It's not about losing, it's about how losing feels.

Let me set the stage. My guild and I decide to take an 8-man to Forge today. No particular goal in mind, just exploring and getting some XP. Things are good for a while. We're clearing mobs and getting deeper into the dungeon. We get done with a fight and are taking a rest on our way down a staircase.

Suddenly I turn around and see about 14 players from a guild known for being hardcore PvPers about to come down the same stairs. I notify my party and boom! The PvP guild declares war on us. before I can say "ah shit" we're all dead. It felt like we had been smited by some mysterious force. There was no fight, no back and forth, just instant ash piles. Literally an entire 8-man party killed in probably less than 2 seconds.

I'll be the first to admit to not being good at PvP. It's never been my focus in MMO's. I don't mind losing. However, this kind of loss just feels bad. I worry that moments like this will turn too many players off of the game and lead hardcore PvP guilds being kings of a dying game.

Suggestions:
- TTK obviously still needs work and I know Intrepid is still looking at it.
- War declarations should come with a little bit of warning. I'm just talking about 5 minutes or so. Enough time for my party in this instance to either prepare ourselves (without having enough time to call for reinforcements) or decide to surrender to the dominant force and leave the area.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Ludullu

Wars should simply come with a proper cost, that's dependent on the guild power difference, re-wardeccing frequency, amount of current wars on either of the guilds, etc etc etc.

Ideally it'd also be a thing that you gotta do at a node, but I'm sure that guilds would simply put the GL role on an alt and have it at a node, to circumvent this kind of rule, so it'll still ultimately come down to having proper costs on this stuff.

And I do believe those are planned, so we just gotta wait till Intrepid implement them.

Cimarb

War dec's are just a way to circumvent the corruption mechanic. A short warning, and maybe a longer timer on it to allow retaliation, would be very easy ways to help regulate the abuse.

daveywavey

Cimarb wrote: »

War dec's are just a way to circumvent the corruption mechanic. A short warning, and maybe a longer timer on it to allow retaliation, would be very easy ways to help regulate the abuse.

This is absolutely what it's being used for, right now. And then you get these 30x8 "fights" cos the second guild were sucker-punched.
Needs to be at least a 12hr declaration period just to stop the ridiculously one-sided gank-fests.

Gardosien

12hr declaration period, Fixed

Noaani

Gardosien wrote: »

12hr declaration period, Fixed

No, there needs to be more than just this.

Guild Wars are supposed to be fights over in game guild assets. Obviously these aren't implemented yet. However, when they are implemented, a guild declaring a war such as in the OP's example may well find that they are putting those assets (things such as a guild hall) at risk for declaring a war over something so trivial.

However, even when these assets are at risk, there still needs to be a cost for declaring war on a guild - a cost that scales based on the over all power difference between the two guilds. Declaring war on an evenly matched or stronger guild should be fairly cheap, but declaring a war on a much less powerful guild should cost a substantial amount.

Areann

Or let a guild only declare x amount of wars per day. That way they will have to think how to get the most use out of it

Volgaris

axisrahl85 wrote: »

I'll be the first to admit to not being good at PvP. It's never been my focus in MMO's. I don't mind losing. However, this kind of loss just feels bad. I worry that moments like this will turn too many players off of the game and lead hardcore PvP guilds being kings of a dying game.

This is the second largest challenge the game faces. First being cheating. I wouldn't enjoy being on either side of that fight. There's no fun in zerging a smaller group/guild and no fun getting zerged. If the game tailors towards the hardcore pvp crowd without strict guardrails the game will fail. I can't think of any open world PvP mmorpgs that were successful. Last I tested and it seems still the game is just PvP not PvX.

Lots of good points and possible solutions brought too. I'd like to add I'd like to see some instanced dungeons. I like the controlled combat in dungeons, where a good group comp and team work matter. I would like to see instanced dungeons that would load other parties in. You could end up with a race condition to the bosses, conflict at cross roads in the dungeons, or decide to work together and clear it faster.

^This doesn't fix the war/corruption loophole that exists, but it gives the PvE leaning players content to enjoy. And PvP leaning players a place to go for fairer combat. I'd enjoy both.

Areann

The only instanced dungeons planned are 'story dungeons'. Contesting and competing is the goal. Even training mobs unto a party to wipe them is considered valid gameplay. A big mistake, according to me. Right now the more you're willing to screw other people over, the more opportunities you have in Ashes. Which seems a very shortsighted design to me, especially when Ashes is also supposed to be a very colaborative and interdependent game.

Child Item