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(Dev Team) Why did you choose tab targeting?

I'm curious about the design philosophy that drove the dev team to choose tab targeting in an MMORPG market that has many, MANY, well established games with almost perfected tab targeting systems already.

Of the 2 primary combat systems you see nowadays, I prefer tab targeting over action combat. Tab targeting enables precise mechanics design as well as clearly defined roles with the opportunity to develop and execute complex strategies. As a former top 50 World of Warcraft raider, I prefer this to the chaos that is action combat.

But that's me, what drove you, the dev team, to choose tab targeting over action combat? Can we expect to see hit competitive level raiding the like of world of warcraft in AoC?

Comments

  • Why not making all 3 types of targeting?

    Lock-On Target,
    Click To Move
    Free Aiming
  • tab targeting is fine to me an the right thing for a mmorpg, if u like skillshots go play mobas thats the better genre for it
  • I personly don't mind tab targeting system which you can find in the most popular MMOs. Of course, I have no problems with a system like in ESO it is really cool too, it is a little bit more action oriented but still nice.

    Developers will discuss tab targeting in months to come I think.

    A lot of people consider "tab-target" quite an outdated form of combat, and that a fluid action-based combat is a better direction for games to go in. What're your thoughts on the current combat system?
    <em>In regards to tab targeting, while our combat system is not completely fleshed out, I can say that our tab-targeting will involve positioning and mobility and that we will have more in-depth blogs on this system as our development progresses.</em>
  • [quote quote=6962]tab targeting is fine to me an the right thing for a mmorpg, if u like skillshots go play mobas thats the better genre for it

    [/quote]
    ^this
  • 1. It's faster and easier to programm
    2. It's usually way more balanced because of the fact that almost every single MMO that has action combat is pure AoE spam with 1-2 actual "skill-shots" per class whitch usually leads to the problem that range classes are way to strong. The only way to counter this is to give melee classes ridiculous amount of movement and dodge abilities whitch at the end makes some classes complete cancer like Stamina Melee Sorc in ESO / Berserker in Tera or the worst of them all Blader in BDO.
    3. 80% of the MMO playerbase are casual players just like in every single other genre and tab-target makes the game playable for everyone in both PvE and PvP not just the most hardcore or best players. One of the main reasons why WoW is still as popular because everyone is able to play 90% of the content.
  • My main problem with skillshots is: its less relaxing. Thats why I prefer taptargeting.

    I feel like all those action combat, hack'n'shlash, skillshot heavy games always make the game more stressfull. Often instead of 1-2 targets you encounter like walls of enemies and you rarely have to use any strategie to kill these mobs.

    The way the targeting system/combat system works the way of encountering enemies depends on it. Especially in a PvE/PvP environment tap targeting feels way smoother.

    Also a tap targeting system is easier to master then a targetless system - this aint some sort of eport (I'm looking at you moba).
  • Thats why Revelation Online did good job there, they added 3 types of targeting and everyone is happy :)
  • I don't mind tab-targeting although I favour the skill-shotting with my 360 no-scopes #since2000 :D
    Seriously said: No matter what the aiming system will be, I play the game mainly for it's content. A wrong kind of targetting mode will never ruin an otherwise decently built game.
  • [quote quote=6985]1. It’s faster and easier to programm
    2. It’s usually way more balanced because of the fact that almost every single MMO that has action combat is pure AoE spam with 1-2 actual “skill-shots” per class whitch usually leads to the problem that range classes are way to strong. The only way to counter this is to give melee classes ridiculous amount of movement and dodge abilities whitch at the end makes some classes complete cancer like Stamina Melee Sorc in ESO / Berserker in Tera or the worst of them all Blader in BDO.
    3. 80% of the MMO playerbase are casual players just like in every single other genre and tab-target makes the game playable for everyone in both PvE and PvP not just the most hardcore or best players. One of the main reasons why WoW is still as popular because everyone is able to play 90% of the content.

    [/quote]
    1. Not necessarily. It might be easier to program a free aim system because they are starting UE4 which is made for that kind of combat.
    2. balance has nothing to do with whether it's tab target or free aiming.
    3. Just because people are casual doesn't mean they can't learn to aim. With how well shooters sell, it's not hard to imagine that most players who play MMOs also have experience with aiming systems.

    The biggest problem with this argument is the assumptions that if it was not tab target it would have to be like *insert action game here* and ran by players with the best twitch skills which is not true. You could turn any tab target game into a free aim system.

    Yes, content is important but in a MMO, players are a portion of that content. This a competitive game so players will (probably) want a good system to compete in and express skill. The combat system very much matters in this game.
  • Its not completely tab target its supposed to be a hybrid.
  • First its not tab target is action with tab target abilities. Second the game being designed for casuals is not something that is good the game should be designed for the game and maybe the dedicated player base not every normal person who decided to play every once in a while. MMORPGs are not supposed to be casual as its a genre not a game series and they can be vastly different. Also the fact that you want to make the skill ceiling low kills the dedicated playerbase.
  • I don't think they will answer until they have shown us what kind of combat system they are making so we actually have some ground basis to bitch or praise the way they went.
    Until then I will leave my personal opinion like in the other 20 threads about this, it's just tab targeting, the opposite to free aim, there is nothing more to it, tab to target. What really makes the game is the combat system.
    It does not exclude action combat at all, that's just false information.
  • [quote quote=7077]First its not tab target is action with tab target abilities. Second the game being designed for casuals is not something that is good the game should be designed for the game and maybe the dedicated player base not every normal person who decided to play every once in a while. MMORPGs are not supposed to be casual as its a genre not a game series and they can be vastly different. Also the fact that you want to make the skill ceiling low kills the dedicated playerbase.

    [/quote]

    Vin I do agree with you that MMORPGs are not Casual affairs. Yea they should be fun and have a casual feel about them but they should not be made for the weekend warrior like WOW is today. Now that does not mean that Action Combat will bring in a Dedicated playerbase or that Action Combat requires more skills. This is not true at all. Tab Taget if done right can be a very skilled game, problem is you look at WOW and how streamlining everything to the most inept person. Tab Target what it truly does is make it easier to transition in from another game and easier to learn than Action Combat. Action Combat can also become very spammy vs Tab Target if Tab Target is done right.

    I think they are going in the right direction with action tab target.
  • As i said my main problem with true action combat in MMO's has always been the fact that it's ruled by massive AoE spams.

    PvE became a pure Diablo clone aka. pull everything and buttom mash 1 2 3.
    <em>"""i actually miss the days where you had to be carefull to not pull more than 2-3 mobs at the same time"""</em>
    Mass PvP is basically just a question of who has more AoE CC classes.

    If done right it can be a very good system but so far instead of improving true action combat it went more and more into the braindead AoE spam direction in both PvP and PvE.

    On top of that server quality is usually so bad it's not even funny because of all the massive AoE fights the servers cant even handle.

    Best example is actually Tera.. people where in love with the combat system and then once Nexus got released it became a massive slideshow once 100 people started to spam there AoE's all over the place.

    Since then almost every action combat MMO had more and more AoE focus and more and more effects while at the same time Desync and lagg got even worse.
  • I would like to know for sure if this game is going to utilize a dated combat system such as tab-targeting as this will be a deal breaker for me.
    Having a definitive answer would be appreciated.
  • I wouldn't mind having tab targeting as long as it was something similar to Guild Wars 2 where its a hybrid of action combat with dodge rolls and a lot of movement.
  • My 2 cents on tab targeting, i think it is perfectly fine in an mmo. That being said however, in tab target games there tends to be a super huge imbalance leaning towards classes with range. Archers or for example Gunslingers ( in Revelations Online) can wreck your day and you have no escape from them, due to the auto aim. I think if you can craft a combat system that does not allow for that type of cancer, it'll be perfectly fine.

    Age of Wushu, is a good example of a tab target combat mmo. Mind you, they didn't really have super ranged classes.

    So long as everyone has mobility and you do not have 1 class that is able to either a) Close gaps insanely/ run away insanely, or b) auto aim you from range until you're dead with no possible chance of escape.

    I look forward to what this game will become, and am excited to watch it develop.
    ~CB
  • I don't tab targeting, but it has to be revolutionized. Standing in front of your target and pressing keys to hit it is meh..

    There has to be mobility, dodging etc. to make combat more dynamic and action packed. There are games that made good tab target/action hybrids (No, I am not talking about games with 3 combat types to choose what you prefer, but literally games that managed to merge tab target with action combat), so I am quite sure that IntrepidStudios won't go for an outdated tab targeting variant in a brand new game.
  • I Don't mind either, for PvE I prefer tab targeting because it allows for complexity in mastering your abilities to provide the best output, having abilities that work together in a way to end up being able to use another ability that you cant use without. Also having times where you can align the stars in a way when you do everything right, so it feels satisfying and enjoyable.
    Although there are many way to achieve this complexity. Rather then having a bunch of abilities that don't correlate to each other and your just pressing them randomly. Although for PvP I prefer action combat because it seems static to me that if you cant avoid an attack in pvp on tab targeting games, because to me, pvp is more about improvising to the situation, and trying to whats best at the time, and less mastering your abilities to do the most you can do. Although i still like having the complexity in PVP. So I think there is a middle ground, where you can dodge attacks and whatnot, not having your attacks feel delayed. But still being able to target something, while having complexity. Although I would prefer them not going down the roots of some MMOs and trying to have both, but in practice neither of them work out very well.
  • Tab targeting works and it's proven. This isn't call of duty or Halo.
  • I'd rather prefer a solid tab-target system with emphasis on mobility and positioning than any action combat system. You can make a lot out of a tab target system (just keep homing missile effects out of question - for example you can target an enemy but only have a few direct target spells and a few non-direct spells which can be avoided through positioning and timing). I mean technically it's mixing both together but the emphasis should rest on the tab-target system.

    Better implement something that worked well in the past and improve on it than going out and trying to promise the stars and deliver nothing close to it.

    But that's simply my stance on this one given the fact that I played more tab-target mmos than action combat ones.
  • Why not set the two , normaly the mmorpg use a tap-target that its fine but theres a lot of ppl that find it a little stupid in the point of you never miss , or you never can dodge the skills unless you use another skill.
    As a gamer for most of my life lets say 10 years i had seen a lot of games and played even more and the games that used the tab targeting system always had the same problem that its the one i already said in the biggining and for me its not a deal braker but lets say that the use Free Aiming system he can jump pass that problem and make the game more interactive more skill of the player like , but theres ppl that find this system hard or unbalance in classes like archer and etc... but the game should be less smach the butons and more skill in my opinion , so why dont use both or smach them together.
    If its used skills that dont direct hit the target and make a chance to the player evade iven if its hard to evade for me it would be perfeit.
  • Only replying because I got really triggiered by what you said about BDO. Blader is weak, the best class is wizard/witch.
  • <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/tab-target-really/">

    Main Combat thread no need for a new thread</a>
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