TTK changes and impact on dodge

HI there!

With the recent gear adjustment and the increase of TTK, its becoming clear that current implementation of dodge mechanic is flawed.
Prior the changes, dodge was the only mechanic that extended the TTK and it was not that obvious how flawed it is.
After the changes, dodging implementation is so ridiculous, that it breaks the entire PVP system.
Dodge is used as traversal ability, which I think is not the intention, instead of it being defensive ability.
With current stamina tree that recovers stamina upon successful dodge is translating to characters being able to traverse 50-80 meters in 2sec while taking no damage due to dodge spam.

What I think could help mitigate this type of use are following suggestions:
1.) completely remove or reduce the stamina regeneration upon successful dodge, so that dodge is limited to 2-3 uses instead of 5+
2.) reduce the distance that character travels when performing dodge, especially from elevated positions (jump+dodge combo has very long travel distance)
3.) any combination of above

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Comments

satyra

I completely agree, and personally, I would even take it further and remove the entire evade mechanic completely, because it will be a lure for cheaters and scripters, just like in every other game with a similar "perfect evade/block" mechanic. There could be objections, that this evade and block are the only part of the " hybrid combat system in game " right now - this should change too.

SmileGurney

I don't know about that. Dodge adds to combat and I don't particularly want it to be totally gutted, because melee classes want ranged class to be a free lunch. There is a certain level of game knowledge to the movement system in the game atm and I like that.

What Intrepid might do is prevent the stamina regen on every hit when dodging instead just on the initial hit, and see how that changes things. This is what is fuelling the excessive stamina regen and allows you to essentially barrel roll when hit by rapid fire, low damage per hit weapons like shortbows etc.

Despite all the complaints from the crowd which woke up to their power gains getting squashed by the last patch, the pvp feels better. People are still dying, you still get punished for over extending in group fights, pvp actually allows for more skill expression across all archetypes. Tanks and fighters don't get instantly deleted when trying to use their kit, and can build up their class resources. Over-nerfing the dodge would hurt those classes in group pvp, as you are destroying a movement mechanic which actually adds some dynamic play to the basic combat.

Imnotkio

I agree that Dodge needs to be heavily nerfed.

Dodge jump covering a big distance + dodge increasing 80% evasion + stamina replenishment is way too much. Add that to the existence of CC breaks, CC immunity, and a longer TTK, and this can become problematic, as it could create awkward situations of people getting away too easily without requiring too much skill on their part. Dodge should be a big skill expression part of combat, and spamming it and flying 10 meters every dodge is not a good way to do a skillful dodge.

My suggestion would be to:
1. Remove the inertia mechanics from dodge or nerf it like 90%
2. Add a small cooldown before being able to dodge a second time
3. Use the light/medium/heavy gear system to make dodge more/less mobile depending on what average gear type you are using.
4. Remove the universal dodge skill tree and add dodge-related passives in the archetype skill trees instead (could also do this for sprint and block).

Veeshan

Fun fact if you get a decent amount of accuracy (the stat people like to ignore cause it not dmg) you basicly bypass dodge with a 95% accuracy.
everyone to focused on big dmg numbers

ZYBAK

I think we should wait and see how things actually play out in the new TTK. I'd be hesitant to change ANYTHING about the movement in the game. The movement and general gameplay feel are things players very much enjoy about Ashes.

Having dodge feel jerky and stop momentum will FEEL worse.

If dodging truly is an issue I feel nerfs to stamina regen, a high stamina cost for dodging, or a cooldown on dodge rolling would be much better solutions than to make the movement feel worse.

Birqa

i fowarded the stamina return issue to intrepid already in phase one.

making recuperation training have 1 sec internal cd would eliviate the issue already to a large degree.
i also suggested them already to either nerf the range on dodge springstep or bring the other two last points in the skilltree (empowered guard, second wind) in line.
its a really early version of the stamina tree and i hope theyll change it so you can only reach two of the last passives and they are properly balanced.

imo just the internal cd for a bandaid fix until they have time to flesh out the stamina tree would go miles in terms of balance.

Birqa

just a short video to show of what the issue with recuperation training is again. i hope that we soon get an internal cd for it because thats just not good game design atm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwNSrVI4-Fc

Veeshan

Birqa wrote: »

just a short video to show of what the issue with recuperation training is again. i hope that we soon get an internal cd for it because thats just not good game design atm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwNSrVI4-Fc

it should on trigger once per dodge not for every miss

MargaretKrohn

Thanks to everyone who’s taken the time to share detailed feedback on dodge and its evolving role in PvP. We’re actively reviewing how changes to TTK are impacting archetype balance and movement mechanics, and your insights are a valuable part of that conversation. Please keep the feedback coming—it’s incredibly helpful as we iterate.

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