Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Sieges, Ships and... Quests?
Imnotkio
Member, Alpha Two
This week was packed, so I figured I would give feedback on the new systems.
Sieges
Issues
Suggestions
Let me preface with something here. We know some of this stuff is planned, but we don't know to what extent. So I might suggest something that is already planned. No need to tell me, I'm just giving feedback on the current implementation
Naval
Issues
Suggestions
Quests
That's right, Questing feedback. I am leveling the rogue, and unlike the other times I leveled, I am doing leveling mostly following quests and commissions, with a few events here and there. Even though questing is pretty much a placeholder, I think I can see the direction it's going and give feedback on what is currently in the game.
I've seen over these testing phases, quests getting more markers, clearer indication of what to do and how to do it. I am not opposed to some quests being more handheld. Routine quests, usually used for leveling, with a simple theme and gameplay, with low rewards, more intended for day to day play, can totally be streamlined. No one needs to wander around aimlessly to find a baker or to go kill goblins.
But I don't want to see all the quests becoming like this. We should have a big portion of quests streamlined, and quite a few milestone quests really intricate and complex, and require community collaboration and investigation to solve, and challenging PvE encounters to overcome. These quests that require a lot more effort should have equivalent rewards. Unique items, mounts, buffs, titles, secret locations with different mobs to hunt and gathering materials, lore information that could be useful for other quests. Rewards that really make the effort worth it.
Especially at max level, quests that are incredibly challenging even to the players with soft-cap power can create the feeling that exploring is worth it. Imagine solving a quest that took you 4 months to solve, and a skilled group of players, and in return getting an artifact item.
These types of quests should be completely hands-free on the UI side. No markers, no quest log telling you what to do. But this doesn't mean wander aimlessly and hope to stumble into something with luck. Players need clues, breadcrumbs to follow. And these breadcrumbs come through not only dialogue with NPC quest givers, but with other related citizens in the world, lore information like books and scrolls, riddles, and other visual indications like symbol riddles. We should also be able to go into all quest dialogs at will to reread information we forgot. An encyclopedia recording every location you visited, every NPC you met, and every mob you fought can also help.
These quests can't be straightforward either. A simple puzzle like the bridge in Befallen forge won't cut it. It needs several steps, information available on several different locations (like a random book in a library), multiple combined trigger conditions, some not accessible to the players (like time of day, weather, world state in general. Information that can be maintained solely server side and never communicated with the client). We're talking about quests rewarding stuff like artifacts (unique items) here. It needs to be very intricate, and it can't be stuff that is datamined or spoofed/sniffed.
Some possible tools that can be used for improving quests:
Another thing that can help with the feeling of mystery and reward exploration is teasers. Seeing locations you don't know how to access, items that you don't know how to reach, doors you don't know how to unlock, hearing about "mythical" places and items from NPCs. Stuff that is at your visual reach, but not actually reachable. It could even be stuff that is truly inaccessible to players currently, but that will be accessible in a future expansion (of course, you don't tell the players that, you let them believe that the mystery wasn't solved until then). A game that does this with excellence is Tibia. Some examples of mysteries still unsolved by players (some decades old):
https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Mysteries
https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Odd_Places
And an example from one of the best quests in the game, when it comes to mystery and exploration being rewarded (you can use YouTube's English subtitles). It's two long videos, but for whoever is responsible for designing things like this in the company, I highly recommend watching it, as I think Tibia has a very unique way of doing things:
https://youtu.be/K_nvKS29-Gs
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-5umVog1vFI&pp=0gcJCX4JAYcqIYzv
And a quest guide in English to help when the subtitles cause some confusion on names and other stuff (but watch the video cause the guide only gives you direct instructions, it doesn't detail how the process of discovering the clues and progressing in the quest, which is the good part):
https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Opticording_Sphere_Quest
Last but not least, another way to reward exploration is just having stuff like treasure in a very deep place in a dungeon, in a special room with a challenging pve encounter, or a secret room. It doesn't even need to be a quest in a quest log, just a puzzle/challenge with a reward at the end.
To finish, a small QoL feature. Give us an Indication if the quest is a quest that requires a group (like killing 3* mobs) at the start, so if we are alone, we know we won't be able to complete it.
Sieges
Issues
- Control points are pretty much insignificant, and there is no reason for defenders to fight for them.
- Node walls present no real advantage to defenders (especially after they become destructible), and having the gates closed only means the defenders have to leave the node to fight.
- On that subject, it's very easy to bypass node gates/walls completely. Abilities like the bard's anti-gravity and other terrain placements make it pretty easy to jump over the walls.
- Players can easily destroy node structures (walls and gates), and with the current implementation, I don't see siege vehicles and weapons being important.
- The village node is pretty small, and the playing space is very limited for a siege.
- The channeling point requires one person to stop playing completely while channeling.
Suggestions
Let me preface with something here. We know some of this stuff is planned, but we don't know to what extent. So I might suggest something that is already planned. No need to tell me, I'm just giving feedback on the current implementation
- Consider adding other benefits to the control points. Something like buffs or respawn wave timer reduction. Something to make it worth fighting for
- We need more options to fight players on the other side of the wall. Ballistas, hot oil, fire bombs, ramparts, slits and windows on the walls. Mayors should also have the option to upgrade the wall for bigger size and more functionality.
- Additionally, we could use stuff like trenches, bunkers, big caltrops, traps, and stuff that can be placed outside of the node walls for allowing defense to play outside of the node walls and not be just a blob vs blob gameplay. This stuff and the stuff on the previous list could be something the node and mayors choose to invest in and place in the world. Some of this stuff, like ballistas and ramparts, could be permanent, and some would require building in the time between siege declaration and siege start. This also increases the play area and does not limit it to the small village footprint.
- Currently, the Gate needs a big boost in HP as it's destroyed in seconds. Also, when siege vehicles and weapons are introduced, the player's damage to structure should be severely reduced to make siege weapons have an importance
- The guy channeling the godspike (or siege banner or whatever) should have a small agency to cast defensive abilities. Like the tank using fortify and shake it off and stuff like that, so they have at least something to do while channeling. Maybe change it to 30 seconds to activate the ritual and 30 seconds to deactivate it (like a plant the bomb, defuse the bomb situation), so no one needs to stay afk for 5 minutes.
- Last but not least, the time between siege declaration and siege start should be filled with events and organic objectives for all node citizens. Stuff like stopping the enemy's logistics caravans, farming materials for siege weapons and traps, dynamic events, sallying on the enemy's attack base camp, and others to increase participation for node citizens, and also to make siege an actual event rather than a simple game mode.
Naval
Issues
- The 8-player ship (the one we got now) is pretty small. It barely fits 8 players, and when a boarding happens, there is absolutely no room to fight, it's 16 people crowded on top of each other.
- Currently ships are basically vessels for players to fight on the water. Cannons do way less damage than players, and boats are really fragile. Boat vs Boat gameplay is going to be non-existent when the novelty wears off.
- Ships are currently not allowed in the riverlands, and even if they do, the riverland's rivers are pretty small, and the layout is pretty closed. There should be the possibility for merchant ships to leave the nodes with river layouts and end up on the sea, or ships being used to help siege the node.
Suggestions
- Increase the 8-player ship size based on material rarity/tiers.
- Players should do reduced damage to structures in general (node gates/walls, siege weapons, ships) and make cannons/potion launchers/siege weapons the most viable way to destroy structures. Also, increase the base HP of ships by A LOT. Ships shouldn't be destroyed in a minute. Once players get wiped out from the ship the first time, it's over, and that's really bad.
- I think the riverlands rivers are waaay too tiny, most of them are barely a canal. We need some rivers in which you can barely see the other side. Also, the river layouts should allow for at least a couple of exits to Lionhold's Bay.
Quests
That's right, Questing feedback. I am leveling the rogue, and unlike the other times I leveled, I am doing leveling mostly following quests and commissions, with a few events here and there. Even though questing is pretty much a placeholder, I think I can see the direction it's going and give feedback on what is currently in the game.
I've seen over these testing phases, quests getting more markers, clearer indication of what to do and how to do it. I am not opposed to some quests being more handheld. Routine quests, usually used for leveling, with a simple theme and gameplay, with low rewards, more intended for day to day play, can totally be streamlined. No one needs to wander around aimlessly to find a baker or to go kill goblins.
But I don't want to see all the quests becoming like this. We should have a big portion of quests streamlined, and quite a few milestone quests really intricate and complex, and require community collaboration and investigation to solve, and challenging PvE encounters to overcome. These quests that require a lot more effort should have equivalent rewards. Unique items, mounts, buffs, titles, secret locations with different mobs to hunt and gathering materials, lore information that could be useful for other quests. Rewards that really make the effort worth it.
Especially at max level, quests that are incredibly challenging even to the players with soft-cap power can create the feeling that exploring is worth it. Imagine solving a quest that took you 4 months to solve, and a skilled group of players, and in return getting an artifact item.
These types of quests should be completely hands-free on the UI side. No markers, no quest log telling you what to do. But this doesn't mean wander aimlessly and hope to stumble into something with luck. Players need clues, breadcrumbs to follow. And these breadcrumbs come through not only dialogue with NPC quest givers, but with other related citizens in the world, lore information like books and scrolls, riddles, and other visual indications like symbol riddles. We should also be able to go into all quest dialogs at will to reread information we forgot. An encyclopedia recording every location you visited, every NPC you met, and every mob you fought can also help.
These quests can't be straightforward either. A simple puzzle like the bridge in Befallen forge won't cut it. It needs several steps, information available on several different locations (like a random book in a library), multiple combined trigger conditions, some not accessible to the players (like time of day, weather, world state in general. Information that can be maintained solely server side and never communicated with the client). We're talking about quests rewarding stuff like artifacts (unique items) here. It needs to be very intricate, and it can't be stuff that is datamined or spoofed/sniffed.
Some possible tools that can be used for improving quests:
- Non-obvious quest starting points. Exploring the world and being rewarded with a really cool unknown quest feels good. If every quest can be started with a quest giver that is indicated in the world map, it feels like no quest is truly a mystery.
- Puzzle solutions that involve world state trigger conditions (weather, time of day, state of nodes, story arc stages, etc)
- Puzzle solutions that involve a combination of archetypes/items (like requiring a cleric with a holy symbol or a mage with a spellbook)
- Dropped Keys in the world that unlock certain special quest doors.
- Requiring multiple of those in the same puzzle (Like 1 of each archetype with 1 specific item at a certain time of day) to avoid common luck accidentally solving it.
- Tools like shovels, pickaxes, and machetes/scythes to unlock certain locations like holes, passages through stone, and thick grass (for instance you harvest a tree and it reveals a hole where its roots supposed to be, or you use your pickaxe on some loose stone and open up a passage)
- maze-like locations with multiple paths, most of the wrong-way paths being one-way with punishing monsters. You go down the wrong path, you end up stuck with a pve encounter that is a nightmare to beat, and the only way is through.
- Challenging PvE encounters.
- Smart player number restrictions to locations. For instance, a quest that requires players to sit on 4 chairs, and when one of the players pulls a lever, only those 4 are teleported to the location, where they will face a challenging PvE encounter. It's not instanced as there is only 1 of that location in the world, and once 1 group is in, the rest have to wait. You can even create a location where players from the outside can watch this quest location, but not help.
- Clues to quests in Lore dumps (books, random npc dialogues, etc), giving a reason for players to read the lore and feel rewarded when they use that information in the actual gameplay.
- Hidden dialog options that unlock based on quest progression stages and hidden keywords (for instance, using local chat to say a specific word close to an NPC can unlock hidden dialog options.
- Red herrings
Another thing that can help with the feeling of mystery and reward exploration is teasers. Seeing locations you don't know how to access, items that you don't know how to reach, doors you don't know how to unlock, hearing about "mythical" places and items from NPCs. Stuff that is at your visual reach, but not actually reachable. It could even be stuff that is truly inaccessible to players currently, but that will be accessible in a future expansion (of course, you don't tell the players that, you let them believe that the mystery wasn't solved until then). A game that does this with excellence is Tibia. Some examples of mysteries still unsolved by players (some decades old):
https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Mysteries
https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Odd_Places
And an example from one of the best quests in the game, when it comes to mystery and exploration being rewarded (you can use YouTube's English subtitles). It's two long videos, but for whoever is responsible for designing things like this in the company, I highly recommend watching it, as I think Tibia has a very unique way of doing things:
https://youtu.be/K_nvKS29-Gs
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-5umVog1vFI&pp=0gcJCX4JAYcqIYzv
And a quest guide in English to help when the subtitles cause some confusion on names and other stuff (but watch the video cause the guide only gives you direct instructions, it doesn't detail how the process of discovering the clues and progressing in the quest, which is the good part):
https://tibia.fandom.com/wiki/Opticording_Sphere_Quest
Last but not least, another way to reward exploration is just having stuff like treasure in a very deep place in a dungeon, in a special room with a challenging pve encounter, or a secret room. It doesn't even need to be a quest in a quest log, just a puzzle/challenge with a reward at the end.
To finish, a small QoL feature. Give us an Indication if the quest is a quest that requires a group (like killing 3* mobs) at the start, so if we are alone, we know we won't be able to complete it.
1
Comments
riverlands also not designed for boats since every river going into the biome has a waterfall at the end so u cant get a boat up there either way
Yeah, I agree the ship TTK will definitely improve, not only with attachments but when they rework the gearing and stat system hopefully. But without a fortified buff (resistant to player damage), and siege weapons and potion launchers doing extra damage to these fortified structures (ships, walls, gates, siege weapons themselves) I don't see the balance working out, cause either they are super strong and are going to be used to delete players, which I don't think its good, or its going to be weak and under utilized. I think the best way to do it is with modifiers that allow these weapons to do extra damage to structures but reduced damage to players.