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Hard cap for Node citizens count

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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    It just becomes worth it for 150 more players to be citizens of the node for the high taxes.
    Does it though?

    You're doing the thing I love to do. You come up with a design in your head and then you argue against that. You've, seemingly, come up with a static relatively small increase to taxes and you think that it's not enough to dissuade people from joining a node super late.

    As I see it (and hope how it will be), each subsequent citizen over the soft cap will be paying an ever-increasing cost, which will be increasing exponentially.

    Even with really good node benefits - the cost for absolute majority of people will (or definitely should) simply be too high. And if a few megarich dudes manage to join the node even at that cost - great, they've wasted a shitton of money (and will keep spending more shittons of it) on a single buff.

    To me, this is the same as super high overenchant lvls. Do super rich people benefit from them way more than the plebs? Of course! Does the insane cost of them equalize the overall power structure on the server? Of course! Except in the node's case it's even better, because the money cannot be redistributed to other players, while in the OE process you'd be buying out entire markets-worth of stuff.

    This simply becomes a good glint sink, which is an incredible gold sink because each glint has the potential to be x10-100+++ its amount in gold.
  • GithalGithal Member
    edited August 4
    Ludullu wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    It just becomes worth it for 150 more players to be citizens of the node for the high taxes.
    Does it though?

    You're doing the thing I love to do. You come up with a design in your head and then you argue against that. You've, seemingly, come up with a static relatively small increase to taxes and you think that it's not enough to dissuade people from joining a node super late.

    As I see it (and hope how it will be), each subsequent citizen over the soft cap will be paying an ever-increasing cost, which will be increasing exponentially.

    Even with really good node benefits - the cost for absolute majority of people will (or definitely should) simply be too high. And if a few megarich dudes manage to join the node even at that cost - great, they've wasted a shitton of money (and will keep spending more shittons of it) on a single buff.

    To me, this is the same as super high overenchant lvls. Do super rich people benefit from them way more than the plebs? Of course! Does the insane cost of them equalize the overall power structure on the server? Of course! Except in the node's case it's even better, because the money cannot be redistributed to other players, while in the OE process you'd be buying out entire markets-worth of stuff.

    This simply becomes a good glint sink, which is an incredible gold sink because each glint has the potential to be x10-100+++ its amount in gold.

    Well if you put it this way - this is no different than a hard cap right?

    its like saying a shop wants to sell no more than 100 items a day. and instead of stopping the sales after the 100th, they increase the price from 10$ to 3000$ for single item.

    And yes this will work, I just dont see why you are ok with this and not with hard cap since they are the same

    Also i doubt this is the intended cost increase Intrepid meant to put.

    For me "Soft cap" has the meaning that after the cap, you still get benefits, just not as good as before the cap.
    With what you describe - the loses are much more than the benefits. So i cant really consider it as "soft cap",

    For example a lot of games has soft cap on cooldown reduce. that with more cd increase the less % you get a for single point. At the beginning you may get 10 cd reduce for 9%. after 100 for example you will still get some % cd reduce, just less. This is soft cap.

    If after 100 cd reduce (which for example can be 66%). you put 10 more cd reduce, and the % becomes 65. This is no soft cap. its hard cap
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    Well if you put it this way - this is no different than a hard cap right?
    Which has been my entire point so far.
    Githal wrote: »
    its like saying a shop wants to sell no more than 100 items a day. and instead of stopping the sales after the 100th, they increase the price from 10$ to 3000$ for single item.
    And that's exactly what a shitton of stores do. Especially the ones that sell luxury goods.

    It's a way to remove money from stupid people.
    Githal wrote: »
    And yes this will work, I just dont see why you are ok with this and not with hard cap since they are the same
    I've answered this several times already. I want the same in Ashes, except now that removal is good for the node and for the server's overall money pool.
    Githal wrote: »
    Also i doubt this is the intended cost increase Intrepid meant to put.
    That's the point. We don't know what they want. I'm almost fucking sure THEY don't know what they want, cause it's been obvious that they're designing the game along the way rather than beforehand.
    Githal wrote: »
    For me "Soft cap" has the meaning that after the cap, you still get benefits, just not as good as before the cap.
    With what you describe - the loses are much more than the benefits. So i cant really consider it as "soft cap",

    If after 100 cd reduce (which for example can be 66%). you put 10 more cd reduce, and the % becomes 65. This is no soft cap. its hard cap
    The point is that it's a cap.

    The point is that you're still wasting skill point on this skill cause you're dumb. It's a literal bait for stupid people, and I want that shit in the game so that stupid people waste their resources on needless things.
  • GithalGithal Member
    Ludullu wrote: »

    The point is that you're still wasting skill point on this skill cause you're dumb. It's a literal bait for stupid people, and I want that shit in the game so that stupid people waste their resources on needless things.

    Well i wouldnt say its for "stupid people", and more for "Uninformed people". Since there will be enough guides for the game, that even someone stupid will know not to do something that is not worth it.

    And i dont find it as that good idea to punish uninformed players either. Since this is the way you make them quit the game.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    Well i wouldnt say its for "stupid people", and more for "Uninformed people". Since there will be enough guides for the game, that even someone stupid will know not to do something that is not worth it.

    And i dont find it as that good idea to punish uninformed players either. Since this is the way you make them quit the game.
    Do you truly believe that an uninformed person would have enough money to purchase and sustain a citizenship that's way over softcap? Cause I don't.

    Also, I would definitely expect Intrepid to put a HUGE pop-up during the citizenship acquisition process post-softcap of "YOU WILL BE PAYING THIS TIMES AS MUCH AS THE NORMAL CITIZEN, BECAUSE YOU'RE JOINING THE NODE TOO LATE!!! ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS?! ARE YOU FUCKING DEFINITELY SURE?!?!"

    Players become "Informed" when the game informs them. If there's literally zero in-game text telling you that you're about to do something really stupid - Intrepid have failed to inform their players. And yes - that would be a bad thing.
  • GithalGithal Member
    edited August 4
    Ludullu wrote: »
    Githal wrote: »
    Well i wouldnt say its for "stupid people", and more for "Uninformed people". Since there will be enough guides for the game, that even someone stupid will know not to do something that is not worth it.

    And i dont find it as that good idea to punish uninformed players either. Since this is the way you make them quit the game.
    Do you truly believe that an uninformed person would have enough money to purchase and sustain a citizenship that's way over softcap? Cause I don't.

    Also, I would definitely expect Intrepid to put a HUGE pop-up during the citizenship acquisition process post-softcap of "YOU WILL BE PAYING THIS TIMES AS MUCH AS THE NORMAL CITIZEN, BECAUSE YOU'RE JOINING THE NODE TOO LATE!!! ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS?! ARE YOU FUCKING DEFINITELY SURE?!?!"

    Players become "Informed" when the game informs them. If there's literally zero in-game text telling you that you're about to do something really stupid - Intrepid have failed to inform their players. And yes - that would be a bad thing.

    How many games have you played where you start the game with some currency, or you get the currency in much faster rate in the beginning of the game as a catch up mechanic, and you spend it on something you think you need at the moment, but later you realize that you have made mistake and should have spent it on something else?

    In the context of AOC it would be more like: a player who gets a lucky drop of some super rare material with low drop rate. And he sells for huge amount of gold, but he doesnt know what to do with the gold.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Githal wrote: »
    How many games have you played where you start the game with some currency, or you get the currency in much faster rate in the beginning of the game as a catch up mechanic, and you spend it on something you think you need at the moment, but later you realize that you have made mistake and should have spent it on something else?

    In the context of AOC it would be more like: a player who gets a lucky drop of some super rare material with low drop rate. And he sells for huge amount of gold, but he doesnt know what to do with the gold.
    Again, I do not think that post-softcap prices should be anywhere near what a lvl10-20 player can get from a lucky drop.

    And if there is in fact the pop-up I mentioned - it'll be on that person to learn from their own mistakes. If someone touches an electric fence that has a sign "don't fucking touch this, stupid" - I won't feel bad for them.
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