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Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Economy Discussion
onewingedangelo1
Member, Alpha Two
I'm not going to be going into the current way the economy is, while I will be referencing it from time to time, I want to discuss what I feel would be a more ideal situation using the resources we have in the game or will be coming with the game.
Topics I'd like to cover will fall into the following categories; Crafting, Gathering, Money Making Options, Trading
I currently think the way crafting work as is, needs to change, and Intrepid already have acknowledged they overshot the mark on the current integration. That being said I feel they got some things right. The different tiers of gear within each level bracket is a great addition. So long as the items that one can acquire as drops from mobs in the world never venture beyond the first tier of power that a crafting can create, crafting will stay the dominate force in the game.
For each level bracket they should follow the same structure.
T1: Cheap to make, requiring few resources and low processing costs
T2: More expensive to make (but still reasonable) and require more resources to make with a inflated processing cost
T3: Just as expensive to make as T2, requires even more resources to make including a rare, hard to find item
One thing that needs to change beyond just number tweaks of our current system is what is offered at the different levels of progression. As it stands it's clear that they plan on changing things in the future just by doing simple math (Novice 1-9, Apprentice 10-19, Journeyman 20-29, Master 30-39, Grandmaster 40-49, ??? 50?) Here is what I propose how they should change each level of a craft to what they will offer you.
Novice: Initiate (1-9). Only T1 type of gear can be made here.
Apprentice: Initiate, Adept (1-20) Only T1 type of gear can be made here
Journeyman: Initiate, Adept, Radiant, Divine (1-40) Only T1 up to Divine and T2 type of gear can be made here up to Radiant.
Master: Initiate, Adept, Radiant, Divine, Exhalted (1-50) Only T1 and T2 type of gear can be made here up to Exhalted
Grandmaster: Everything. Only here will T3 gear be able to be made.
One of the concerns that people have stated is that it's too difficult for crafters to keep up with the progression of the adventures. By expanding the level ranges of gear that crafters can make this will help them stay relevant for longer while the rest of the game develops around them.
Another change I'd like to see happen to the crafting system (which also would apply to gathering) is that the promotion to a new level require some sort of test. Gatherers need to find specific item, Crafters need to make a specific item relevant to the level they wish to advance to. I'm sure this is something that was already planned and our current system is just place holder, I just wanted it said.
If you noticed, I didn't include processing professions in with the other two. There is a reason for that. That is because I feel like processing needs to get absorbed into the crafting professions. With that, Cooking Animal Husbandry, and Alchemy should be relabeled as crafting professions. Here is a list of which crafting professions I would move the processing professions to.
Armorsmithing ===> Metalworking
Weaponsmithing ==> Metalworking
Carpentry ========> Lumbermilling
Leatherworking ====> Tanning
Jeweler ==========> Stoneworking
Tailoring ==========> Weaving
Animal Husbandry ==> Farming
I understand that the vision for the game is to make it so that no one person should be able to do everything by themselves, but removing 6 of the current 22 professions will not be such a huge change that will make it so that someone is less likely to have to rely on others to get things done. On top of this it plays into the fantasy of being the grandmaster at a craft. To say that a grand master Tailor doesn't know the finer workings of now weaving works, just doesn't make any sense. Or how a leatherworker doesn't know how to treat their own leather. True masters of the craft would know how to do every level of the process. On top of that... I highly doubt people have a dream of being "The grand master wool spinner!" or "Bad ass rock tumbler!"
The reason I'd like the 'removal' of these professions is that as it stands, you have to rely TOO much on others just to do one thing. At the novice/apprentice stage it isn't bad since you can do that yourself. But once you get into Journeyman you can and there are so many steps to get one thing done, you end up needing to rely too much on others just to do 1 profession it's more of an annoyance than a social experience.
Even if you got all 5 of your characters Max Level and Grand Master in 2 professions that would only leave 10 of the remaining 16 that you could achieve by yourself. To be perfectly frank with you. If someone wanted to devote that much time and energy with how much of a grind it's expected to take to get that far... I feel like that's a reward that that individual should get. What's the percentage of people who would actually do that? I am willing to wager it's very low in the single digit of percentage of the player base, if not 0.# % that anyone would do that.
Honestly I don't have a lot of criticism here. They already announced they are fixing the static node rarity that got accidently put back in with the rarity cluster update and that Hunting is just placeholder and will get revamped in time, so here I'm mostly okay with what's gong on here.
There are a few changes I'd like to see done with gathering though.
1.) Gathering stats should be something unlocked with different levels.
Novice: Gathering Exp Unlocked
Apprentice: Gathering Rarity Unlocked
Journeyman: Gathering Speed Unlocked
Master: Gathering Quantity Unlocked
Grandmaster: Something special?
What I mean with this is at the Novice stage, the only gathering stat you can benefit from is Gathering Exp. Not only that any gear you may get at this level will only have Gathering Exp as a stat. At Apprentice, the gear will now have Gathering Rarity on it and you may benefit from this now. Etc, Etc...
2.) Increasing your rank you gain a flat amount of gathering stats
Leveling up to the Apprentice level will now give you a flat amount of extra Rarity. Leveling up to Journeyman gives a flat amount of extra Rarity AND Speed. Etc, Etc.. This will incentivize people to advance in a gathering profession rather than just stay a novice and collect low level materials to sell on the market place. While it will still be possible for novice gatherers to collect uncommon or better rarity resources, it will be extremely rare/unlikely for them until they become Apprentice and much more common once you become Journeyman and beyond. So on and so forth with the other levels of the profession.
This adds more of an identity to gatherers and helps them stand out verses other players.
1.)Crates
I'm not terribly upset with this system there is just one change I'd like introduced. I think that running crates should be limited to 1 crate per day per type of crate. Right now Crates are just a way to print money with little risk. If you put a cap on how many that could be ran, you would have less inflation in the game.
2.) Caravans
Bugs and Exploits aside, these I have little problem with. I do think that there either needs to be an item or system in place that makes it easier to find where caravans being run. Also while making a module for your caravan to help make it more stealthy. Caravans should be a dangerous endeavor for the amount of rewards you can get out of them. People should have to either get defenders or mob up and make large caravan envoys for protection. It shouldn't be something you can just safely do. That's not to say if it's the middle of the day and people run solo caravans with the risk of getting gank being super low shouldn't be possible, but there should ALWAYS be some danger when running a caravan. If you want safety... run a Crate.
3.) Glint Grind
I feel like this is in a good state. I like the option of just killing mobs getting glint maybe something like droppings or the rare piece of white gear.
4.) Gathering
I've already talked about this in the previous section, outside the changes I suggested I think this is a good way to make money selling to other players or just to a vendor for 1s per stack of most items.
I love the addition of the item search in the market place, along with the rarity setting. I just feel like the market place needs to be improved upon more. Something like making all market places within a vassal network be linked. There is too much lag when people afk congregate in the city and the mentality of players everyone seems to just want to buy/sell in the same place instead of trying to create markets in every node. I think this will help spread out the player base more and give more life to other nodes within a region.
Despite how convenient and nice the marketplace is, people still use /trade chat so people willing to make deals and do in person trading still is plentiful. Especially with player shops coming eventually I really don't think linking market places will make the game less social, not to mention the profit that can be made by traveling between the Anvils and the Riverlands to trade.
I know this was a lot but I just wanted to get all my thoughts out there as I feel like these changes will drastically improve the economy of the game and make the experience of the economy be more positive than what it currently is at. Lowering the barrier to entry into crafting by reducing crafting/processing costs along with the extra cost of being so reliant on others to get things processed by combining the processing jobs into the crafting jobs will make the crafting experience more enjoyable and attractive to more players while not eliminating all reliance on other players. Also the changes to the gathering system proposed should add more of an identity to gatherers and more of an attraction to open up the potential of hardcore dedicated gatherers.
Topics I'd like to cover will fall into the following categories; Crafting, Gathering, Money Making Options, Trading
======================Crafting========================
I currently think the way crafting work as is, needs to change, and Intrepid already have acknowledged they overshot the mark on the current integration. That being said I feel they got some things right. The different tiers of gear within each level bracket is a great addition. So long as the items that one can acquire as drops from mobs in the world never venture beyond the first tier of power that a crafting can create, crafting will stay the dominate force in the game.
For each level bracket they should follow the same structure.
T1: Cheap to make, requiring few resources and low processing costs
T2: More expensive to make (but still reasonable) and require more resources to make with a inflated processing cost
T3: Just as expensive to make as T2, requires even more resources to make including a rare, hard to find item
One thing that needs to change beyond just number tweaks of our current system is what is offered at the different levels of progression. As it stands it's clear that they plan on changing things in the future just by doing simple math (Novice 1-9, Apprentice 10-19, Journeyman 20-29, Master 30-39, Grandmaster 40-49, ??? 50?) Here is what I propose how they should change each level of a craft to what they will offer you.
Novice: Initiate (1-9). Only T1 type of gear can be made here.
Apprentice: Initiate, Adept (1-20) Only T1 type of gear can be made here
Journeyman: Initiate, Adept, Radiant, Divine (1-40) Only T1 up to Divine and T2 type of gear can be made here up to Radiant.
Master: Initiate, Adept, Radiant, Divine, Exhalted (1-50) Only T1 and T2 type of gear can be made here up to Exhalted
Grandmaster: Everything. Only here will T3 gear be able to be made.
One of the concerns that people have stated is that it's too difficult for crafters to keep up with the progression of the adventures. By expanding the level ranges of gear that crafters can make this will help them stay relevant for longer while the rest of the game develops around them.
Another change I'd like to see happen to the crafting system (which also would apply to gathering) is that the promotion to a new level require some sort of test. Gatherers need to find specific item, Crafters need to make a specific item relevant to the level they wish to advance to. I'm sure this is something that was already planned and our current system is just place holder, I just wanted it said.
If you noticed, I didn't include processing professions in with the other two. There is a reason for that. That is because I feel like processing needs to get absorbed into the crafting professions. With that, Cooking Animal Husbandry, and Alchemy should be relabeled as crafting professions. Here is a list of which crafting professions I would move the processing professions to.
Armorsmithing ===> Metalworking
Weaponsmithing ==> Metalworking
Carpentry ========> Lumbermilling
Leatherworking ====> Tanning
Jeweler ==========> Stoneworking
Tailoring ==========> Weaving
Animal Husbandry ==> Farming
I understand that the vision for the game is to make it so that no one person should be able to do everything by themselves, but removing 6 of the current 22 professions will not be such a huge change that will make it so that someone is less likely to have to rely on others to get things done. On top of this it plays into the fantasy of being the grandmaster at a craft. To say that a grand master Tailor doesn't know the finer workings of now weaving works, just doesn't make any sense. Or how a leatherworker doesn't know how to treat their own leather. True masters of the craft would know how to do every level of the process. On top of that... I highly doubt people have a dream of being "The grand master wool spinner!" or "Bad ass rock tumbler!"
The reason I'd like the 'removal' of these professions is that as it stands, you have to rely TOO much on others just to do one thing. At the novice/apprentice stage it isn't bad since you can do that yourself. But once you get into Journeyman you can and there are so many steps to get one thing done, you end up needing to rely too much on others just to do 1 profession it's more of an annoyance than a social experience.
Even if you got all 5 of your characters Max Level and Grand Master in 2 professions that would only leave 10 of the remaining 16 that you could achieve by yourself. To be perfectly frank with you. If someone wanted to devote that much time and energy with how much of a grind it's expected to take to get that far... I feel like that's a reward that that individual should get. What's the percentage of people who would actually do that? I am willing to wager it's very low in the single digit of percentage of the player base, if not 0.# % that anyone would do that.
======================Gathering========================
Honestly I don't have a lot of criticism here. They already announced they are fixing the static node rarity that got accidently put back in with the rarity cluster update and that Hunting is just placeholder and will get revamped in time, so here I'm mostly okay with what's gong on here.
There are a few changes I'd like to see done with gathering though.
1.) Gathering stats should be something unlocked with different levels.
Novice: Gathering Exp Unlocked
Apprentice: Gathering Rarity Unlocked
Journeyman: Gathering Speed Unlocked
Master: Gathering Quantity Unlocked
Grandmaster: Something special?
What I mean with this is at the Novice stage, the only gathering stat you can benefit from is Gathering Exp. Not only that any gear you may get at this level will only have Gathering Exp as a stat. At Apprentice, the gear will now have Gathering Rarity on it and you may benefit from this now. Etc, Etc...
2.) Increasing your rank you gain a flat amount of gathering stats
Leveling up to the Apprentice level will now give you a flat amount of extra Rarity. Leveling up to Journeyman gives a flat amount of extra Rarity AND Speed. Etc, Etc.. This will incentivize people to advance in a gathering profession rather than just stay a novice and collect low level materials to sell on the market place. While it will still be possible for novice gatherers to collect uncommon or better rarity resources, it will be extremely rare/unlikely for them until they become Apprentice and much more common once you become Journeyman and beyond. So on and so forth with the other levels of the profession.
This adds more of an identity to gatherers and helps them stand out verses other players.
======================Money Making Options========================
1.)Crates
I'm not terribly upset with this system there is just one change I'd like introduced. I think that running crates should be limited to 1 crate per day per type of crate. Right now Crates are just a way to print money with little risk. If you put a cap on how many that could be ran, you would have less inflation in the game.
2.) Caravans
Bugs and Exploits aside, these I have little problem with. I do think that there either needs to be an item or system in place that makes it easier to find where caravans being run. Also while making a module for your caravan to help make it more stealthy. Caravans should be a dangerous endeavor for the amount of rewards you can get out of them. People should have to either get defenders or mob up and make large caravan envoys for protection. It shouldn't be something you can just safely do. That's not to say if it's the middle of the day and people run solo caravans with the risk of getting gank being super low shouldn't be possible, but there should ALWAYS be some danger when running a caravan. If you want safety... run a Crate.
3.) Glint Grind
I feel like this is in a good state. I like the option of just killing mobs getting glint maybe something like droppings or the rare piece of white gear.
4.) Gathering
I've already talked about this in the previous section, outside the changes I suggested I think this is a good way to make money selling to other players or just to a vendor for 1s per stack of most items.
======================Trading========================
I love the addition of the item search in the market place, along with the rarity setting. I just feel like the market place needs to be improved upon more. Something like making all market places within a vassal network be linked. There is too much lag when people afk congregate in the city and the mentality of players everyone seems to just want to buy/sell in the same place instead of trying to create markets in every node. I think this will help spread out the player base more and give more life to other nodes within a region.
Despite how convenient and nice the marketplace is, people still use /trade chat so people willing to make deals and do in person trading still is plentiful. Especially with player shops coming eventually I really don't think linking market places will make the game less social, not to mention the profit that can be made by traveling between the Anvils and the Riverlands to trade.
======================Closing Thoughts========================
I know this was a lot but I just wanted to get all my thoughts out there as I feel like these changes will drastically improve the economy of the game and make the experience of the economy be more positive than what it currently is at. Lowering the barrier to entry into crafting by reducing crafting/processing costs along with the extra cost of being so reliant on others to get things processed by combining the processing jobs into the crafting jobs will make the crafting experience more enjoyable and attractive to more players while not eliminating all reliance on other players. Also the changes to the gathering system proposed should add more of an identity to gatherers and more of an attraction to open up the potential of hardcore dedicated gatherers.
2
Comments
1. the gear level crafters can make from what you've shown seems to be more limiting. Right now players at each level of artisanship can make the lower grade(level0-9 is grade 1) it just isn't as useful outside leveling the artisan level further. Since the cost to make higher grade and tier is so exponentially expensive.
Ex. an Apprentice crafter can make both all of grade 1 and grade 2 and all three tiers within both.
2. The current situation with processors does have an issue and that the definition of gameplay for a processor is lacking. Though the way they fit into the economy has been put forward. What I'm saying is processors unlike crafters are supposed to generally exist in freeholds basically running the place. While crafters are for Settlements. The gameplay loop is while crafters make the finish product are leaning towards having some creative freedom, the definition of processing is very shallow right now outside RP and being a time sink of just put material in get material out. No real determined effect you can have as a processor.
3.As for learning new stats as you level a gathering I feel like there also needs to be personal growth inside each level bracket. The skill tree being unfinished doesn't help but the could be a couple more stats to look at. Like having a proximity radar ping you from time to time as you hit JM level. Just a few more things they need to determine stat wise for artisans.
For Point 1. I understand that as it stands Novice crafters can make T1-T3 Novice gear. I am proposing a change to that. Steven/Intrepid's goal is intended to glorify crafters. With the current system it doesn't really do that. So my intention with the changed I proposed is that if you want the best gear for a level, you have to go to the best crafters, which are Grand Master.
For Point 2. I legit don't know what you are talking about, I'm sorry.
For Point 3. That's a fair point, I forgot crafter will be getting a skill tree. But even still, I think this change will help with the problem that Novice gatherers can monoploize legendary gear at the moment which is insane.
1. I understood you where trying to limit what each level of crafter can make, but wasn't sure hat you were trying to do by limiting it. Also I do disagree with limiting level's below grandmaster crafters from T3 mainly because we have limited GM slots and people will have crafting in a Master or JM slot because their GM slots are filled with other stuff.
With GM's making the best stuff only what do players with this limitation have to do in late game economy. This is actually a problem I think Intrepid will need to address eventually.
2. For this one you were talking about eliminating the processing section and adding it into crafting itself. My point was there are difference's for how processing and crafting are supposed to function. Though we need better defined gameplay for processing than put it on and walk away.
3. Not sure what you mean novice gatherer's monopolizing legendary gear. Though we do agree the skill progression and expression with gathering is a problem. Like I said I want more stats for gathering and artisans in general.