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Steven, Please Rethink “Not for Everyone”

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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 29
    Saabynator wrote: »
    I dont think I have ever seen an interview, where Steven said 2020?
    The Forums says you only joined in 2023, so no surprise that you aren't aware of all the times Steven said that they would release Ashes within 3 years of the Kickstarter. Even in November 2019, Steven was still saying "Before 2020" was technically still possible.
    https://mein-mmo.de/en/ashes-of-creation-says-release-before-2020-and-no-fear-about-it,264504/
    https://tracker.gg/checkpoint/articles/ashes-of-creation

    Saabynator wrote: »
    I think that open development forces this fatigue a bit. Its up to the persons participating, to make sure they control their expectations. Everyone wants to help, and everyone wants to be in it. But its not a game yet, and people need to be absolutely aware of that. You got critique? Great! Make it constructive. You got ideas? Great! I am sure they read the boards here for exactly that.
    I mean... really expectations are mostly controlled by the devs.
    People who are not game devs tend to expect announced deadlines to be met - at least somewhat close to the stated date. Game Devs know that development dead lines are rarely met.
    This is why there is always tension around "open development".

    Steven is a gamer who wrangled enough money to create his own development studio. He thought he was unique in being a gamer wanting to make a game created by gamers for gamers. He thought that would be enough to speed through development. And then continues to learn that developing MMORPG takes close to a decade and... announced dates are going to be missed. And gamers are likely to become irate about missed dates... that were "PROMISED".

    With Ashes, after 8 years, people are expecting more of the features intended to make Ashes unique - like dynamic Nodes, Sieges, Secondary Archetypes and Augments. But, Intrepid is struggling with features gamers are expecting to be fairly easy and fundamental - like a decently working Crafting Economy.
    And fairly decent Questing. They may be taking decent combat, Dungeons and Raids for granted.

    Saabynator wrote: »
    I think you are wrong about the hype though. It might die out now, but they are not even trying. When there is a launch date set, you will start to see advertisement, streamers, videos, interviews.... It will blow the frag up :)
    We shall see. I think Ashes will release too late to "blow the frag up".
    Nodes seemed like a super cool way for players to "build" their own homes and villages Before 2020.
    Valheim released in Feb 2021 - and gave us a different solution for player-built homes and Villages.
    I hate being stuck in Endgame loops (especially when it's just Dungeons and Raids) for years while waiting for an Expansion. Dynamic Nodes are intended to solve that, but... by 2022, most games I play have Seasons - new content and story every 3-4 months, rather than having to wait 12-24 months. So... I no longer need Nodes as an Endgame solution.

    Gamers waiting for the next great PvP-centric game, focused on Risk v Reward, similar to ArcheAge and Lineage II might still flock to Ashes when it releases. We can expect those players to be hyped because that is the specific playstyle for which Steven is creating the game.
    But, it's most likely that most MMORPG fans will already happily be playing other games that don't have such a heavy focus on PvP/Risk v Reward.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 29
    Dygz wrote: »
    But, it's most likely that most MMORPG fans will already happily be playing other games that don't have such a heavy focus on PvP/Risk v Reward.
    By the time Ashes releases, the private server with L2 on UE4 will be polished much better, so anyone who was tired of playing the exact same old version of L2 will simply play that, instead of trying out Ashes (this is already the case for thouuusands of people).

    This is concurrents on the testing phase of that server.
    lkmz0g31x7hg.png

    And that is an old game (even though some changes have been introduced to the gearing/class balance and mobs) with an even harsher grind, yet people are more than willing to play it. THIS is the audience I've been talking about when I said "yeah, I think Ashes can hit 200-300k subs worldwide, if it delivers on its promises".

    If even ancient L2 can get over 10k concurrents - Ashes could easily have 50-70k+, which would be right around 200-300k subs overall.

    And there's still a chance it hits that, though we'll definitely see huge chunks of that potential playerbase being eaten away by all the other mmos with similar systems, but more attractive parts in other places (like better raiding or better pvp or better econ or better questing, etc).
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 29
    Yes. That is the ironic part.
    From 2010 - 2020, I thought WoW would have to make some kind of WoW 2.0 to make me interested in playing WoW again, but they pretty much solved my issues with Shadowlands in 2021. And I loved Dragonflight.
    I had thought I probably would be done with MMORPGs if Ashes failed to meet my needs.

    But, now I am eager to play WoW again.
    Noaani is back to playing EQ2.
    And looks like L2 players have found a version of L2 they enjoy.

    Just seems to me that Ashes has missed its window to release without tons of competition.
    We kinda gotta get past Phase III first, though.
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