Another PvP loop

I'm against this mainly because it would require a completely different gearing pace and I do not want that kind of pace in Ashes.

How would this require a different gearing pace? Also this is just an another PvP loop think of it as maybe side bar but I also think u could add special reward mats for it to keep it interesting. Also I think u could just make white or green gear which isn’t changing gearing pace at all. I don’t really understand ur argument can u elaborate?

ktaboa wrote: »

How would this require a different gearing pace? Also this is just an another PvP loop think of it as maybe side bar but I also think u could add special reward mats for it to keep it interesting. Also I think u could just make white or green gear which isn’t changing gearing pace at all. I don’t really understand ur argument can u elaborate?

No matter what rarity of gear it is, the mechanic of "you can lose your entire inventory" means that replacing said inventory should be easy enough for this mechanic to be viable.

If you have enough resources in the world to support this kind of mechanic, it means that all the other stages of rarity are more abundant as well. At which point you have way too many legendary items in the world which, imo, is a problem.

So, as I said, I'd prefer if we didn't have full loot in the game. Completely losing mats on any death is already too strong of a sink imo, but we'll see how that ends up.

I can kinda see ur point but this is meant to be like a endgame loop or really whenever u want to because ur buying the risk as soon as you come in but the rewards will be great

And I never said it will be easy to get back the gear but if gearing is anywhere near what it was in phase 2 after the Econ is set up after a month it’s quite ez to buy white or green gear for 10-30 gold there is already enough mats in the game to support this people just don’t craft low quality gear because no one buys it because everyone wants bis. We also in turn just need gear sinks to keep mats in demand because people are actually crafting a lot of items

Also not true at all are u a new player there are always way more white green blue mats then there are heroic epic or legendary and it’s not even close that’s what there usually 50x more expensive

just don’t think those problems actually exist I think we should try and maybe give this a test and see how people like it:

Again u also don’t have to go here if you don’t want to. It’s a optional loop intended for the more hardcore players to keep them away from the more casual types

ktaboa wrote: »

And I never said it will be easy to get back the gear but if gearing is anywhere near what it was in phase 2 after the Econ is set up after a month it’s quite ez to buy white or green gear for 10-30 gold there is already enough mats in the game to support this people just don’t craft low quality gear because no one buys it because everyone wants bis. We also in turn just need gear sinks to keep mats in demand because people are actually crafting a lot of items

We've only experienced lvl20 gear. I fully expect lvl50 gear to be much rarer. And then if the risk-avoidant players don't use lvl50 gear, the ones that do - just win instantly. Which usually means that the strong get stronger over and over again, as will be the case with the lawless zones, except with full loot you're fully transfering power instead of just slowing someone's progress.

ktaboa wrote: »

Also not true at all are u a new player there are always way more white green blue mats then there are heroic epic or legendary and it’s not even close that’s what there usually 50x more expensive

It's not about how many of them there are right now. It's about the ratio of things. If people know they'll lose their gear - they'll want to have at least several sets of it, so that their progress is not hampered. This means that the game has to support this approach to gameplay, otherwise you have a wild imbalance of gear distribution on the realm.

And so, if you multiply the amount of gatherables you get (to support the higher amount of gear required) - you'll have the rare mats multiplied by that too.

ktaboa wrote: »

just don’t think those problems actually exist I think we should try and maybe give this a test and see how people like it:

Again u also don’t have to go here if you don’t want to. It’s a optional loop intended for the more hardcore players to keep them away from the more casual types

Afaik this is true in pretty much any full loot game. Their entire economies are built around the requirement to recraft your gear over and over.

And if this system has highest rewards in the game (which it would need to even be viable) - then it's not really optional, because all those casuals will be demolished even harder by the people that can easily farm the rewards in this full loot locations.

This is lawless zones on steroids, which means it's even worse than the already-fucking-aweful lawless zones.

Do you not do gvg (no offense honest question) even in gvg if ur up against a competent guild u will lose players if ur out there even in decent gear and u die that’s literally 100ths of gold which if u have 10 players from ur guild die holy fuck that’s a setback people will be wearing piss until way later in the game

Also players can only pick up 2-3 items with my idea the rest is destroyed (which is what we want in reality you want gear sinks when crafting is the way to get good gear)

The strong will always get stronger it takes a multi faceted effort to take down the number one but if you do my god imagine the hit even in piss gear if you manage to wipe the top guild and there rocking blue gear u just lost them 1000s of gold and set them back which is always fun for both parties ( if mentals are strong)

Again I don’t think gear and balance need to be balanced for this loop osrs does not balance there game around full loot it’s mostly balanced around pve is kinda my point we don’t need more mats the game has alot it’s okay for progress to be slow.

This also generates ton of player agency and content which right now the game lacks

Ur point that casuals will be demolished doesn’t really mean anything because they already do you kinda want the main guilds fighting each-other sinking gold and gear because they will have the most of it anyways so the more they sink the better it is for everyone else in reality. It’s kinda why osrs has a hard time with there economy because there are no Gear sinks. Which is why the devs purposefully buy items from the market and delete them themselves

ktaboa wrote: »

Also players can only pick up 2-3 items with my idea the rest is destroyed (which is what we want in reality you want gear sinks when crafting is the way to get good gear)

Shit, that's completely my bad. I totally skipped over the details because I dislike the core premise itself.

Now I see this as an even worse idea. And I don't really have anything else to say on this topic. Have a nice one

The pacing for loot is something that needs to be a part of a games core design, and needs to be consistent throughout the game. Ashes wants to make your gear matter at least to a degree, mechanics that involve losing full sets of gear require the game make gear essentially disposable.

These two concepts are at odds with each other.

So question to you? When had you ever crafted white or green gear as ur main goal in the game?

Also white / green gear is just ez to make in general takes a couple of hours to craft or is legit dropped lol

ktaboa wrote: »

So question to you? When had you ever crafted white or green gear as ur main goal in the game?

ktaboa wrote: »

Also white / green gear is just ez to make in general takes a couple of hours to craft or is legit dropped lol

Sure, and any player wearing it will get curb stomped.

There is more to this than *just* availability of gear. Gear scaling also needs to be bought in tighter so that a player that just lost everything is able to work back up to decent gear. You need to design your game world in a way where this player is able to have somewhere to farm away from those with significantly better gear - something that is all but impossible in a game with a dynamic world.

The thing is, the general idea has merit - in another game. It is the kind of thing a PvP focused MMORPG needs to be built around from day one. However, since Ashes isn't designed around it, and trying to add it in now would require a complete redesign of all of the games itemization, content and the removal of the node system in order to facilitate seperation of players as stated above.

So, it's potentially a good idea, for a different game.

I don’t agree in Ashe’s getting gear (if you know what your doing) is really easy to get if you think players will be walking around full bis in A full loot PvP area your crazy this ain’t osrs where u can fight for 5 mins u die quick in this game And if u get jumped your dead so I think the gearing is actually gonna even out. Why risk your legos when u can wear greens? Also if this area has players in it, it makes the whole map more open for a couple hours allowing more players to farm others spot allowing u to acquire more gear. I don’t really understand the pushback? Is it because most players won’t be able to compete? I still haven’t really heard a good argument besides people don’t like full loot. Or a made up gearing issue that doesn’t really exist. Again to summarize I don’t think gearing needs to change one bit doesn’t need to remove node systems it’s just an event. That truly lives up to the name high risk high reward. Which besides rich caravans and ships no other future can be implemented as quick as this can. Thank you for coming to my Ted talks I do get your points though.

ktaboa wrote: »

I don’t really understand the pushback?

Really?

MMORPG's are built on gear. Whether it is a one off item that you have the only one of on a server, and hard to get or expensive to craft item, gear that only drops from the hardest content in the game - players put time and effort in to getting the specific gear they want, working out what is the best they can get from the content they are able to defeat, that suits their build.

This is the core of what an MMORPG is (get friends to run dungeons to get better gear to be able to run harder dungeons). You are basically saying "nah, fuck that, let's do something else", and don't get why there is pushback?

You not thinking gearing needs to be changed to accommodate your suggestion does not mean you are right. It absolutely would need to be changed, as the very notion of full loot means gear has to shift from something players strive towards, to something that is a commodity. This is a hard requirement for any full loot game - even moreso when that full loot game involves destruction of gear.

A game where you have a reasonable expectation to hold on to an item until you find a better one to replace it can easily ask players to spend a dozen hours working towards that one item (or 60+ hours, as in the game I am currently playing). A game with full loot can't ask that much of players for a full equipment set, let alone one item.

I don’t understand ur telling me that green longbow that u got 6 of that no one wants has no other use besides being salvaged. If u don’t have a Lego longbow 2 months into the game I pray for you. Or those green longbows that your crafter can make early in the game but doesn’t because people want lego has no other use besides not being made. I swear u guys don’t play the game.

ktaboa wrote: »

I swear u guys don’t play the game.

That's right. We don't. We test it and give feedback. And my feedback has been consistent for years. I do not want the gearing pace that would support full loot drops. The current pace is waaaaay too fucking fast. And yesterday's update on it made it even worse.

It's a real shame.