How Do You Feel About Immersion-Focused Changes That Shift (by complicating) Game Mechanics?

Xeeg

Azherae wrote: »

An effort to 'get out of my info bubble' a bit. Will try to keep initial short as usual, lmk if it ends up unclear as a result.

When games develop over time they sometimes would need to change/replace a well-known system to add more immersive elements (this also happens for balance but that might need to be discussed separately).

Simple example is a game that only has two types of weather, and a thing in the game that reacts to these binary weather states, changing their weather system so that there are either more types of weather or more gradations of the binary states (let's use rain for simplicity).

If the game starts off as 'when it rains, this thing happens' and then switches to 'we have expanded the weather system so that rain can now be heavy, light, or 'monsoon', and also added sleet which is counted as light rain'...

Obviously if you had something you liked doing in rain and now that thing only happens in Heavy Rain, at MINIMUM your chances of being able to do that thing are probably reduced and that's probably annoying, but...

Do you see it as worth the change if it adds other mechanics (and therefore just grumble) or do you think that games shouldn't make changes like this at all?

(if you prefer droprates, crafting systems, combat, or whatever else as your input to this discussion, plz use that).

I don't think things should be added for "immersion", I think things should be added because they make the gameplay better. For your example, if the weather changes come with new mechanics and playstyles and things to consider while progressing through the game then that should be a good thing.

Personally I think systems like these in MMOs should kind of be like an onion. There should be alot of fun content on the surface layer before people know how deep the systems get. As people get more and more interested in the game they peel into deeper layers that get increasingly complex with reducing return on investment.

Using your example, if the game releases with 2 weather states and later they want to expand on this system by making 8 weather states, then maybe they should still keep 2 main categories of weather states that familiar players can mostly stick to what they were doing but people that want to dive deep into how to use the 8 weather states efficiently can still get a bit of benefit for doing so. Some kind of 80/20 rule where 80% of the benefit can be had with 20% of the effort or knowledge, but squeezing out perfection takes time.

Aszkalon

Xeeg wrote: »

I don't think things should be added for "immersion", I think things should be added because they make the gameplay better. For your example, if the weather changes come with new mechanics and playstyles and things to consider while progressing through the game then that should be a good thing.

For example ? o.O

And even if it is does refreshing things and changes to the Gameplay at times, how will it not necessarily be immersive at the same time ?

I mean the Sandsquall Desert for example should feel very different depending on if it is a clear, sunny Day - or if a Sandstorm blows right into your face - right ?

The Gameplay should be noticeably affected, i think. But how will it not feel "immersive" - when you know exactly that this can for example only happen in that specific Biome ?

Azherae

Xeeg wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

An effort to 'get out of my info bubble' a bit. Will try to keep initial short as usual, lmk if it ends up unclear as a result.

When games develop over time they sometimes would need to change/replace a well-known system to add more immersive elements (this also happens for balance but that might need to be discussed separately).

Simple example is a game that only has two types of weather, and a thing in the game that reacts to these binary weather states, changing their weather system so that there are either more types of weather or more gradations of the binary states (let's use rain for simplicity).

If the game starts off as 'when it rains, this thing happens' and then switches to 'we have expanded the weather system so that rain can now be heavy, light, or 'monsoon', and also added sleet which is counted as light rain'...

Obviously if you had something you liked doing in rain and now that thing only happens in Heavy Rain, at MINIMUM your chances of being able to do that thing are probably reduced and that's probably annoying, but...

Do you see it as worth the change if it adds other mechanics (and therefore just grumble) or do you think that games shouldn't make changes like this at all?

(if you prefer droprates, crafting systems, combat, or whatever else as your input to this discussion, plz use that).

I don't think things should be added for "immersion", I think things should be added because they make the gameplay better. For your example, if the weather changes come with new mechanics and playstyles and things to consider while progressing through the game then that should be a good thing.

For my clarity, is this just 'directly in the case of the OP when it changes a game mechanic' or is this for 'everything'?

Like, in FF11, bats and certain undead don't spawn in the daytime in certain areas. Just... at all.

If a game started with no night/day cycle but for some reason had creatures that are technically nocturnal 'in most sensible perspectives', then added night/day cycles and made those mobs not spawn in the day (or night), that's an obvious mechanical change. "If you want to fight this mob there's a time where you can't do that in this area."

But in TL the percentage of Orcs that are asleep in a certain area rises at night. The effect is minimal on gameplay in both directions (except that sleeping Orcs don't aggro so sneaking around is easier, but like, randomly and more or less negligibly easier.

To me, this is worth adding because it increases immersion, and I understand that not everyone values that, sometimes at all (they come to MMOs to play a game, not to experience a 'world'), I'm just checking if you're in that group.