Combat - Why it feels basic right now.

Shadow Phoenix

I've been thinking about what feels off about the combat in the game for a while now, having played the 3 main archetypes - DPS, Healer, Tank. So far, for me, it feels like it boils down to the weapon system that is currently in place, how it is implemented, and why it feels extremely basic and boring.

The current system, I realized, makes it feel like I'm playing a weapon with some skills attached to it, and not a class picking a weapon I to compliment my playstyle. Everything is guided by the weapon at the moment, and it is done in such a way that it makes it feel like the player is a beginner at a dance studio learning to count their rhythm - 1, 2, 3 step....1, 2, 3, step. I am drawn away from 'participating' in combat because I have sit there and count out the combo of my weapon (and it's made worse by Deadly, Extended, etc...finishers) to the point that I don't even need half the skills most of the time and can just hit auto-attack and be done with it.

It almost feels, and I really hate to put it this way, like the system is being developed for a mobile input where the system does most of the heavy lifting and I can just sit back and hit a key or two after the combo does its thing. Is that a little exaggerated, sure, since input is needed a bit more often than that, but doing so breaks the combo set-up and results in a loss of some buff or the other that is needed. The additional input, when it is done, has a very "spam like" feels to it, where I feel like I'm either adding some blocks/mitigating abilities, or as a healer I spam some heals and go back to auto-attack waiting for the next big hit, or I throw some skills in to add to the proc my auto-attack triggered from the 1-2-3 Finisher.

Volgaris

It's simple. Maybe by design? Maybe an alpha placeholder? Who knows really, I don't think Intrepid knows, if they do know then they still won't tell us. I think they have some commitment issues too with some of their systems lol.

This is part of the larger problem in combat. The Power Level Stacking, 1 stat to rule them all thing. The stripped down skill trees. There's 1 way to get more powerful, increase your gear score, i mean power level.. Your weapon selection is going to be which one has the higher powerlevel. You may chose to keep a slightly less powerful spellbook because you like the procs, but if a wand pops up with a higher or equal powerlevel you'll be swapping to it. The weapon procs are fine, but it does behave like you're playing the weapon. There appears to be a lot of player agency over the character, but after you brush away the fluff there's actually very little. You get to pick a race, has no bearing your characters stats, then you pick your class, your class is just your skill tree. You get to pick one skill each level from this tree, and all other players of this class will have the same skills, so you're just like them. The only thing that'll be unique is your gear, and that's the real grind, the gear treadmill. With no BOP/BOE, no gear destructions (aside from corruption). The realms will be flooded with gear on the market place, guilds will be passing it down to new players to 'power' level them. Every gear choice will be rooted in it's Power Level rating. So you're not really making a choice, you're just hunting for the higher power level. Leveling up in this game is so anti climatic it's actually kind of depressing, especially after one of the 'hell' levels. All that work to select a single skill that has so impact on the character. With the game being so competitive and so simple at it's core I don't think it's going to hold attention from people who have been craving an in-depth mmo.

I don't see any of this changing. Too much is tied into the current system. All the data they've been collecting would be void if they started swapping out stats and mechanics around combat. Seeing them struggle with balancing enchanting is an obvious sign to things to come. And this isn't an easy thing to do, so I'm not trashing their efforts or work. But as a player who wants the game to succeed I look for cracks in the hull. But if they only have one dial to turn to balance things than there will be issues.

Could the game still be fun with simple combat? Well yeah for a bit, the combat is fun, in the same way street fighter is fun, or the same way a first person shooter is. But in those games you compete with people on an even field. Here you'll have to compete with people who have double, triple, or more power than you do. Since that's carries the most weight in a 1v1 fight you'll need to jump on the treadmill to, if you don't you'll never be able to compete in pvp, which is 80% of the game after cap. With no BOP or BOE people will be doing RMT to acquire power without the grind, which will encourage more to do it.

So do you like simple but fun combat?
Are satisfied with one stat determining your worth in combat?
Are you okay with players of the same class having the same skills because minimal skill selection?
Are you willing to grind endless hours for materials and/or gear to compete in PvP. Are you willing to compete with people who have purchased gear outside the game to gain power?

Azherae

We're so far from this mattering yet that all we can do is eventually tell them what feels better when they eventually do overhaul things, and they probably will.

If anything, that's probably the reason why, even with knowing my own bias, I still find myself seriously wondering when people say things like 'I'm really enjoying the combat'. Like... what were they even playing until now?

Imanek

Honestly, it's really a matter of personal taste. Personally, I find the dynamic animations pretty cool and well-crafted. But you have to keep an open mind and remember that we're talking about a game still in development, with work that's already been done and plenty more to come – like 25 more levels to unlock and a dual-class system that's on the way.

That being said, I get what you mean about the feeling of auto-attacks being too present, and you explain it very well. Having to combine it with combos makes things feel a bit messy – it's hard to tell where it's going. Plus, the weapon trees feel quite similar, and the fact that everyone can use everything, I'm not really a fan of that. I'm really looking forward to seeing improvements on that aspect for Phase 3.

SmileGurney

TTK issue aside, I find weapon "skill" trees mostly disappointing. There is nothing interesting about the vast majority of passive bonuses.

What I dislike about combat fundamentals is how you often get little feedback about that you are getting targeted, hit, and what skill is being fired at you or in your direction. I also had cases of a clear desync between VFX, SFX and what is happening on your screen. I would hear a snipe being fired, only to get hit 1-2 seconds later with NO visual indication of a projectile flying at me. My latency to the server is more than fine, obviously no idea about other combatants.

Also I would like that if I'm actually targeting someone ALL abilities should be shown as being cast under my target's nameplate, and not just selected few.

Imnotkio

Imanek wrote: »

That being said, I get what you mean about the feeling of auto-attacks being too present, and you explain it very well. Having to combine it with combos makes things feel a bit messy – it's hard to tell where it's going.

I agree with this sentiment, but my main issue is that it is an auto-attack instead of a proper manual weapon attack. The feeling I have is that the combo system was designed for a combat without auto attacks, and the QoL option of auto-attacks was added by A2 start, and it completely trivialized the system. Now you have to sit there and semi-afk combo to wait for procs before playing your class, instead of manually combing.

I'd hope for a weapon attack system either without the auto-attack options of with actual rewards and incentives to use manual weapon attacks, increasing the complexity and fun of the combat.

ChickenInSpace

The best way to break up the one, two, three, step, would be to allow weapon combos to be paused by skills, not interrupted.

This would solve A LOT of things, from PvP, to engaging PvE.

However I feel certain that this would require some quality back-end tinkering to work smoothly.
By all means doable even if it would need some time to code.