recommend halving the xp requirement for tank levels and abolishing or greatly minimizing the xp debt for tanks.
Finally, all of this comes down to the $64,000 question. Is AOC/tank/AOC tanking fun? First, we must remember that this isn’t a game, it’s an alpha. But while I have had fun with AOC I don’t find AOC/tank/AOC tanking to be fun. Part of this is I think a lack of fun design. Nintendo famously looked at every aspect of Zelda: Breath of the Wild for how they could maximize players enjoyment and fun. I would challenge the AOC development team to consider a similar design philosophy.
Remember, this is just my personal 0-15ish leveling experience review. I haven’t done a deep dive on many aspects of AOC/tanking. But basically, AOC could design tank to be fun but it’s not there yet. Unfortunately, right now, the opposite is true, by design, and I don’t think tank/tanking is in a good spot and fun. So I can’t recommend tank. And if I can’t recommend tanking, in a MMO with tanks, then I can’t recommend the MMO.
Some of my friends and guildies likened our time in another MMO to staying too long in an abusive relationship. For me AOC, hasn’t been like that but with xp debt, it feels like a relationship in which my time isn’t valued and respected, especially as a tank. I think that this game would be extremely punishing to newer tanks, with more limited time, etc. I hope AOC hears my and similar feedback and better designs tank to be a challenging and rewarding archetype and experience.
Update:
I took a month break from the game because I just wasn’t having fun playing tank in Ashes of Creation. I came back a month later and created a fighter and ranger on the same day. I’ve leveled both to almost 10. Both of them are a ton of fun and the skills are pretty much addictive. It’s like playing a whole new game. I stand by my original experience with my tank and I’ve played a little bit on my tank since and still feel about the same. I still think that xp debt and hell levels are counter productive and potentially harmful for the game. But they are no where near as punishing on the other classes as for the tank. I also think that it was good for me personally to let things calm down at that pressure cooker of a start. I plan on doing an in depth review on tank skills but I have to say that Absorption Field is one of the most beautiful skills I’ve seen to date.
To end this on a positive note, in my opinion, there needs to be some work done to make the tank in Ashes of Creation viable and rewarding. But I’m inspired by the balance, beauty and fun of the other classes that I’ve played so far that tank become their equal and be fun to play.
I wanted to share my feedback and constructive criticism with the AOC developers and community regarding my experience playing tank from levels 1 through almost 15.
I must say that I’m not here to be negative. Rather, this is done with the best intentions of improving and creating the kind of game and community that I think many of us are dreaming of.
Therefore, today I am solely going to be discussing my experience as a new player and new tank, to this game, and what it was like for me play the tank archetype from levels 1-15ish (16 and half to be precise)
I think we can probably all agree that having quality tanks is a prerequisite to a successful MMO in which there is a tanking role.
A seemingly common and fundamental issue of any MMO is tanks. Having, developing and/or maintaining enough of them. And how a lack of tanks, let alone quality ones, has negative effects for the MMO, such as limiting the ability to do content and generally progress.
Being a tank and lover of tanking I have a vested interest in this and want to see both tanks, in general, and AOC flourish. I think, and hope, that AOC could finally be the MMO that nails tanking and consequently because a very successful MMO.
My experience with AOC’s tank archetype skills so far is mixed. I like a lot of the skills. They are fun to use with cool animations but some of them are a bit lackluster. They don’t hit the same way the fighter’s and and ranger’s skills do which is addictive. Also the tank class seems to be lacking an identity as of right now. And it’s not clear how and why some of the skills fit into the tank’s kit. Some skills seem to net such minimal gains to make them not worth it, at least early on.
Tanking to begin with should be simple. Something like hold agro and don’t die. Unfortunately, I’ve found those to be temporary and dicey propositions at best for a new tank. The lack of tanginess and skills early causes issue for tanks. For example, I found myself having to tailor my build to adapt to farming, solo play, varieties of group play, etc… I had to respec my skills each time to try to meet the demands of the content and/or group I was playing with. I did find that the combat system started opening up around level 12-14 and I was enjoying the combat. But I hope AOC will work to make necessary skills, for a variety of situations, more accessible to newer tanks in the future.
Generally, in my experience, the tank isn’t much fun in solo play. Farming, etc. is a big part of AOC and one which so far, personally, I find to be excessively grindy, especially on a tank. The tank is generally slower than other archetypes and less suited to solo play. In competing for gathering, the tank is gonna lose out on most drops due to speed and low damage disadvantages. Also, the tank might be unable to fight mobs that might be guarding key resources which other archetypes might have no problem with. I had an experience in which I saw a couple of raven to pet surrounded by 3 ravens, a rare occurrence. I engaged the ravens and by the time I was done fighting them a person had come up petted the two ravens and jetted off. All of this puts tanks at distinct disadvantages compared to other archetypes when farming, gathering etc… Nor, as far as I’m aware, can you put on other sets to increase your dps and/or hop on another character to farm and put your profits in a shared bank. No, rather, you’re stuck with a tank and all its disadvantages at all times besides switching a few skills.
Also, I originally planned on focusing on heavy armor, as I figured that most other non-tank players probably wouldn’t be interested in these crafts. So far it feels like I’m a million miles away from reaching this goal. So far I’ve harvested very little metal, not even seeing copper for over a week after this phase of the games’ launch. The only crafts that I’m apprentice in are lumberjacking and mining. I hope AOC will work to make farming, gathering, processing, crafting more accessible to tank players.
I don’t think that it’s an exaggeration to say that my experience leveling so far has been a nightmare. And I’m lucky to have some advantages that many tanks may not have coming to AOC as new players. First I’m an experienced tank in another game. Also, I’m a member of a small guild, many of whom transferred to AOC from another game. What I’ve found is that early on leveling most people are running around exploring and enjoying the new content.
Unfortunately, these non-tank players are more suited to solo content and content in general and rapidly out leveled me.
In my experience pug grinding is a 50/50 chance whether you’re going to be successful or just lose all the xp that you’ve been suffering for.
Also, a huge part of being a tank is learning by taking the hits and learning what you can and cannot take. Personally, I find the existence of pinnacle/hell levels and xp debt in this game to be extremely punishing and untenable for tanks, so much so that I have stopped playing the game as a result.
It took me four days to get from level 9-10. Pinnacle levels are an old school MMO idea that, besides AOC, has largely gone the way of the dodo, and I personally think that’s a good thing. Feeling relieved rather than a sense of accomplishment is not what I think anyone should be shooting for while designing a game. I’m sure that the masochists out there will object.
XP debt is probably the single worst thing for me personally, as a tank, and for the community. I’m usually a calm centered person. I have found that dying, often while learning or due to no fault of my own, due to the regression, royally pisses me off and makes me an angry person and player. That’s not who I am and who I want to be and as a result I’ve stopped playing the game. But, my personal situation aside, my theory is that xp debt is a horrible system for AOC. One of the reasons I like playing tank is to challenge myself and I get a rush out of pushing the limits. The existence of xp debt has encouraged me to play it safe and be a conservative tank rather than being the courageous and daring tank that I am. Also, the tank archetype, would be better named “the guardian” or some such, due to skills that redirect damage to the tank. Personally, if they can contribute to me dying, i.e. I don’t know why any tank would ever use these skills and risk dying. Finally, I think that xp debt fosters exclusion from groups, activities, etc. rather than fostering inclusion. Also, although subtle, I’ve seen small changes in my guildies becoming more on edge and angry from xp debt. When a player dies in AOC and has to revive or be resurrected they are already losing out on a lot. There’s a time/xp loss due to having to revive or be resurrected. You are already losing out on mats, glint, etc. but there’s also a 50/50 chance that your stuff won’t be there anyways. But for tanks these stakes are even higher. Often when the tank dies the group wipes. And when the group wipes the group often disbands. Finally, the tank, especially at lower levels, will often be the first to die and will usually die much more often than the other group members. And who is the least able and easy to recover from these losses? Thats right, you guessed it, the tank. I don’t know what function xp debt serves? But in my experience for tanks the costs are just too punishingly high and there’s also the personal/interpersonal cost to think of as well.
Personally, if you aren’t going to abolish xp and hell levels, I’d recommend halving the xp requirement for tank levels and abolishing or greatly minimizing the xp debt for tanks.
Finally, all of this comes down to the $64,000 question. Is AOC/tank/AOC tanking fun? First, we must remember that this isn’t a game, it’s an alpha. But while I have had fun with AOC I don’t find AOC/tank/AOC tanking to be fun. Part of this is I think a lack of fun design. Nintendo famously looked at every aspect of Zelda: Breath of the Wild for how they could maximize players enjoyment and fun. I would challenge the AOC development team to consider a similar design philosophy.
Remember, this is just my personal 0-15ish leveling experience review. I haven’t done a deep dive on many aspects of AOC/tanking. But basically, AOC could design tank to be fun but it’s not there yet. Unfortunately, right now, the opposite is true, by design, and I don’t think tank/tanking is in a good spot and fun. So I can’t recommend tank. And if I can’t recommend tanking, in a MMO with tanks, then I can’t recommend the MMO.
Some of my friends and guildies likened our time in another MMO to staying too long in an abusive relationship. For me AOC, hasn’t been like that but with xp debt, it feels like a relationship in which my time isn’t valued and respected, especially as a tank. I think that this game would be extremely punishing to newer tanks, with more limited time, etc. I hope AOC hears my and similar feedback and better designs tank to be a challenging and rewarding archetype and experience.
Update:
I took a month break from the game because I just wasn’t having fun playing tank in Ashes of Creation. I came back a month later and created a fighter and ranger on the same day. I’ve leveled both to almost 10. Both of them are a ton of fun and the skills are pretty much addictive. It’s like playing a whole new game. I stand by my original experience with my tank and I’ve played a little bit on my tank since and still feel about the same. I still think that xp debt and hell levels are counter productive and potentially harmful for the game. But they are no where near as punishing on the other classes as for the tank. I also think that it was good for me personally to let things calm down at that pressure cooker of a start. I plan on doing an in depth review on tank skills but I have to say that Absorption Field is one of the most beautiful skills I’ve seen to date.
To end this on a positive note, in my opinion, there needs to be some work done to make the tank in Ashes of Creation viable and rewarding. But I’m inspired by the balance, beauty and fun of the other classes that I’ve played so far that tank become their equal and be fun to play.
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